It WAS very childish of me, but I got a dig in at some Formula companies today......

[VeniVidiVickiQV]

Got sent a market research survey today asking me my opinions on formula milk.

So i gave them.....

Hunker, wash your mouth out!

I was in somecrap chemist today and saw a bottle of 'growing up milk' whatever that is.
It was 99p a pint!
Bloody hell.
Inspired by HM can I just mention that I thought they were crafty devious fuckers?

Amazing bit of marketing, though.

If a child is not being bf, cows milk (30p/pint)is fine for babies over twelve months (with the usual caveats about allergies etc).

Funny how there is so much disapproval for so-called "extended breastfeeding" (which can mean anything from 4 months upwards in some people's books), yet people will happily give their babies this artificial crap until they reach the age of three or more. (Crap in the sense that it is completely unnecessary.)

Can I just put a wee word in for formula feeders?? Nothing controversial, I am totally pro-b/f. But we're not all eedjits...I had to accept formula and did quite a bit to make sure we were using one that we were 'happy' with, well, given the circumstances. The marketing crap such as VVV quotes pisses me off too, and actually put me off choosing some formulas. Also, the minute we could switch to cow's milk, we did. I'm not that blissfully happy or ignorant about any of this - and just wanted you to know there are some f/fers who are aware of the issues and not throwing their cash willingly at these companies.

Pruni, I know that is the case, and it makes me cross that mothers who aren't breastfeeding for whatever reason (choice, circumstances, bf went wrong....I don't care and I don't judge) are not able to exercise full consumer choice because the marketing gets in the way of it all.

I know, it's a shitty situation all round, quite often.
Just that this was beginning to look like we f/fers are all being exploited out of sheer ignorance as well as thanks to the companies' marketing methods, so thought I'd add in that some f/fers don't all believe the crap and can see through the marketing hype (but have to buy it anyway).

I know you all know that though.

Can I just say, this thread has been so informative.

Im glad it has been informative too, if not titled in the most appropriate manner.....and in between the occasional spat.....

I have to ff my DD too, the only positive thing about it is that i get it on prescription. Unfortunately that means that the NHS bears the brunt of the outrageous cost of soya formula instead though.

It really gets people going doesn't it - is this a record for the number of posts?

I was completely bottled fed - not any colostrum even for me! I am now 34, pretty healthy and am a solicitor so reasonably bright. So lets forget the "scaremongering shite" about what fate has in store for formula fed babies in the future - there are plenty of us around.

I find it insulting that people believe that mums bottle feed because they are somehow duped by advertisers that it is better than breast. Mums do it because they find it easier to use bottles despite sterilising etc and because they don't have support to get bf right - THAT is the issue, not the advertising.

I find it astonishing that apparently intelligent people can use their own personal experience to counter evidence and research carried out on thousands and thousands of others. Hellywobs, it's wonderful you are healthy but that says nothing about formula feeding in general. There is no need for anyone to scaremonger - the facts are that there are risks with formula feeding. Not all of them will apply to every baby, and some of them may apply to none (though this would be very hard to be sure about).

No one is saying (are they?) that women are duped into thinking formula is better than breastmilk. They are, however, certainly influenced by advertising that it is just as good, or almost the same, and it undermines the choice to breastfeed. Advertising and marketing has an impact on people's behaviour, often in quite subtle, accumulative ways - if this was not so, then formula manufacturers would not bother to spend the zillions they do on it. You can't surely think that the fact manufacturers have 'helplines' which take calls from parents on any subject connected with baby care inluding feeding (actually, including breastfeeding) is nothing to do with a product-related marketing strategy? And that is just one tiny part of what they do.

The point you make about lack of support for breastfeeding is of course correct, and it can certainly be easier in some circumstances to formula feed. No one denies that.

I think that some people are duped into thinking formula is better than breastmilk, not by manufacturers exactly but by history and society. My aunt was explicitly told that formula was better in the 1950s. Her daughters did breastfeed, but they easily could have picked up their mother's basic feeling about it (from what her doctors told her!!), and the message that "it makes no difference" (today's society thinks that).

I have read several people on MN saying things about bottle- v. breast-feeding like "it really doesn't matter"; I think most people firmly believe that.

clop, thats the way alot of people are affected. my mom was highly unsupportive of breast feeding as she was told by a doctor at 8 weeks to formula feed as i wasn't getting enough so from about one week on when i was feeding dd her constant comment was, 'you should give her a bit of formula to make sure she's getting enough', 'you've breast fed now, surely you don't need to keep it up, haven't you done enough now'. she was convinced it was only important at the very beginning as thats what her doctor told her over 20 years ago. luckily i'd done the research to know better but even so it was exhausting constantly defending my choice to bf to people who honestly thought i was creating a rod for my own back fo no good reason.

Oh not this old one about women being more intelligent than to be duped by advertising.

It's not one or two ads that make the difference, it's the constant, drip drip marketing messages, leaflets, advertising, internet marketing, and word of mouth exchange of myths and lies promoted by formula companies, which ad up to the "it doesn't really make that much difference" message.

It's the "it doesn't really make that much difference" message, which is what makes even women who know the benefits of breastfeeding give themselves permission to give up when the other circumstances around them make breastfeeding look hopeless. That, and the lack of support. Even in the face of lack of support, many women would still persevere with bf if the subliminal message of "why are you putting yourself through this hell for such a tiny benefit" wasn't there at the back of their minds. And that message comes directly and indirectly through their ambassadors in the health service and other women, from the bastard formula companies.

It's not a case of intelligence or lack of. I know perfectly intelligent people including members of my own family and relatives who think that formula is the same as bm. The fact they are under this impression is not through stupidity, it's the amazing way in which multinationals are able to influence us through advertising.

I have been buying pathetically expensive moisterising creams for 20 years simply because I believe or have made myself believe that they do what the advertising says they do, preserve youth ! I am now convinced the fact I have relatively nice skin at 38 is because I have good genes not because of the money I have spent !

We can all think of examples of the way we have been exploited by clever adverstising. Formula is just one example, unfortunatley because it is an issue connected to the health of millions of babies, I find the advertising of formula much more objectionable, damaging and even immoral than advertising that gets women to spend millions of £'s on fake creams.

I would consider myself to be well educated and intelligent. However I had little knowledge about babies and was convinved that formula was as good as breastmilk along with being more convenient for me.

In fact convinced is the wrong word, family, friends and the infomercials in the baby mags brainwashed me into not even trying to breastfeed.

2nd time around I was more informed.

Glad to see this is still going

Tiktok, Caligula, i agree with you as usual.

I'v always known breast milk is than formula milk?

I would actually be quite interseted in some information on which brand of formula is the best and the closest to breast milk as i too had to choose at random with Dd1 due to lack of information.

sorry ment 'breast is better than formula'

amyjade - the info (or a lot of it) is in this thread....I know it's rather long but it does have a lot of information about the ingredients of formula, and there is an Italian study comparing formula brands (not a lot of use to us in the UK, but it is still interesting).

I'm sure many of you will have seen this before, but \link{http://www.unicef.org.uk/press/pdf/nct_unicef.pdf\here} is the result of a survey about the advertising of infant formula in the UK, from last year.

Interesting that 60% of respondents believed that they had seen some advertising for formula, despite it being illegal. (I'm assuming they had seen adverts for so-called follow-on milk).

31% believe that the advertisements give the message that infant formula is as good as breastmilk. Even more worryingly, 5% of people believed it was actually better.

Indeed - it was a survey that i was sent that prompted this thread in the first place. Which reminds me, i didnt get my account credited for yet for it...........

'I would actually be quite interseted in some information on which brand of formula is the best and the closest to breast milk as i too had to choose at random '

for me this statement is like asking which planet is actually closer to the Sun, Earth or Mars. With the Sun being breast milk and the Earth and Mars being formula milks. Well, you can say Earth but they are both still bloomin' far away!

the thing is, formula milks are more like each other, irregardless of their claims. not which one is more like breast milk.

We were told by Midwife in NHS antenatal class that all formula milks were pretty much the same, so just buy the cheapest.

I must confess to a bit of curiousity about what makes a "hungrier baby" formula milk different from others. I don't see HOW they can vary the formula to have any more calories per ounce, different amounts of protein, fat, carbohydrates or anything else. So what do they do to satisfy the hungrier baby? Make it less digestible?

yes, make it harder to digest - make something that an immature gut has to work even harder to process into energy.

Zebraz - check out tiktok and bornberry's posts on this thread which explain the difference.

Something to do with casein in some and not others.

kiskidee, So nicely put, thanks!!

and actually formula milks do vary in ingrediants as some contain more fats, protein, iron etc than others some are even organic. what i want to know is which one is the best for my child? the information just isn't out there for mothers who wish to bottlefeed.