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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

It WAS very childish of me, but I got a dig in at some Formula companies today......

613 replies

VeniVidiVickiQV · 04/04/2006 16:55

Got sent a market research survey today asking me my opinions on formula milk.

So i gave them.....WinkGrin

OP posts:
harpsichordcarrier · 07/04/2006 14:55

Rhubarb I do think what you are saying is valid, but I do think also that to have your combination of problems/experiences is unusual. It is not necessarily that new mothers are not told the "truth" about bf, but maybe they need to hear a variety of experiences. Experience is not the "truth" any more than mine is - they are jsut different experiences.

beatie · 07/04/2006 14:55

I alos had the problem of a strong let-down reflex and a baby that pulled off after a few seconds, resulting in a shower of milk reaching a metre or so Shock

It lasted about 8 weeks and then calmed down and I was then able to breastfeed discretely in public. Up to that point, it restricted me a little, in that I'd moved to a new area and wasn't keen to go and meet new people at toddler groups with the risk of squirting some new acquaintance Grin

It didn't stop me going shopping though as I'd time it for the baby sleeping - which she'd do more of when in a pushchair - or else I'd use a feedingroom to feed her if I needed to.

I used a mountain of breastpads though.

BornBerry · 07/04/2006 14:56

ps TikTok for me size mismatch would fall under positioning and attachment as its presence would prevent effective attachment. Thus this wouldnt count as unexplained breast pain as the cause could easily be identified?

BornBerry · 07/04/2006 14:58

Beatie - were you given support and information on how to reduce your flow?

VeniVidiVickiQV · 07/04/2006 14:58

LOL yes - double thickness of breastpads and lots of appropriately placed muslin squares Grin

Rhubarb, the points you make are valid. However, I think this goes back to having enough support when you start b/feeding. I dont think women need to know/have a list of everything that can go wrong.

What they do need is the right amount of back up and support from people who really do know what they are doing should things not go smoothly.

OP posts:
hunkermunker · 07/04/2006 14:59

The burning pain you describe, PT and Rhubarb - could that be let-down pain? It happened to me with DS1 and more strongly with DS2 - it's easing off now, but if DS2 has gone a while without a feed I do sometimes still feel it quite strongly. It bloody hurt in the early weeks.

I too have an abundant supply (9ozs expressed in 20 minutes) - you say there are no ways to manage this so you can feed in public without giving people facefuls (DS2 quite often has droplets of milk in his eyelashes and will often stop to pant after he's satisfied his first hunger...if he's not gagging from the milk practically drowning the poor boy!). However, you can feed one-sided for several feeds in a row - the other side might need a bit expressed at first to prevent engorgement, but it does soon settle down.

I had mastitis this time round and that bloody hurts too.

And for the first two weeks, it was really hard to get DS2 latched on because his mouth was too small and his suck too strong - whichever part of me he got hold of, he'd manage three or four strong sucks before I got him on better (not necessarily right, but more bearable). I just curled my toes and tried not to sob.

And I think of myself as someone who knows how to position a baby, someone who has helped other women to do this in RL and has read more about bfeeding than your average GP (ha!).

MD... Shock at woman who said bottlefeeding takes less time than bfeeding. I had someone say to me as I was feeding DS2 "oh, they're so much more settled on the bottle, aren't they?" Imagine that the other way round?!

tiktok · 07/04/2006 14:59

Excellent point, harpsi....it's never occured to me before, but what you're saying makes sense.

VVV - I have seen babies with little teeny rosebud mouths where there really doesn't seem room for anything like a grown up breast. And yes, we have put that down to a bad 'fit'. It does seem to get better with time.

On the other hand, I have seen the weeniest little 3 pounders get a great latch!!

PinkTulips · 07/04/2006 15:00

tik-tok i forgot to say, my public health nurse watched me do a whole feed after the first few days, checked positioning, how much areola showed above and below, etc, and also examined my nipples after the feed for signs they had been compressed or sucked and couldn't find anything. she concurred with me that it was possible i just had paticularly fragile skin which was being broken by the pressure being exerted by dd's strong suck.

beatie · 07/04/2006 15:01

I think, if more information and personal experiences are to be given to new mothers about breastfeeding, more emphasis has to be gievn to how much better breastfeeding gets after the first 6 weeks/2months. The experience of breastfeeding a newborn and feeding a 4 month old are, in most people's experiences, very different.

How many other people were suprised by how tricky, and in a way annoying, it was to feed a subsequent new baby AFTER they had had the experience of feeding an older baby?

VeniVidiVickiQV · 07/04/2006 15:03

Yes, everyone gazed adoringly at my DD's and DS's beautiful rosebud mouths, and i just gazed and thought..........ouch!

OP posts:
hunkermunker · 07/04/2006 15:03

Yes, I was, Beatie - DS1 self-weaned when I was 5m pregnant with DS2 and I was amazed at how hard it seemed to feed DS2!

hunkermunker · 07/04/2006 15:03

(DS1 was nearly 17mo when he self-weaned btw)

beatie · 07/04/2006 15:04

quote Beatie - were you given support and information on how to reduce your flow? BB

Do you know, it's not something I thought to seek advice over. I assumed it was unavoidable and in one way it was a positive because during those first two months, I managed to express and freeze a lot of breastmilk. I guess my expressing just added to the abundance of milk I was making (Doh! emoticon needed) Grin

hunkermunker · 07/04/2006 15:04

Did I mention he self-weaned? ROFL!

Rhubarb · 07/04/2006 15:06

Can I just say that whilst I am happy to talk about my experiences on here, I wouldn't tell them to a mum considering bf unless she was going through similar things. I did say that I thought it was all worth it.

I also said that whilst I don't believe droning on about the downsides of bf will help anyone, I do believe that a truer account should be made available - but above all, MWs and HVs should be re-trained and made more supportive and a bf counsellor should be available to each and every woman. But now I know I'm dreaming!!!!

Oh and re the strong let-down, that gradually eased off too, but I got pretty good at aiming! Grin

VeniVidiVickiQV · 07/04/2006 15:06

Sorry, what was that about self weaning?

OP posts:
harpsichordcarrier · 07/04/2006 15:07

yes Beatie I absolutely agree
I remember my sister saying to me when I was struggling to get dd1 latched on "in two weeks time you will sticking her up your jumper on the bus" and I clung onto that because she was pretty much right.
I found bf dd2 a cakewalk actually because I hadn't stopped feeding dd1 Smile I apprecaite that isn't for everyone but I didn't have the problems of engorgement/fast let down and nipple soreness that I hed last time. I sometimes idly speculate if women were just meant to start lactating and basically carry on until the menopause. It occurs to me that it makes no evolutionary sense for bf to be as difficult as it seems to be for so many women, and I wonder (idly, speculatively) if that might have something to do with it - having to stop and start with each pregnancy/birth.
or I may be talking balls.

hunkermunker · 07/04/2006 15:08

I'd still have been feeding DS1 if he'd not self-weaned, HC... Grin

(Glad I'm not now though - he'd get biscuit crumbs in my bra, I think...!)

harpsichordcarrier · 07/04/2006 15:10

no good point rhubarb, it is like having a horrific labour. you don't bandy the details about to pregnnt women Smile
I think your dream is soemthing we should get serious about. March. Campaign. All of that. but the political will won't be there whilst the commercial interests of the formula companies continue to have such influence.

Hunker - tell me, did you wean ds1 or did he do it himself? i don't think you have ever mentioned Grin

hunkermunker · 07/04/2006 15:10

Well, what happened was, HC...

He preferred his Tommee Tippee cup!!!

Oh, the shame.

harpsichordcarrier · 07/04/2006 15:11

hunker is it slightly odd do you think tp be so Envy of your milk supply and ability to express

puddle · 07/04/2006 15:11

I was also unprepared for finding my second child harder to feed than my ds (who was a classic 'he knows what he's doing better than I do' sort of feeder). My dd was harder - also you just can't do the sort of things you're advised to with your second child to improve feeding when you already looking after a toddler -I'm thinking of the 'just go back to bed for a few days and build up your milk supply' kind of advice.

So i do think that mothers need spport and advice just as much with subsequent babies as first timers. I got more pain with dd, partly because I was overconfident and also because I wasn't checking the latch properly - I thought I knew what I was doing. My sister (midwife and FANTASTIC health professional, very clued up on b/feeding ) had to sort me out - lucky me to have her.

hunkermunker · 07/04/2006 15:11

ROFL!

I'll post you some.

PinkTulips · 07/04/2006 15:19

lol rhubarb, hit dp in the eye once!

i don't think expectant mothers should be told bf-ing is a torturous experiance, it's not, but i do think if i'd known how hard those first days would be i wouldn't have been as blase about it all pre-birth and might have prepared better. just as an example, having been told pre-birth that my nipples would only crack if dd was positioned wrong i thought to myself 'well that won't happen to me coz i've learned how to position the baby' and laughed at the idea of buying nipple cream as 'i wouldn't need it'. cut to dd being three days old and dp having to go to boots and ask at the counter for nipple cream for me!

tiktok · 07/04/2006 15:38

BB - yes, 'disproportion' would come under the heading of positioning or more accurately perhaps the even broader heading of 'how the nipple and breast are in the mouth'.

I don't think for a moment you are saying 'mothers are doing it wrong', and it's not fair of PT and Rhubarb to say you are saying this. I don't think any serious bf supporter would ever say that to a mother, but the trouble is that is what mothers think they are being told. Given that the baby can't read, or listen to even the most careful of instructions :) then mothers feel it's up to them to get it right and if they can't it's their fault AND IT ISN'T!!!