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Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Original poster

It WAS very childish of me, but I got a dig in at some Formula companies today......

613 replies

VeniVidiVickiQV · 04/04/2006 16:55

Got sent a market research survey today asking me my opinions on formula milk.

So i gave them.....WinkGrin

OP posts:
Rhubarb · 07/04/2006 11:50

Bornberry, I have posted on MN about this before, and I'm sorry to disagree with you, but sometimes bf JUST HURTS! I had all sorts of counsellors coming out to me to check on my positioning, the latching, everything, they could find nothing wrong, but it bloody well hurt! Same with ds. And from speaking to other women I know that I am not alone. It is one of the things that nearly stopped me from bf, thinking that I must be doing something wrong, that I'm a failure, all the books said that pain wasn't normal. Then one day I was speaking to an NCT member and she said that she had the same thing, it was wonderful to find someone to talk to about it and it really spurred me on!

Tiktok, I agree that the downsides shouldn't be droned on about, but mothers do need to have some information about the problems that can occur. All the literature on bf are so pro that they might give a sentence or two to mastitis, they make it out to be the mother's fault, and that's it. Statistics show that many women start bf but a large proportion of them stop before the baby is 6 weeks old. So the problem isn't so much getting people to start breastfeeding, it's getting them to continue. If MWs and HVs were more upfront about the potential problems, then perhaps these women wouldn't feel so alone and such a failure when she encounters a problem, and maybe she wouldn't give up.

Chloe55 · 07/04/2006 11:50

Blush - knew I would be Grin However, that actually makes my GP wrong! Shock

BornBerry · 07/04/2006 11:51

I thought mastitis occured from bacteria in baby's mouth transferring through to the milk ducts? If this is the case mastitis cannot be prevented. I may be wrong though End Quote

This is how hospital acquired mastitis is transferred which displays within the first week of birth. Mastitis just means inflamation of the breast therefore can be infectious or not.

\link{http://www.abm.me.uk/mastitis.htm\ABM Mastitis Page} has some good info :)

BornBerry · 07/04/2006 11:53

Rhubard - guess we will have to agree to differ on that one :)

Chloe55 · 07/04/2006 11:54

Soz - I stand corrected Grin

Rhubarb · 07/04/2006 11:54

I do hope that you are not a counsellor BornBerry, I'd hate to think of you telling some new mum that breastfeeding hurts because she is doing something wrong! I cannot agree to differ I'm afraid, I feel very strongly about this!

Eulalia · 07/04/2006 11:56

Thanks Rhubarb for asking. He's got a cold and a slight tummy upset. I htink its wind that he has as I also have somethign similar. Fortunately he's just had a feed (I was fit to burst). Is now nibbling on a few bits of solids so is much better.

There are a lot of medications you can take while breastfeeding. Some women are informed wrongly about this. I can provide more info if you or anyone is interested.

Rhubarb · 07/04/2006 11:57

Eulalia - I think women are wrong informed, period!

Hope he gets better soon!

Chloe55 · 07/04/2006 11:58

I know what you mean Rhubarb - I am actually quite shocked about the amount of incorrect information some of us get by professionals.

BornBerry · 07/04/2006 12:01

QUOTEborn berry, i had 5 nurses, a doctor and the public health nurse check my dd's positioning and they all confirmed that she was latched on perfectly so no it was NOT bad poitioning that caused my nipples to crack.

every woman experiances bf-ing differantly, it's attitudes like this i have a problem with, people spouting useless and misleading info at you while your in agony, basically telling you your doing it wrong, making women feel like they might as well ff seeing as they're not able to bf properly!

not everyone has a smooth ride, it's not fair to assume those of us who don't are doing anything differantly or wrong, some babies like mine feed constantly for the first 6 months so no you don't get a break of a few hours between feeds and if you have overabundant milk at the beginning of a feed it DOES spurt everywhere, not ideal in a restaurant!

please don't spout information you've read in a book at people who've actually experianced the highs AND the lows of bf-ing END QUOTE

5 nurses and a doctor - which one of those was the breastfeeding guru? I had NINE midwives check my latch with LO3 before I saw an IBCLC who resolved the issue.
If you look at the anatomy of the breast and that of the mouth it is IMPOSSIBLE for a baby latched correctly to be placing any pressure/friction to cause damage. Babes often feed frequently though if no attached well too.

I'm not sure pointing out a medically proven fact is spouting useless information at women or making them feel anything. Why should a women just KNOW what to do and be a failiure if she doesnt get it right? Breastfeeding is something learnt by mother AND baby and IMO it is only people providng incomplete support and not resolving an issue that could contribute. NONE of my information is EVER based on assumption, most women dont have an easy ride due to the terrible support.

BornBerry · 07/04/2006 12:02

ok Rhubarb - you provide the evidence based research that breastfeeding hurts when everything else is fine and I will provide the evidence it's impossible. Hows that?

Karmamother · 07/04/2006 12:03

PinkTulips, I have a theory about this. With mums who wish to Bfed & are prepared for a bumpy ride (ie, will soldier on through any difficulties) it doesn't make too much difference if the baby is an easy feeder or one who needs help latching. Bfing will succeed. And obviously, if you're not so determined then the baby's ability to feed will make or break it. Women view these "challenges" differently. Not a criticism, more of an observation.Smile
Tiktok, interestingly, I was recommended by my hv & gp to switch to ff yrs ago as I had pnd & was about to be prescribed ADs. BFing (IMO) meant I was still doing something good for my baby. They had to prescribe a less effective drug that was safe to take.

PinkTulips · 07/04/2006 12:03

born berry, some things have no exlanation. i still don't know why bf-ing was agony for the first few weeks, i can only assume the burning pain i experianced was caused by the milk being sucked so strongly from my breasts and my body being completely unused to the sensation.

like rhubarb i sincerly hope you are not a counsellor, simply a mother lucky enough to have had a smooth ride, because the thought of you spouting this c*p at a frightened, confused new mom in agony revolts me.

Rhubarb · 07/04/2006 12:05

I'm sorry BornBerry but I think you are being very patronising to us mothers who have experienced it and know it is real.

The latching was checked by different MWs and an NCT counsellor, it was fine, same with positioning. I did have a cracked nipple, but that pain was different, this pain was more internal and very sharp. I was told it was because I had light coloured nipples, small auroras, etc etc.

If you are saying that it is impossible, then you are saying that we are lying?

BornBerry · 07/04/2006 12:05

Burning is often caused by Thrush. Sorry but I disagree sometimes there is no explanation. The breast is a highly studied piece of anatomy and we have enough medical information to resolve 99% of pain issues.

Rhubarb · 07/04/2006 12:06

PinkTulips - I forgot about the burning, yes it was a bit like that wasn't it?

FairyMum · 07/04/2006 12:06

I think if you do seek out information about bf, you will come across information that bf typically takes time to establish and the various problems you can have. Yes, it's bloody painful in the beginning. I think it all comes down to information and support, but some women are much better at seeking this out (both before starting bf and during).

LucyJu · 07/04/2006 12:07

Am I right in thinking you can get mastitis even if you don't breastfeed? I'm sure someone told me that thay developed it after giving birth, even though they didn't even try bfing. Or did I remember incorrectly?

BornBerry · 07/04/2006 12:07

How would light coloured nipples and small areolas cause a deep pain in the breast ?!? I'm of course not suggesting your lying, I'm suggesting nobody identified and resolved the issue.

bl0ndie · 07/04/2006 12:07

I know a lot of women find breastfeeding painful and a struggle and of course being aware that breastfeeding is not always easy and that it's a skill you need to learn is important before you give birth. But on the other side, when you're pregnant reading/hearing too much negative things can put you off.

A week before dd was born I bought some formula/bottles/steriliser (at quite a bit of expense) and stored it in the cupboard fully expecting not to be able to breastfeed after everything I heard from friends. But I have been very lucky and not had any problems, and am still breastfeeding 5 months on with no intention to stop in the near future (dd wouldn't let me even if I wanted to Grin. I honestly don't want to antagonise anyone or undermine anybody who has experienced mastitis or pain or a baby not thriving on the breast etc, it just seems sad to me that some women set themselves up for failure when in fact they could enjoy a long and successful experience of breastfeeding.

Rhubarb · 07/04/2006 12:07

No, it was not thrush, that was checked too.

It was something I got with dd and ds and on both occasions, it gradually eased away until at around 8 weeks it became comfortable.

I don't think science knows and explains everything and it is foolish of you to say that it does.

Chloe55 · 07/04/2006 12:09

But in the same respect Blondie - some mums set them up for a wonderful experience and then don't get that either, kinda works both ways.

PinkTulips · 07/04/2006 12:10

karma, your right, the fact that i was determined and had been warned that there could be problems were what kept me bf-ing, but i do wish i'd been better informed as to what those probs could be. i'd been led to believe that any little twinge could be resolved through correct positioning and that simply wasn't true. i feel strongly that it is unfair that so many new moms give up because they feel they must be doing something wrong and therefore the pain won't fade, for some of us the first few weeks just hurt, it fades after a while and feeding becomes enjoyable with no change of position or 'leaning how to do it properly', things just settle down.

moms are told though that it hurts because they're doing it wrong, and given no hope that it might just fade on it's own if they persevere

tiktok · 07/04/2006 12:11

BB and Rhubarb - I have come across many women for whom bf is agony (and it happened to me, too - real agony) and I would never say 'you are doing something wrong'...often, in any case, it's the little darling who won't open wide who's doing something 'wrong' but I wouldn't say that either!!

When I do come across women for whom a change/improvement in positoning and attachment is very hard to achieve (often because of the baby), I hope I show them understanding and support, not criticism.

Very occasionally, I really can't see what's wrong, and everything really does appear to be ok, but the mother is still in pain. She's not cracked or bleeding (which has to be positioning), but it still hurts like anything. I don't assume that there is still some underlying but unobservable difficulty with positioning, though there might be, because I think there is a lot about soreness we still don't know.

So while soreness is almost always caused by something physical going on in the baby's mouth, I would never say this has to be the reason. Sometimes, it's a mystery.

PinkTulips · 07/04/2006 12:14

yes rhubarb a real searing burning pain, you say you got it with no2 aswell? (i'm 22 weeks pregnant with 2nd)

born berry, the pain wasn't thrush with me either, and the cracked nipples wern't due to bad positioning, the nipple was at the back of the throat like it should have been.