riddled with guilt - i don't like breast feeding

[pommesdeterreetfromageblanc]

My baby is 8 days old and I have been BF her. It has been quite hard as it really hurt me to start. I got some help and it is better now, although my boobs still hurt a lot, especially between feeds. She obviously hasn't got a routine yet but the past few days, she has been feeding 40 min on each boob per feed, plus cluster feeding in the evening for hours and hours (on the plus side she will sleep up to 5 hours). I have been up for 3 hours now, she wants some, then comes off, then sleeps and wakes after 5 min. It is doing my head in.

I am sick of having my boobs out 12 hours a day, leaking everywhere. I am trying to reason with myself as I know it is better for the baby, and for me and everyone says it gets better, but I am not enjoying it, and it is spoiling somewhat my relationship with my baby as I am dreading the next feed and resenting it after a while.

Everyday I contemplate switching to formula.... I want to be able to share the feeding with the dad or family when they come. I have quite a lot of milk so expressing is an option....

Anyone else out there like me :(

Thanks

With my DS I hated breast feeding - it was so stressful and he never got it - I did it until he was 4 months on and off. With DD it is much better. I'd recommend persevering.

The negative points are feeling really sweaty and leaky but also the weight loss is incredible, after seven weeks I'm below my pre-pregnancy weight. When I'm hating it I just visualise the weight loss in terms of packs of butter. Also very convenient and you get more sleep cos you can just stay in bed and grab the baby.

This is such a hard one. I really wasn't personally given any physical info on ff but I do see it is out there. You just have to look for iit. That link by eau rouge is very good actually. I'm impressed that it doesn't begin with 'of course breastfeeding is best but ...'

This is a very real problem though and causes a lot of serious distress. I'm not sure how it can be solved to be honest. I wouldn't want BF to stop being promoted. I did try to relactate when I initially stopped and would try with another baby.

I think it's things like no pictures of bottles being allowed in some centres which doesn't help (love LOVE the mumsnet bottle). And there IS a lot of scaremongering about ff about. There was something about autism on here the other day which I studiously ignored :)

Hey love.

Firstly I'd say that at eight days postpartam, you are likely to hate everything Because your hormones are up in the air, you've just given birth, and are a bit all over the place physically and emotionally.

Secondly the leaking... Well. That's not actually just part of breastfeeding. Even if you stopped right now, you would still leak. Because that's what having a baby does to your body. It does settle down, I promise.

You say your breasts are hurting between feeds - what kind of pain is it?

The early days are so hard, regardless of how you're feeding. Breastfeeding does get easier, and in the long run provides you both with better health, and also better sleep for the time being.

Right now, the reason she is feeding so much is that her tummy is around the size of an egg. So she needs little and often. She's also regulating your supply. Its a good thing, as much as you may be finding it challenging right now.

Sending a hand squeeze and some chocolate your way.

MGN, you say "I think it's things like no pictures of bottles being allowed in some centres which doesn't help" - but that's to combat the iconography of babyhood being equivalent to bottles. One of the challenges of breastfeeding protection and promotion is to try to normalise bf. Mothers who live in 'bubbles' where 'everyone breastfeeds' need to get out more :) In my work I have come across groups of mothers and sub-cultures in the UK where almost literally no one breastfeeds and there are women for whom breastfeeding is almost literally impossible for them to imagine doing.

"And there IS a lot of scaremongering about ff about. There was something about autism on here the other day which I studiously ignored "

Very little 'scaremongering' - you'll remember just how quickly that post about autism was jumped on, and the poster was challenged to say exactly where she had seen the 'evidence'. The 'scaremongering' comes from the 'formula is not poison' people, usually.....they'll go on to say "people tell you your baby will be stupid, fat and riddled with disease if you ff " and similar :)

Pointing out that health outcomes for breastfed babies and ff babies are different and that the stats show that in developed countries as well as developing countries that not breastfeeding has health risks is not 'scaremongering' IMO. And I don't think this is what you mean....so where is the scaremongering coming from?

With respect tiktok, I do not need to get out more. I know that BF is the minority in the population at large. But I am not the population at large, I am an educated, middle class, older first time mother.

It was universally expected by everybody - including me - that of course I would bf. I'm aware that there are millions of women out there who ff - but they aren't my peer group. I am not RL friends with any of them.

You can't have it both ways. In many parts of society, FF is the done thing, and it is very hard to break that open and get the bf message through. In other parts of society - mine - it is the opposite. And while I do not suggest that we need to break the cycle of expectation of bf, I do think we could at least acknowlege that when women keep on BF despite hating it and feeling hideously guilty, it is not just because of personal disappointment. It is because of the expectations all around them.

You make a lot of interesting points Tiktok. As I said, I studiously ignored the autism thread so I didn't see how it turned out. I'm glad it was handled sensibly.

OP - I feel that Tiktok and I have hijacked your thread a little! Sorry! I really hope you're ok and that BF is going better. I have just been writing about my own experiences, thoughts and feelings. And feel that at least I have answered your question 'does anyone else feel the same?'

Yes :)

I hate breastfeeding too. With DD1 I felt guilty. With DD2 I decided from the off to mix ff and expressed breastmilk.

Good point, golden.

OP - yes. I felt just like you. My mum saw how bad it was making me feel, and told me to give my DS a bottle. It was like having the biggest weight lifted from my shoulders.

I felt as if once I had made my peace with FF I had been allowed into a wonderful secret! FF is hardly a secret of course, the supermarkets are full of formula. But I mean the secret that middle class women are allowed to FF and nobody will throw rotten fruit at them in the street :)

I should say my mum is a hard core lentil weaver and breast fed us all back in the day - she isn't the fabled 'wean 'em young' type mother or MIL we hear so much about on here. She just didn't think I should keep doing it when I hated it so much and it was affecting my health.

The early days are hard, really hard. what I found helped was to just embrace the lounging around (assuming this is DC1). I watched film after film and ate lots of yummy food and so my first 6 weeks with DS was a massive lounging session. I will probably never get the chance to lounge and pig out like that ever again. Once you're over the first hurdle, BF is SO much easier in that you have portable comfort wherever you go. I'm still BF Ds now (he's 8months) and yesterday we got stuck in town longer than I expected. he was grouchy so 'oh well' I thought and off we headed to a café, he fed which calmed him for the time being and I had a lovely coffee.

But if you decide not to stick with it, don't feel guilty - your DS has had the best start - every feed counts.

Morris - "With respect tiktok, I do not need to get out more." Sorry, that was a bit of a tease....I didn't mean you individually.

"It was universally expected by everybody - including me - that of course I would bf. I'm aware that there are millions of women out there who ff - but they aren't my peer group. I am not RL friends with any of them."

I know - I'm from that background and expectation as well. I acknowledged the feelings of women in that milieu who end up ff (and fearful of ff, in case they feel that way) in my post of 9.58. Those are genuine feelings, and they come from feeling as if they have 'failed' in these expectations, and they are heart-breaking feelings. I don't minimise them in any way.

I just don't like to see them generalised outwards by some (prob not you) as if everyone had the same expectations. I work with women who struggle hugely to stay breastfeeding against pressures from people who belittle and criticise them for even thinking about breastfeeding.

I think the pressures of expectation from others, the feelings of isolation if you hate breastfeeding in a milieu where you are assumed to want to do it, are not the cause of guilt and disappointment...and the problem here is not lack of ff leaflets or no pictures of bottles in a children's centre, and they would not be resolved in any way if we replaced the bottles and forced women to read 100s of leaflets!

You're right, leaflets and pictures of bottles wouldn't have made a whit of difference to my feelings, or to the expectations of my peer group.

I'd go as far as to say that this might work both ways - the pro-bf ads on the bus (I'm in Scotland) are nice to see, and I recognise their value in general awareness raising, but I shouldn't think they encourage anybody to BF who really wouldn't consider it otherwise.

Do you think that leaflets etc can change hearts and minds if they are pro-bf, but not if they are pro-ff?

OP - as someone else said, on here you will be given lots of support and advice on how to keep breastfeeding.

It is ok, if you want to switch to formula, it's absolutely fine, your baby will be fine and if you are happier then you will be able to bond with and nurture your baby better. How you feed your baby is a small, tiny part of being a mother so please don't feel any pressure to persist if you don't want to. You have done really well, you have given your baby colostrum and the first few days. There is no shame at all in switching to formula - it is easier, not painful, your baby will sleep better and your husband can feed your baby too, which is lovely for all three of you.

Good luck, whatever you decide. But you are a person with valid feelings, not a pawn in the bf/ff game - do what is right for you and your family, not what you wish you were doing. I wish I was a professional violinist, well I'm not but I am happy

I'm actually liking the honesty on this thread. So many mums feel they have to justify why they ff. All sorts of things get trotted out (the classic, low milk supply). I'm glad people are just saying 'I didn't like it'. It's honest.

I didn't much enjoy the first 5/6 months bf at all either. It is leaky and sweaty. You always have a raging thirst. Routine - what routine? But I found it all very hard - baby not sleeping, constant demand on time, clingy baby etc. I'm a determined sort so I got through that bit and after that point bf really was a pleasure. BUT I understand completely if people just don't want to do it just because they don't like it. They'll have more energy to devote on other things - good for them.

HoopdePoop - you're brave! :)

My own DS did sleep better on formula but my anecdote is not data!

Morris I can' quote as on iPhone but your post about being middle class and not realising FF was even an option, then it was like being let into an amazing secret - that is exactly how I felt.

All my NCT friends bf, as we were all meant to, and I felt like such a failure when they were all going on about it. But I was fresh as a daisy after DS was sleeping 12 hours a night from about 8 weeks, fast forward 10 months an the girls still bf-ing are still getting up up to 3 times a night! You tell me that's worth it because of tiny 'different' (read inferior) health outcomes tiktok - I have to disagree. You are very careful not to outright criticise FF aren't you, with the passive aggressive smilies and words like 'different' when you mean inferior.

Morris it's hard to find proper data to say FF babies sleep better, but the FF babies I know are all vastly better sleepers than those who are bf.

I do think there must be huge differences between deprived families and middle class types (apols for clumsy language but yswim) as to bf/FF decisions and attitudes. I really, really wish I'd known FF was a valid option - I actually think it would have made itmore likely I would have persevered with bf. As it was, the bf counsellor in the hosp said mixed feeding 'never worked', an that once I gave formula that was the end of it. It resulted in me giving up before my milk had even come in! I'm happy FF, but am angry with the combination of:

• pressure to bf
• lack of support to bf
• absolute non-existence of support for FF in hospital - I may as well have been lying incapacitated (post c-sec) in a b and b for all the support I got.

If it wasn't for DH, google and 24hr Tesco I would have had a nervous breakdown on the postnatal ward.

Oh come on. That's a bit much to accuse tiktok of being passive agressive. I think her posts are totally sensible. She's always the one that tackles the silly 'ff isn't poison' remarks. She's always said to ff if you want to. But she does also provide support and advice for women who want to contniue bf. There is no contradiciton in this.

Bf and ff are clearly not the same or we wouldn't be having this debate.

Completely agree with hoop... that's my experience too.

For balance I feel I have to add that my gorgeous FF baby girl sleeps like the devil! :) I am seriously sleep deprived right now and keep scouring the sleep boards. She has never slept through (she's 19 weeks). I do the majority of the night feeds as my DH has just started a demanding new job and I want him to feel as well rested as possible.

hello OP. congratulations on your baby.

I hated bf at first. I actually hated most of having a newborn, both times, and BF was a big part of it. But I hated recovering from the birth, bleeding, being overly emotional, having a tiny thing that did nothing but demand stuff all the time, being in pain etc etc. I carried on BF and once we were out of the first few weeks it all got great, and I realised that it wasn't actually the feeding that was the problem, it was the neonate. We all have bits we're better at than others, and for me the first few weeks was rubbish. I loved them so much but just didn't really enjoy them iyswim.

Whatever you decide (which should be based on you and your baby's needs, not on what anybody else thinks) your baby will be just fine. Please don't feel guilty. Motherhood contains too much guilt as it is. I am riddled with it right now because my kids are watching telly while I'm on mumsnet.

Hoop- you seem overly defensive, accusing Tiktok of being passive-aggressive when I think she's being quite diplomatic. What do you think would be a good way of sharing information so that mothers can make an informed decision?

I'm not being passive aggressive, Hoop.

I do say 'different' outcomes if I am speaking generally, because not everyone would agree the outcomes are 'superior/inferior'....for example, ff babies do tend to sleep longer (speaking generally). Is that a 'benefit'? Actually, no, not necessarily, physiologically. But socially, and for some people, it is. I certainly did not say to you that wakefulness is 'worth it' for the 'health benefits' of bf - I wouldn't assume to make that judgement for someone else, and I rather resent you labelling me with that propensity.

I could go into more detail if you wanted, but yes, I am sensitive to the genuine feelings of mothers around this whole issue. This is a talkboard, not an academic conference. Health outcomes of formula feeding are poorer, and on an individual level cannot be predicted but may not always be 'tiny' - not the thread to debate this. But even if the health outcomes were massively, hugely 'different' / 'inferior' for every baby, mothers' preferences and feelings and emotional well-being are an important part of the equation, too.

I have to leap to TikToks defence and say that I think she is being very balanced.

Hoop My EBF DS slept for 5-6 hour stretches from 3 months and 13 hours a night, as did my friends DD, and my other friends DS. You either have a good sleeper or you don't - it's got nothing to do with feeding methods. And yes, you know what FF babies do have worse health outcomes overall - it doesn't mean that every FF baby will have, or that there aren't BF babies with health problems, but it's a scientific trend. Deal with it.

Hoop, you say "it's hard to find proper data to say FF babies sleep better" - no, it's not! There is plenty of data on this....it's not all that dramatic, actually, and actually, there is one study that showed fully bf babies' parents got more sleep than partially bf babies' parents so it's not always clear cut.

Generally speaking, ff babies sleep longer at night than bf babies. It is not predictable in any individual, there are huge variations, and this may not be 100 per cent a good thing.

But the data is there.

And just to add, Hoop, what you are describing is piss-poor maternity care...nothing to do with bf/ff.

To be in that much unrelieved distress on the post-natal ward - and I believe you, and I know you are not unique, either - is horrible.