Read this shocking article about the damaging effects of formula and the immoral practices of the companies who peddle this junk.

[moondog]

From The Ecologist magazine.

Here.....

Grim reading.

No aitch as formula feeder, I was being obtuse, though not that many times obtuse.

Oh honestly.

Of course breastfeeding is best for babies.

Formula companies have done some pretty bad things and are still doing them.

More people should be encouraged to breastfeed. I myself am fiercely pro-breastfeeding wherever possible.

But formula is not 'junk'. It is just not the perfect food for babies. It enables babies to live and in the vast majority of cases thrive.

Yes, it would be great if we still had wet-nurses and vast banks of donor EBM for those women who truly couldn't feed. But we don't.

Wise words from Tiktok (and most others too).

This has made for interesting reading. On all counts.

FWIW - I agree with everything Hunker said.

"early sentiments on the thread that negative aspects of bottle feeding should not be discussed as could lead to guilty feelings for bottle feeding mothers. That's my gripe, really."

That's nolt what anyone was saying.

Sherlocks' post is what people were talking about - and Hunker came in and re-assufred SherlockLGJ that she couldn't ahve done otherwise. No one is talking aout wanting to distort facts,research or education , but you fucking lot cannot shut up, can you? Greenlseeves, F&Z yes, you look like very wet apologists for the sensationalist nature of the OP.

Greensleeves, how dare you challenge Jimjams about her postings on a thread on the subject of which you know nothing? how dare you? You feel free to waltz all over this borad casting out judgement on how other people do things, whether they have chpoice or not...wtf do you know about not having choiuce about whether you can physically breadtfeed, or whether your child will ever speak or inter-act socially?

I've had it with Mn. I'm leaving it to jackals who need ill-judged sensationaliust titles to feed their egos that they at least can do everything perfectly. Anyone with any intelligence can see that it is possible to give information to people who might not realise the benefit of feeding babies themselves without teling people ho had NO CHOICE htat they have wantonly caused mindless damage to their babies.

FWIW - i think Greensleeves and JimJams resolved their differences. I don't see any need to bring it up again. Greensleeves is entitled to question whatever she wants as is JimJams entitled to respond however she feels appropriate.

No disrespect to JimJams, or any of the other lovely posters on the SN boards, but I find this whole "people who do not have SN children can't have an opinion on SN" attitude that is starting to emerge a little condescending of late, quite frankly.

How are people ever going to be able to understand if they are deemed not capable of understanding? iykwim? If I/we could walk a mile in JimJams shoes (sorry to pick on your name again JJ) to understand better, we would. But we can't.

Maybe "junk" in the thread title could be interpretted as the perception and myth that formula and the practice of FF'ding is equivalent to breastmilk, just as good as breastmilk, etc.

Hope you're alright, Moondog.

perhaps, although it doesnot read like that to me, IMO everyone knows Bf is nutritionally the best option but babies don't just need food in order to thrive and if bf is impossible or impacts negatively on the whole family then giving formula and taking an increased risk of ill health in your child but giving them extra love, extra time and a strong family unit is probably preferable to bf with a lower risk but being so stressed it becomes a chore having no time for other children because baby is always latched on or your hubby leaves because he is so far down your list of pririoties- is not really going to help the baby. Any way some of you who have manged bf with a family will probably shout at me and I envy you for managing it but what you feed your baby is not the be all and end all of being a good mother

Moondog - have to agree with the others that the title sucks!

(pardon the pun )

I am cured of my ultra-sensitive reactions to these threads, simply because I know I do the best I can for my kids. It's my standard, they are my kids. Railroading people by upsetting them is no way to change mindsets.

Passionate is good.
Evangelical is not good

Moondog made a mistake and is probably upset and regretting it now. She has given me some good advice and support in the past though and doesn't deserve this bashing

she still hasnt retuned to this one then.

TC - re you post further down. It's spot on. I had varying experiences feeding my children and whilst I started off bf, lack of support alongside other issues mean't that it didn't last long.

At times I think it would have been different if MN had been around then - I would have had more support, better advice, maybe I would have succeeded. But I also think that I would have felt a whole lot worse in some ways because I would have had to justify my decisions too. I'm even beginning to feel a bit crap about it all now and my eldest is 18!

The thread title doesn't bother me though - it's my feelings on the issue that do.

agree it's a horrible thread title with preachy and patronising overtones.

bit like starting a thread with

"SAHM's are fat and lazy"

or "WOHM's don't love their kids"

all unneccesary on a parenting website and helps no-ones confidence.

"how dare you challenge Jimjams about her postings on a thread on the subject of which you know nothing? how dare you?"

1. I didn't - read the thread before you start accusing wildly.

2. You have NO idea what I do/don't know about any topic.

3. What the hell do you mean "how dare you"? MN is a public discussion forum. Jimjams isn't questioning my right to post my opinions, so why are you?. If you don't like other people expressing their views, tough luck.

"wtf do you know about not having choiuce about whether you can physically breadtfeed"

Again, I suggest you take a breath and read the thread. You presume a great deal.

has moondog come back on this?
To be fair, i can imagine how that title was posted in a fit of [anger] after she read the article, it refers to formula as "junk" hence her using it in title..

It definitely makes worrying reading re the quality of formual milk, its lack of regulation and the poor infrastructure of support around new mums as they start to feed.

PARP

Blu, like many others I enjoy and learn from your posts and would be sorry if you stopped posting. I don't see any advantage in continuing a discussion that has become so personal and unpleasant. LGJ knows I have no gripe with her and her choice to do what was right for her and her son. We have made our peace with each other on another on another thread (I do hope I am right here LGJ )

However I think there are many many mothers who do choose not to breastfeed. I have met a lot of them personally in my social and professional life. Only 55% of mothers were breastfeeding their babies aged 1 week at all - not just exclusively - but only 55% of week old babies received any breastmilk whatsoever, in the UK in 2005. I don't think 45% of women are unable to breastfeed at all, and I don't see what is gained by saying otherwise.

I recently visited a friend who had twins (her first babies) and she had wanted to bf but found it v difficult so she was doing mixed feeding but both she and her dh were not happy about this and really felt she should have tried harder with the bf. Babies are 2 mths old. I told her that it might not be too late to pump up supply.

But, both parents looked utterly exhausted and she admitted she was feeling very stressed. She kept saying that "ff isn't as good as bf is it?" and I think she felt quite guilty. I told her that there was no doubt that bf was much better (my own ds1 was bf for a yr and ds2 for just 2mths) but most babies do thrive on ff as well.

I agree that bf is better but I also think that a stressed out, exhausted and guilty-feeling mother is not good for baby. So if ff makes life easier for some people we should just be glad that the option is there.

Personally I think we as a society should be pulling out all the stops to enable every mother to breastfeed. Your friend needed information and help, saadia - practical help. Mothers of new babies are left too much to cope on their own, to deal with the demands of family life, household chores, other employment, older siblings and so on, at a time when all she should be doing is enjoying her baby and breastfeeding. It's all cockeyed.

Just realised that might have sounded like I meant you should have given her practical help, saadia - I mean there should be more help available to new mothers in general, not that you personally should rush round doing everyone's hoovering

Where's moondog??

good question

don't go blu. Its only a thread after all. Even though threads like this are negative, most threads are helpful and informative.

I'll bet almost no-one has actually read the link which moondog inserted because of the inflammatory title. I can't see what this thread has achieved at all except upsetting an awful lot of nice posters. People are entitled to their views of course but I agree wholeheartedly with tiktok in her view that we should employ politeness and care to women who are going through a hard time.