Have you ever given up breastfeeding?

[israel]

I have been reading the thread on breastfeeding being so painfull and everyones very helpful comments....I only wish you had all been around when I so wanted to get it right.
To this day I still feel as though there could have been more help for me.
With both my children I so wanted to bf...I have very big bossoms and not very big nipples. It was agony...I would cry with pain...my nipples became cracked and sore and baby just opened up the old wounds every time...eventually drinking blood and milk..horrible!...I tried lanosil..nipple sheild, leaving them to the open air but I eventually got mastitis and I couldn't even bare to hold my babies anymore...In al I struggled for 2 weeks with dd1 and 3 weeks with ds who is now 3...Only when I put both babies on formula did I begin to recover but even to this day I still felt a bit of a failure...However if I had seen anyone else go through what I went through I would have told them to give up sooner.
Has anyone else ever gone through the same and if so, at which point did you decide to stop bf?

TikTok, yes, you have interpreted my garbled nonsense correctly, that is exactly what I meant about b/cancer risk!

My God! Do we live in a land of free speech?
(sorry if I'm hijacking this thread but I have to comment). TikTok, you're being rather aggressive towards a fellow member, aren't you? I quote: "when ZolaPola 'cursed' some people in NCT who (apparently) thought women in pain were wimps and who banged on about breast is best (without being able to say who these 'some' people were!" Haven't read all of the thread, but she did - her NCT antenatal b/f counsellor, and several others posting here had the same experience! These experiences are no criticism of you, surely - as in the service scenarios you and some others gave, service does vary. Its better to agree to disagree and understand that you have a view and others the opposite, so what?? Final point, I also had problems b/f but was eventually able to do so when we got a private b/f counsellor recommended by my midwife.

MissChief, ZolaPola didn't say that she had a breastfeeding counsellor - she said one came to her NCT groups and said that breastfeediing didn't/shouldn't hurt (if positioning etc was right, I would guess) which is hardly a bad thing to say, surely?
I think it is a shame so many people don't get to hear this and so endure pain they don't have to or get put off breastfeeding altogether.

my point was - we should respect opinions others give - zp wasn't offensive- she gave her view like other people did on this topic. Also stories on this page including zps show that a few counselors in NCT have w/o meaning to been insensitive sometimes - expecting & new mums are v.v.likely to get guilty over the smallest thing and b/f counsellors should know this.

I think it can feel offensive when someone slates an organisation you work for and which you know is full of people giving up their free time without pay just to help others. I am sure ZP didn't mean to upset anyone personally, but if you worked for a charity and someone posted to say it was shite and the people who worked for it were callous, you'd probably feel quite upset too - even if absolutely no offence was meant. The NCT is a big organisation full of very different individuals and I am sure that not everyone in it is perfect. In fact, I have taken issue with things said by big cheeses at the NCT (particularly it's IMO obsessive criticism of c-sections for example, which I consider harmful and demoralising for many women) so I suppose I can see both sides.

The c-section thing really bugs me though and I've argued with the chief exec of the NCT about it - she thinks pain is good though, so I don't think we'd ever agree. I think it is exceedingly bad.

tiktok, gave me a shock there!!!Thought you had a mutation you were keeping secret. Must make a note to myself not to check mumsnet after drinking wine!!!

BR

MissChief - I was not objecting to free speech, believe me.

I was not agressive, but I was offended. ZP did not give her views, but instead 'cursed' people.

ZP has not been able to name anyone in NCT who bangs on about breast is best, or thinks women are wimps for expressing pain.

The examples of NCT remarks she gave (from the class) sounded unobjectionable , really.

Of course there are differences in skills and outlook within NCT, but policy and training on bf is pretty consistent and pretty clear.

I think baby-feeding counsellors are experienced and wise. Their experience coupled with their counselling training give them a far greater understanding of the distress of all mothers who seek their assistance than anyone else.

Just one more point ......MissChief you are right when you say expectant and new mothers can be very sensitive, and please, take it as read that all training for NCT workers reflects that. If any trained worker falls short of recognising this in day to day dealings with mothers, then please let the organisation know. All NCT workers work within a supervision system; all are required to update their training and maintain their skills in order to stay registered. There are extremely high standards in place, and one of the reasons is because we know we are dealing with people's feelings ay a vulnerable part of their lives.

The campaigning aspect of NCT work does not involve person-to-person encounters. So when NCT campaigns to make it easier for women to breastfeed when they return to work, this is not the same as saying to an individual woman 'you should breastfeed when you return to work'. When we campaign for better access to the birthplace of choice, and for women to have a straightforward birth, we are not saying to anyone 'you should not have a caesarean'.

Thanks for your comments, aloha and goosey.....aloha, I don't think anyone would say as a blanket statement 'pain is good', but for some people, pain is not as much of an issue in childbirth and other issues, and painless childbirth not something that they feel important. It's personal choice, I feel. Some people are ok to work with the pain of childbirth, and to see it as a positive. Other people think they're crazy and see it wholly as a negative. We're all different.

Ah but Tiktok, that's not true (the bit about 'you should not have a section). The NCT actively campaigns against the right of women to have a section and is fiercely critical of sections. I find it absolutely extraordinary that in one document the NCT says it is important for women to have choice in childbirth, but on the other hand to lobby against sections. There seems to be no understanding that these two statements are contradictory.

I really feel it is such a problem with the NCT that it has this hostility to sections. It does such wonderful work elsewhere - esp, I think, it putting mothers together.

Aloha, this is OT for this thread, so I have started a thread in Childbirth : )

NCT doesn't lobby 'against sections'. It lobbies against the rising section rate, which almost everyone agrees is too high. Women who could have, and who would have preferred to, give birth without a section, end up having one....but all that's on the new thread : )

ks, now I am totally mystified

So, telling people that it is not their fault if bf doesn't work out is making them feel like failures?

I don't get it. It ain't logical!

In fact, what we tend to do in NCT is to explain how breastfeeding can go wrong, try to forearm mothers in classes about the importance of positioning - and yes, say that if it hurts and continues to hurt to get someone who knows what they are looking for to check positioning and attachment, and not to persist with cracks/bleeding because 'that's just what bf is like at first', and to outline sources of support if they need it.

Is it that you don't like hearing breastfeeding is fantastic and wonderful? I don't think you will find eulogising of that sort in NCT materials, though individual experiences of joy and achievement may be acknowledged (and why not?)....there is certainly no assumption it is wonderful for everyone right from the start.

Actually, just like other functions of the human body, breastfeeding is rather wonderful, as is pregnancy, and birth, and human development - we are so amazing, us humans!! But the experience of actually doing all these things is variable.

It's a bit like parenting generally. I think all of us would agree it is wonderful - but the experience of it can go from absolutely totally ecstatic, to absolutely totally demoralising and guilt-making.

ks, you had a birth experience that was horrific and made you sad and frightened of having another baby - that's horrible, and I wish it hadn't happened to you. But I don't understand what NCT classes have to do with that.....is it that your perception of the experience was made worse by the knowledge that for others, birth is positive and life-enhancing? But that's not NCT's fault, surely....the contrast between people's experiences is part of life.

It was a genuine question, ks

I couldn't understand why you said

"But I also think that merely by saying 'If you can't breastfeed, it's not your fault, it's OK' you are setting up a sense of failure for those who can't. "

Your words, and I didn't understand them, except that I guessed for some reason, you felt that to hear good things about breastfeeding made you feel bad about your own experience...I was guessing, please enlighten me, and explain why it's wrong to tell people that a bad experience of breastfeeding is not something to blame themselves for ....as I said, mystifying!

And........?????

I still don't know why you said :

"But I also think that merely by saying 'If you can't breastfeed, it's not your fault, it's OK' you are setting up a sense of failure for those who can't. "

Look at your post ks.

You said something totally illogical which I wanted you to explain.
(this must be boring for other board users, sorry!)
You said "But I also think that merely by saying 'If you can't breastfeed, it's not your fault, it's OK' you are setting up a sense of failure for those who can't. "

And I speculated that you didn't want to hear that bf was wonderful because you'd had a bad experience...or by implication, other people had bad experiences and didn't want to hear bf was wonderful.

Obviously you had a good experience - hurrah!!

But it still doesn't explain why you said "But I also think that merely by saying 'If you can't breastfeed, it's not your fault, it's OK' you are setting up a sense of failure for those who can't. "

My 'And.....?' was waiting for you to explain it.

Phew!

Hi - final bits me, (I hope) - a) as v.new to this & b)lost track of some of the thread as its now v.long! (and hungry and need my lunch!) Must say, its almost becoming an NCT forum - any comment a bit negative is jumped on, I don't think that's fair Its up to the NCT to consistently make it clear what their message is (as outlined comprehensively by TikTok), to be realistic and to be sensitive, surely? Its not the fault of the women if they misunderstand, its the fault of the message. Maybe zolapola(?), stripeymouse (hope names are right) & co needed sensitive treatment & understanding for their heartfelt views & problems on here, not attack. Know what I mean? Poss not so clear as at work at mo... so pls don't lynch me for my views!
And yes, I had mates who went to NCT classes and they DID feel bad to only hear one side of the story re b/f if they had problems with this after the birth (dates & locations tbc!)
TikTok - you sound a v committed & knowledgeable counsellor but sounds like there are a couple of bad eggs around who are too evangelical and others who could be more sensitive if women need to give up.

sorry - meant final bits from me not trying to hijack thread!