It WAS very childish of me, but I got a dig in at some Formula companies today......

[VeniVidiVickiQV]

Got sent a market research survey today asking me my opinions on formula milk.

So i gave them.....

KK most large newsagents/WHSmiths etc offer it. I THINK you can also subscribe to just one edition by ringing them and paying by debit card (the post it out next day delivery)

I just got reading more on the link I posted and noticed this:

The World Health Organization International Code of Marketing of Breast-milk Substitutes requires that parents be informed about the health hazards of unnecessary or improper use of infant formula.

Hmmm did anyone here feel they were informed? What counts as "unnecessary"?

Just looked it up
My,that looks fascinating.Good on them.
It looks like a great magazine.
I'll check it out today.

Thanks for this bornberry.

Thanks BB !

I think that's right bornbeery, it takes more time, effort and resources to support bf - far easier to suggest formula especially as giving formula is the cultural norm.
good point tiktok about HCPs attitudes towards bf mothers. If I hear any formula feeders saying about the disapproval they face for their choice, I always think good lord you should try bf a toddler through pregnancy and then tandem feeding. Disapproval is the very least of it - more like shock, horror and (from EVERY SINGLE midwife and doctor I made the mistake of telling) being told I should stop and that I jsut won't be able to carry on.

In my opinion, breastfeeding rates could be improved by neutral information being made available about formula AND far more information being published about how difficult it can be to breastfeed.

In my experience, I had never even considered feeding formula. I had seen the dewy videos of breastfeeding babies and the correct latch and just assumed that this was going to be the way. How wrong was I?!?!

Think it was probably day 4 when screaming son who refused to latch at all costs just knocked over my entire supply of ebm. The midwife asked me whether I wanted SMA or Cow and Gate as they were the two brands the hospital stocked. I had never even seen the cans to make an assessment of which picture I preferred, so was guided by the midwife. And so, after 8 weeks of expressing for him, I was just so knackered and despondent I switched to formula. At the time, it was almost certainly the right decision for me.

I think neutral information on formula would help mothers to consider breastfeeding in the first place, and I think that informing mothers on how bloody hard breastfeeding can be would assist some mothers to stick with it.

Groundbreaking, I know

I bf for 4 weeks, hated every second of it, ended up with mastitis and in the end just gave up. Now, if I had never entered this site I wouldn't have had anybody advise me to take each day as it comes, be proud of what I had accomplished so far and give me tips on keeping my cool whilst feeding. If I hadn't had that advice then I would have quit after a fortnight. 4 weeks may not seem like a long time for anyone here who enjoys/persevered with bf but I think mn doubled the time I bf for. I would also never have known about what was in formula/different surveys done/pros and cons etc without mn. So, my point is, although I had an excellent midwife who was keen to help me with positioning etc I never had anyone try to encourage me to continue in RL, mum, MIL, DH, nan, doc, hv were all quick to say if it isn't working, switch to formula and so I did. I don't regret my decision as I am much happier now I am not bf but I must admit I do wonder if it will have any longterm effects on my baby. However, DH was ff and he is the healthiest person I know

I agree Squarer - what I found most unhepful in hospital were the signs saying "If bf hurts you are doing it wrong!!!"
(I may be paraphrasing)
luckily I had my mum and sisters to say - yes it can hurt at the beginning until your nipples get used to it. It can make your toes curl for a bit. it can hurt when the let down comes. but that passes and once it is established it will be worth it.
personal experience, and as Chloe says support in RL is what all the money in the world can't buy

Hi Chloe
If something is so hard it's hardly surprising mums are much happier not feeding, I guess the question is why is it allowed to get so hard in the first place. If midwives or even a lactation consultant in hospital could help a mum establish feeding well before she leaves plus tell her what to expect over the coming weeks, couldn't this be avoided?

ps my Nan smoked 40 a day and was the healthiest woman I knew until she died at 90 odd of a non smoking related illness. Unfortunately IMHO anecdotal evidence doesn't equal research.

(sorry for calling you born beery btw )

i tried to bf dd but in the hospital it was pushed on me and dd so much. they held her head prodded about at us and i never got the chance to try myself without some1 there iterfearing. my dd wont even have a cuddle now and i think its cos she was pushed against me so much when she was born. when after 3 days she hadnt eaten a thing i asked for a bottle and they said "well you know she wont ever feed from you again" i now ff and i have the happiest most contented baby i could hope for. however some people make you feel very guilty for not breastfeeding. when i have anoher i will try and bf again but i WILL NOT ask the nurses for help and think i will be able to stand up formyself better.

i know i did what was best for my dd otherwise she would have starved as i had no access to donated milk etc and was told i couldnt express as it wouldnt last.

SS, you had really shit bfeeding support. If I was you, I'd complain to the hospital.

BB - I had actually got to grips with the feeding, I think throughout pg I just thought I was really going to enjoy bf, I was looking forward to it so much. I wasn't prepared for the shock when I felt such a distance between me and ds, and the fact that I was beginning to resent him becasue of it. I can't really explain what I mean but I was almost becoming repulsed by having a baby latched on. But, I think if I had been warned that it wasn't as easy as it looks and that, initially, you may not feel a bond/closeness etc then I might have thought well this is normal, I'm not the only one who isn't enjoying this process and maybe I will, one day, really enjoy this experience. I just couldn't look that far ahead. I think it is really important for mums to know much more about bf, the way it can make you feel at first, how difficult it is and for people to be encouraging as the first few weeks are too difficult to allow you think straight anyway. This is much more important than formula advertisements.

Chloe ~ I think you make an interesting point. It's not just mothers who need infroming about what's in formula milk and who need the one-to-one support from a professional breastfeeding counsellor to help them if they find establishing breastfeeding difficult.

It's the whole country! I, like many others, did not find establishing breastfeeding a walk in the park (both times) but I had a determination to persevere. ADDITIONAL to that I had supportive friends and a very supportive husband and no-one ever uttered the words "why not give her a bottle" to me.

There are many times, during the first few weeks, when I'd have happily conceded if all the IRL messages I was surrounded with were "it's better for you and the baby if you give her formula"

hunker i know it was shocking they were more interested in breastfeeding than letting me try myself and asking them for help if i needed it. i hardly saw a nurse after i switched they just lost interest and wouldn't help me at all even when i asked them

Seriously, SS, I would complain if I was you (I have done this and will be doing it again with the hospital I had the DSs at). If nobody mentions to them they're getting it Very Wrong, they will continue to do so.

Absolutely Starshaker and Hunker. The sad thing is, is that the mw's in your hospital who pushed your baby's head against you and generally shoved you around, probably genuinely believed that they were "supporting" you to breastfeed.

That's the problem with the definition of support.

Starshakeer - tell them how bad it was. Copy and paste the messages you have posted here if you feel short of time.

The 'head ramming' mode of breastfeeding 'help' is appalling, and often leads to worse problems developing in my experience...sometimes they emerge only after the mother has gone home.

Babies either fight at the breast or 'switch off' at the breast, falling asleep as soon as they get on (if they get on at all).

This is (as I see it) the way they protect themselves from a bad experience.

Moondog - your questions about legislation on HVs and others' access to promotional materials.

No, it is not against the law.

It is against the WHO code, which precludes 'health care workers' from taking any 'incentives' from formula milk companies - I think this is the word they use. They may define it further, but it certainly includes the free tat they get for becoming a walking advert for branded formula.

The trinkets they are given include diary covers, pens, post-it notes, mugs, mousemats, fluffy bugs for sticking on your computer ....I have seen midwives walking round at conferences with little yellow ducks, with chocolate ducks. I think it's pathetic.

After a while, an HV sitting in an office with all these cheap baubles around probably stops actively noticing them (while, one assumes, absorbing the brand name all the time) - but what does it say to a mother who goes there for the first time or only occasionally?

I had the head ramming experience the first time and was refused a breast pump despite the fact that the woman in the bed opposite me was using the hospital pump! Looking back I assume that they were more concerned to get my latch working properly but this wasn't made clear to me. I did manage to do some feeds on my own but my supply was seriously affected after 5 days in hospital and as a result had feeding difficulties when I got home. It took 6 weeks to sort breastfeeding (alone).

2nd & 3rd time was easy as my babies were easier. However experiences like I had can put woman off and they may not even bother to try in subsequent pregnancies.

Decided not to stay off the thread just cause someone thinks my posts bizarre (?).

I do feel quite strongly about the whole emotional side of bf versus ff. Someone said how come there isn't any unbiased information on formula - well equally how come there isn't any unbiased info on bf. What we are told are all the positives such as, it doesn't hurt; it's good for baby; can prevent minor allergies; cheaper, etc etc.

Well the downsides of bf are that it can hurt, and no it's nothing to do with latching or positioning, for some women it just hurts until it gets settled down, and that pain can be quite bad!

It's not that convenient - I could never feed in public because my flow came out very quickly causing the baby to pull away and my milk to squirt everything, until I had this sorted I had to feed in private.

It is very restrictive. Unless you are good at expressing, you are tied to your baby whenever they need a feed. You cannot have a night off or even go out for a couple of hours.

Expressing is bloody hard work and not every woman can do it.
Mastitus can happen whether you're a pro breastfeeder or not, and believe me, it ain't pleasant!

I really do think that if you are going to argue for unbiased reports on formula, then the same should be applied to breastfeeding too, and that means reporting it's downsides as well as it's positives.

By the way anyone know how to get my 8 month old to feed - he's a bit under the weather and seems to have gone on a nursing strike. :(

That's exactly what I mean Rhubarb, you hit the nail on the head. We all know breast is best but I could probably count the number of mums I know on one hand who actually knew about all the potential problems when bf before their baby was born and it can be mortifying to find out this information when you are already feeling like crap/in pain from the birth/sleep deprived/suffering from baby blues and in some cases PND. I think it is very sad that it is not explained.

But on the other hand it is equally important that it is not portrayed as being a difficult/painful/impossible process or this will put mums off to start with.

Quite agree Rhubarb - experiencing this at the moment.... I think the big difference is that those things you mention are difficulties/problems for the mother not the baby. Formula can hurt a baby but breast milk will never hurt.

OK its important for mum to be healthy and happy but most of the problems you mention are preventable or fixable at best and at worst are only short term. Motherhood isn't easy whichever way you look at it.... going to write more but baby has just fallen asleep across my lap in rather a bizairre position!