Read this shocking article about the damaging effects of formula and the immoral practices of the companies who peddle this junk.

[moondog]

From The Ecologist magazine.

Here.....

Grim reading.

I used a syringe Hunker. There is a great deal of us out here that Moondog set out to wind up. If we cared.
But you ask how do you get the message across without women who choose not to breastfeed complaining about the 'breast is best' thing being rammed down throats. I don't think anyone has on this thread. Its not the issue. It should be just about getting a message across, not being provocative, as that serves to.... provoke the response from this thread maybe?

Yes hunker agree. Although I think I had that with ds3. My midwife and I had a very open and realistic discussion about my chances of increasing my supply with ds3, and decided that given my circumstances it was going to be very near to impossible. We both knew what needed to be done, we could both see that it was going to be very very difficult within my family home. I am grateful to her for being realistic (and she was very pro breastfeeding and very experiences). So even with all that, there will still be people who would like to bfeed and can't.

dd3 was tube fed formula for 24hours.

Aw, LGJ, don't cry.

Look, ladies, we do what we do with the information we have at the time. FWIW, if DS2 had been my first baby and I'd been told I had to top him up with formula because his blood sugars were "dangerously low" (as I was), I probably would have done it.

I'd still be beating myself up about it now - who knows whether bfeeding would have worked after that, how much formula they'd have insisted he have, etc, etc.

As it was, I was well-informed enough to know that he was fine, that I was doing the right thing by refusing and feeding him often, but also letting him sleep to regain energy and his sugar levels did rise and he was utterly fine and never lost an ounce.

But if he'd been my first...I am positive it would've been a different story.

This is why I am all for knowledge - more well-informed pregnant women would keep midwives, health visitors and paediatricians on their toes. I know I challenge health professionals whenever I hear them spouting ridiculousness about bfeeding. A paed on the ward when I had DS2 had never heard of hand-expressing colostrum, for instance - nor had the midwife who brought me the electric pump - useless for colostrum, IME - so I made her get me a syringe, bung and sterile pot so I could hand express. A GP when I was still feeding DS1 at a year old said "but they bite, you know".

I know that not every woman can breastfeed, for a variety of reasons. But I want every woman who wants to to be supported to do so by someone kind, non-judgemental and knowledgeable. Surely that's not too much to ask.

And on that note...DS2's just woken up

but hunker, i don't really think that there are a lot of women (and certainly not on mumsnet, which is after all where the message with the inflammatory title was posted) who 'choose' not to breastfeed. and even if they do, perhaps it is for reasons which are best for their mental wellbeing? (i'm thinking of the example of another poster who mentioned anorexia on another thread.)

i really think that if the NHS were to provide the services that you have mentioned, then the significant percentage of women who try and 'fail' to breastfeed WILL be helped.

but it's not a fear of being seen to 'ram bf'ing down people's throats' that prevents the government from funding this, it's a distinct lack of will. the public health message that breast is best is on every wall of every hospital and doctors' surgery i've ever been in. but as you say, there aren't the support workers available to see the message through and get the stats up.

these are all terribly interesting thoughts, but thanks to moondog's tone in her OP, they haven't been discussed. Which rather brings me back to my point that it was insensitive and unnecessary.

and my baby was mix-fed for 17 weeks, so technically i did breastfeed at least for a while. however, every day from when she was a week old i also polluted my daughter's body with 'junk'. or gave her formula, to stop her from starving...

oh agree completely hunker. But I do get cross being told I could have fed ds3. Yes I could have, if I could have stayed in bed, rested and fed frequently to up my supply. I jusy couldn't do any of that therefore I couldn't up my supply. Do you see what I mean. I mixed fed for a long as possible, and tried to up my supply by expressing (whilst walking around the house ) but ds3 always preferred the bottle once intorduced anyway which added anoether complication, so I expressed for a long as possible.

I'm comfortable with my decision, just get cross with people who think that if I'd only tried a bit harder, or if I;d made time to sit down. Which frankly is impossible when ds1 is around.

1baby1bump and lilypie,
to be fair to moondog, in her OP i think that she was referring to the information contained in the article she was posting as being 'grim', not bottlefeeding itself.

jimjams, I so agree that being told you 'could' have bfed does no good at all. I first found mnet when I stopped bfeeding dd1 and got loads of 'if only you'd had the right advice' which a) I don't think was true and b)just made me feel worse. Just being told it didn't matter if I ffed would have helped enormously.

Whenever i read these thread I just think - ohhhh FFs, just worry about what you're doing and not what other peope are doing.
I am still mix feeding but whenever I buy formula I feel like gettig out a sandwich board notice and hanging it over me saying, "im am still doing a bit of breatfeeding'. Not sure I'd ever have felt liek tghat before mumsnet. Each to their owna nd live and let live. Do what you gotta do. etc etc

Dh had a friend over to stay a few week's ago and he's a med student, and I felt so uncomfortable ffedding in front of him.

As uncomfortable as I felt BF in front on the priest?!!

Some people have expresssed surprise or even exasperation that some mothers might be upset at the thread header - 'I wasn't upset about it', they say; or 'I don't see what the fuss is about - mothers should own their feelings and take responsibilty for them' (I am paraphrasing a bit).

There has also been some idea that objecting to the thread header is to be some sort of apologist for formula manufacturers, or in favour of censoring information.

None of the above views hold water. I think I was right to object to Moondog's thread header (where is she, by the way?) because it was insensitive...just because some people are robust, because they have come to terms with their feeding experience, or never felt bad in the first place, doesn't mean everyone feels that way.

As a breastfeeding counsellor I have listened to far too many women weeping about what went wrong with their bf, and shedding tears about giving formula. Of course at least part of the answer is for support and information to be everywhere, but that doesn't help the weeping women now.

Just as none of us would tell a formula feeding mother she was feeding 'junk' to her face (would we?), we surely should apply the same politeness and care in 'print' on mumsnet, where we know 100 per cent certain there are women who are going through a difficult time at this very moment.

I bfed dd2 sitting on the altar steps of our church during a service, and also whilst leading one myself! My favourite though was when dd2 slurped her way through a sermon then came off with a huge smack!

Yes exactly nearlythree and having a midwife who understood my situation, was very helpful. Having someone who repeatedly told me I needed to take to my bed and rest and feed continuously to up my supply, whilst not apparently noticing that I couldn't actually do that at all would have been very unhelpful.

I think as well being my 3rd helped as I could recognise the difference between my situation then and my situation with my first 2.

yes i agree tiktok.

Yes, jimjams, stopping with ds was so much easier than with dd1 because I could see the bigger picture i.e. I'm a mum of three, not one, and to try and carry on would do none of us any good. My first midwife just piled on the guilt, but with ds a different one told me what a great mum I was for making a brave and correct choice for my family in stopping bf.

oh dear, Moondog...

i so agree, nearlythree. for 17 weeks i expressed, bf'd, bottle fed, was prescribed drugs, compressed fed, ate loads, rested loads, exclusively expressed, exclusively bf'd (DD taken into hospital after that!), went to bfing support groups, had my tits squeezed and pulled about by countless experts, took guinness, took fennel, some other herbal remedies i can't even remember, did yield tests, took dd to cranio-sacral, took hot showers, took cold showers, lay with flannels on my tits etc etc etc. they were so worried that baby had to be weighed every two days, the poor thing.

EVERY time i came up against a health professional they told me that if i had only met them earlier we could have saved my bfing. but each of them had different advice... which i followed slavishly, of course, much to the detriment of my own mental health but luckily not to the detriment of my bond with the baby. only luckily, though, as i must have been a prime candidate for PND.

it turns out that i probably just don't have enough milk-producing cells, or something, because of PCOS. and i was on labetalol for high blood pressure, which may also cause problems. but it too me months to get that information, from the only specialist breastfeeding unit in Scotland.

so yes, i really do think that better support would be good, but from my experience i would say that someone telling me gently to give up might have been a relief. i'm not sure i would have, mind you...

i know i'm not a general case, but breastfeeding and giving their baby formula is a source of terrible stress for some people, and they don't need their stress added to by thoughtless thread titles.

ha ha thomcat, i TOTALLY know how you feel. i used to send DH to buy the Aptamil. On one occasion i remember loudly saying to DD in a cafe, 'now you mustn't waste this lovely milk, poppet, it took mummy a long time to express it.' bollocks, it was formula and i was ashamed. mad, i know, but i really was.

'breastfeeding and giving their baby formula is a source of terrible stress for some people, and they don't need their stress added to by thoughtless thread titles.'
spot on aitch.
I remember how utterly, truly devastated I was when I thought bf might not work out (and I'm sure many MNers, who supported me through it, remember too).

'breastfeeding and giving their baby formula is a source of terrible stress for some people, and they don't need their stress added to by thoughtless thread titles.'

'breastfeeding and giving their baby formula is a source of terrible stress for some people, and they don't need their stress added to by thoughtless thread titles.'

'breastfeeding and giving their baby formula is a source of terrible stress for some people, and they don't need their stress added to by thoughtless thread titles.'

Ooops

How boring was that............a bit like these endless threads.

i am taking that, dear sherlock, as my cue to go to bed...