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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

It WAS very childish of me, but I got a dig in at some Formula companies today......

613 replies

VeniVidiVickiQV · 04/04/2006 16:55

Got sent a market research survey today asking me my opinions on formula milk.

So i gave them.....WinkGrin

OP posts:
chipmonkey · 05/04/2006 00:02

I'm very pro bf but have to say that in the "4th best" argument that 2 of the alternatives are really, really difficult. Hats off to Jabberwocky, Shivs and all the others who have exclusively expressed for months on end, it is hard work! And donated breast milk is not available in your local Tescos. And how many wet nurses do you know?

chipmonkey · 05/04/2006 00:04

HrHQueenofQuotes Shock you can't boss Jools around like that, she's a granny you know!

HRHQueenOfQuotes · 05/04/2006 00:05

yes I can I'm a Queen Grin

chipmonkey · 05/04/2006 00:06

A self-appointed one! Does that count?

HRHQueenOfQuotes · 05/04/2006 00:07

of course it does Grin Wink

Squarer · 05/04/2006 00:10

Ah, sh*t Jools. You forgot bottle fed weasel milk. That has to be better than anything to do with cows milk, and thereby leaves formula in 5th? Surely?

[is that the time? emoticon]

chipmonkey · 05/04/2006 00:14

have to be organic free-range corn-fed weasels though!

Squarer · 05/04/2006 00:24
BornBerry · 05/04/2006 07:37

Quote - what formula is, is an ^alternative' to breast milk.

You have

  1. breast milk (best) and
  2. formula (a good alternative)

End Quote

I would say you have

  1. breast milk (what a baby is designed to eat therefore normal.)
  1. Formula (a substandard alternative)

IMO stating breastmilk as "best" isn't at all accurate. It's not the best or optimum it's simply normal and what babies are intended to eat. Therefore by default anything not "as good" or of lesser quality has to be substandard?

Until formula is a live product like breastmilk (and blood) and contains hormones, cancer fighting cells, antibodies (both blood and gut level), etc etc and is in anyway vaguely comparable to breastmilk (which at the moment its simply not) IMHO it cannot be called a "good alternative". As has been stated it's often the ONLY alternative.

Doing so only misleads mums when making their "choices". Yes formula CAN be lifesaving but its marketing means mums are often palmed off with formula as a "good" choice to excuse terrible information supoprting mums to breastfeed, leaving mums unable to feed and with little other choice!

For those who purely make a choice to formula feed, this is a choice for the parents to make alone but should be done on fact not marketing power.

moondog · 05/04/2006 08:43

JT,calling it fourth best is not for 'effect only' It's true.
If bottlefed mums are happy with their choice then...drinks all around!
If others are 'upset' well so be it.
I get upset by many things.
Children starving to death in the developing world,the amount of plastic I throw away every day,the damage caused by the scores of flights I take every year.

Therefore,I want to know more about such things,not less.

izzybiz · 05/04/2006 09:48

When i had my ds i had breast feeding literally shoved down my throat from every angle. Iwas given leaflets at every appt, there were posters everywhere showing how to breastfeed, not once did anyone try and sell formula milk to me.

I still chose to use formula milk, perhaps all of you will think me a substandard mother, i have absolutely no urge to put a child to my breast. Ive had two children and have bottlefed both, because of this reason.

While i totally agree that breast is best for babies healthwise, i also believe that a happy mother above all, makes a happy baby.
both my children have thrived, i have bonded perfectly well with both of them.
I get annoyed when bottle feeding mothers are made to feel like a lesser person, and like they cant care about their kids as much because of the way they feed them.

I think my kids have been more happy to have a relaxed mum, than one whos forcing herself to do something, because she feels she should.

sorry if ive gone off subject a bit, but i feel strongly about this.

BornBerry · 05/04/2006 10:07

Hi
As I said parents are more than entitled to make their own decision, I personally wouldn't say this makes anyone a substandard mother but then I don't think judging anyone in that fashion is acceptable.

I ff my first two due to a lack of correct information and I was told happy mum etc but you know when I found out some actual facts about formula taken from research and not the back of a formula pack or a formula leaflet, I wasn't that happy. I was angry I hadn't actually been allowed to make a "choice" because I was never in the posession of the true facts on which to base it. To me at that time the statement happy mum was quite insulting because instead of offering me the support I should have had, I was pacified with this statement.

When we are talking about the risks of formula we are looking many years down the line to adult hood, having two ff kids that DOES bother me.

JoolsToo · 05/04/2006 10:08

I have no intention in getting dragged into this same argument again.

Squarer -don't know whether I've misunderstood you but it wasn't me calling it 4th best?

BornBerry
"Until formula ...... IMHO it cannot be called a "good alternative".

Well in your opinion Smile I DO call it a good alternative and will continue to do so. As you rightly state formula has saved countless babies from death - not bad going for a quote unquote, "substandard" product.

moondog Smile my friend! calling it 4th best IS for effect only (I'd love to know who came up with that one, it makes me Grin) - there is breast milk and formula - end of.

LucyJu · 05/04/2006 10:10

So you never saw ads in magazines (for "follow-on" milk, of course)? Nor on TV? Nor saw any leaflets purporting to be about how to feed your baby healthily, but actually sponsored by a formula manufacturer? You never saw - let alone joined - any "baby clubs" run by aforesaid manufacturers? Never called one of their advice lines "run by health professionals and mums"?
And of course, you never saw banks of powdered infant formula in supermarkets and chemists? And the sterilisers, bottles and teats to go with them?
How can you say nobody ever tried to sell you any formula milk? Maybe no-one actually stopped you in the street and accosted you - but, believe me, they tried to sell you this product.

JoolsToo · 05/04/2006 10:11

BB - please don't let it worry you - I have 3 ff kids - all in their 30's. They happy, healthy, slim, don't smoke and 2 have good degrees the other is a police officer.

Of course my family could just be a one off - but somehow I doubt it!

oliveoil · 05/04/2006 10:11

dejavuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

MrsBadger · 05/04/2006 10:17

am late and not joining the debate, but am PMSL at the M&S advert voice saying
'This is not just weasel milk, this is organic free-range corn-fed weasel milk, specially selected for hungrier babies...'

moondog · 05/04/2006 10:27

BornBerry,your post of 10:07 sums it up very well.

Wot,still lurking JT??????

Wink
lockets · 05/04/2006 10:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

GDG · 05/04/2006 10:38

Parpety parp parp

Wierdos

HRHQueenOfQuotes · 05/04/2006 10:43

bornberry - with people with views like yours around it's not suprising so many woman get depressed over the fact that they can't/don't want to breastfeed. They're made to feel they're 'substandard' mothers by giving their children 'substandard' milk.

Of course Jools - you know that anecdotal evidence isn't valid don't you - but I'll add some more - I was breastfed as a baby - am short, and was often ill as a child, by brother was exclusively bottlefed - and he's in his 30's, strapping 6fter and rarely ill.

DS1 - breastfed exclusively - never touched a drop of cows milk until he was 2yrs old (stopped breastfeeding at 14 months though). Was at the dr.s nearly every month with him with chest infections - first Dr.s visit was when he was just 3 weeks old - and he had laryngitis Shock (that was hard - h e couldn't cry and there's me as a first time mum trying to 'learn' my baby's crys and what they meant!). He does now finally (at 5yrs old) seem to have pretty much grown out of them.

DS2 - bottlefed from 5 days (not that he actually had anything from me for those 5days - poor little mite was starving my milk wasn't letting down). Strapping 2yr old with a appetite for half of england can count on one hand the number of Dr.s visits he's had.

oliveoil · 05/04/2006 10:47

dd1 breastfed then bottle fed, angel child.

dd2 breastfed then bottle fed, devil child.

This proves it. Oh yes.

tiktok · 05/04/2006 10:48

Of course mothers should have more information about formula feeding.

HPs are 'not allowed' to recommend brands (although they do, all the time, and it's almost always Milupa because of the massive promotion to hps of this brand - massive because it is less well-established than the other major brands and needs the extra 'boost').

Reason they can't recommend? Nothing to do with suing by the formula makers who would love to be recommended more, but because they do not have the info to recommend one brand above another - there is no independent research that could possibly evaluate the different brands.

I would welcome this research, in fact, because I want mothers who formula feed to be able to choose milks, and not be left floundering, choosing between fluffy-wuffy bunnies on the can, or cutsie-wootsie ducky-wuckies. Or choosing Brand X because that's what their own mum used (even though the formulation might be different nowadays).

There might be some mothers who decide that they don't want synthetic ingredients in their formula - they might prefer prebiotics made from algae rather than fish eyes, for example. Or they might like to know that the high sucrose content of soya formula is probably damaging to their baby's dental health. Or perhaps they might like to know that some speciality formulas have as their main ingredient glucose syrup, or that the 'starch' added to it is actually potato starch. Yum. You can of course check the list of ingredients to get some of this info (that's how I found out about the glucose syrup being the main ingredient in that brand) but the info is not fully there. The potato starch is just 'starch' on the packet list - I know it's potato because I read the manufacturers' info to HPs.

They might like to know the paucity of research that goes into these ingredients, too, and how babies on formula are not followed up to see if these ingredients cause health issues further down the line.

All the advertsing is selective with its facts - that's what advertising does.

Mothers who choose to formula feed are pitifully under-informed and that's a scandal.

Of course there are mothers who have no choice but to formula feed and they deserve as much non-commercial info as they want.

tiktok · 05/04/2006 10:51

QoQ: who is 'making' mothers feel anything?

I have given my kids lots of 'substandard' stuff in their lives, and I am regularly a 'substandard' mother for all sorts of reasons - nothing to do with food, BTW.

No one 'makes' me feel that way.

I don't think anyone equates 'substandard' milk with being a 'substandard' mother - that would be ridiculous.

oliveoil · 05/04/2006 10:52

Is Actimil Milupa?

I used Actimil as that is what was used in hospital and I got some samples. Don't feel brainwashed however.

News on the potato starch, worrying, so you are weaning from day one?