support thread for FFing or mixed feeding newborns or young babies?

[Shelduck]

I have a ten-day old baby, and i'm looking at having to giving up EBFing and maybe BFing altogether, although still expressing away like mad. Having assumed that BFing would work out, i'm a little unprepared for FFing (and Bottlefeeding expressed milk), and i'm finding the routine a little daunting, quite aside from all the emotional struggle this has involved. I thought i found a support thread but i've lost it now. Can anyone help point me in the direction of some help?!

Shelduck, at 10 days bf problems, even major ones, may be fixable....if this s your preferred option, then share a bit of info and we will try to help :)

Hello!

I am in the same position as you - only one week in and starting to switch to formula. At the moment I am also expressing like mad and will continue until my production reduces. I am also suffering difficulties emotionally as for me this is purely a selfish decision - I hate breast feeding :( the pain and huge planet like breasts; the fussy, frustrated angry unlatching baby - all too hard for me, as well as the jaundice, cluster feeding, not knowing if she is getting enough ... but it was the blood all over my babies cheek and in her mouth and then later in the expressor that put the final nail in the coffin ... but enough of my problems! I have made my decision and must accept that I am going to feel guilty. Women who put up with all this are AMAZING.

In terms of help, bottle feeding really is very straight forward. Just follow the instructions on the box carefully and remember to make up feeds as you go so as to avoid the risk of any unwanted bacteria appearing in the milk. I'm going to buy a milk dispenser, travel bottle warmer / flask etc to make things easier. Those prepreared cartons are very useful and safe too. New borns need 6 feeds at 90mls per day - although it is fine to demand feed I think. Maybe keep a feeding diary? You should be able to ask the health visitor about this, although I have never had much luck with them myself (second baby). I'm sure there are nice, intelligent ones out there though.

Hi shelduck, I have an 8 wo baby and am currently phasing out the expressing in favour of FF, I was Mix feeding from the start as have never been able to get baby to BF, in the end the doctor suggested I stop trying and stopped expressing as I it was just too much of a punishing schedule. I too feel hugely guilty, or maybe regretful is a better word as its not my fault that it didn't work out.

At the beginning we were feeding the baby every three hours, even at night, but now we are demand feeding her, so it's more frequent in the daytime but less at night.

Hi, I have a 14 week old DD (my 3rd DC) and am topping up with formula as she is gaining weight very slowly. I'm so pleased that you have started this thread.

DD was born on the 91st centile then lost 15% of her birthweight by 6 days. We spent 24 hours in hospital on a drip to deal with dehydration.
Tongue tie was diagnosed and snipped on day 11, feeding improved from here on in but her weight fluctuated a little before she started to gain but v slowly so the MW pretty much forced me to top up with formula.

I have struggled (understatement) with how to deal with this as my older DC were exclusively BF and I just seem to get conflicting advice on how much and when to give formula.

I currently give 200ml a day over 3 feeds and only BF through the night. I am trying to keep the volume of formula to as little as possible so as not to expand her stomach too much. I am hoping to EBF eventually and would appreciate any advice to help me do so.

DD has continued to drop down the centiles (in fact, she has just fallen of the bottom of the chart) and only regained her birthweight at 12 weeks. We have seen a paediatrician who is referring us to a dietician. She is otherwise v well and alert, hitting milestones, bright eyed and sleeping well. She's just a bit small.

The stress of all this has been immense, I thought I could just get on with BF since I'd done it twice before but I sometimes feel totally overwhelmed by the stress of having a baby who is not thriving. It has certainly taken away some of the joy of having a gorgeous new baby.

good thread - thanks for starting it.

I have a 5 week old PFB and have been topping up with formula, unless i have had time to express. PFB was not gaining weight and although he onl;y droppped 8% of his BW he was not putting on any weight. I felt forced into topping up with FF and have to say the BF support through the NHS has been totally crap. Any analysis & support we have received has been when we have paid for it.

Thank goodness for Lactation Consultants and the NCT drop in cafes.

I was giving top ups every other daytime feed of 60ml (say 3 or 4 feeds) but then was told to change this to 40 ml every day time feed - say 6 feeds.

He has now gained his BW and been discharged by the MW but she made a big song and dance about it and wanted me to take him to A&E a few days before that - in the end we relied on private medical insurance & had him seen by a paediatrician who said he was fine and to continue feeding him up.

MW made me angry with her A&E suggestion as this felt premature to me as we had just discussed what we thought was the reason for some of the problems.... my milk had not come in properly. It took an LC to diagnose TT, diagnose thrush in both of us and to identify the milk supply issue and suggest ways of solving the problem. MW was useless, which ever one I saw and I saw 2 or 3 over the 4 weeks we were under their care.

In the end she did find me some literature to give to the GP to support my request for a huge dose of domperidone, which had been recommended by the LC.

I can now say that after the weeks of hell i think i can see the light at the end of the tunnel - a time when I wont need the Medela Symphiny double pump on hire sitting in my front room and when i will not need to carry around bottles and cartons of FF. I never expected the problems we have had and I am so disappointed in the support we have received via the NHS. Breast is Best until there is a problem and then the cure all is "FF" with no regard to the knock on effects on milk supply.

I hope my perseverence will pay off but I know my DH and DB are right when they say there must come a time when i bow out and say enough is enough this is not working so it is time to embrace FF and give up EBF. a daunting prospect and one i hope I can avod through the action i have taken.

action taken:
TT snipped
drugs being taken for milk supply
supplemental nursing system ordered to encourage PFB to feel properly at the breast and to feel rewarded by any hard work and so we can stop using the bogttle as it is too easy!
breast compressions throughout all feeds
getting the latch right every time
not giving a dummy
expressing as often as possible to keep breast drained to encourage supply

in the meantime i have cartons of FF & a bottle at the ready! Yesterday he did not seem to need any tops ups, but was grouchy during the day. Today I offered tops ups of FF even when he looked milk drunk - he always too them. Tomorrow I have what i expressed today for top ups.

I am looking forward to a time i can enjoy my PFB without all thid palave!

SirCharles - a palaver, as you say :(

When the dust settles, write to the director of midwives and/or find out who the breastfeeding lead is and write to them, and tell them of your difficulties and the lack of help and how you had to seek sources from the voluntary sector and from private medicine.

The stuff you have been doing sounds entirely appropriate though necessarily complicated - if the right help had been there at the start maybe it would not have got so complicated.

Maybe speak to the LC about a plan to reduce the supplements? I say this because 6 top ups of 40 mls over a day is a lot for a bf baby, even if some of them are breastmilk. Risk is that they gradually take the place of breastfeeding.

SirCharles - so well done for persevering! Can I ask about your experience of using a supplementer? I'm considering getting one to up my supply - like you, LO is currently having formula top-ups which I'm keen to reduce. But I'm worried the supplementer is an enormous faff. How have you found it? Does it work well?

I stopped BFing when my first baby was a couple of weeks old. Couldn't stand the pain, and what put the nail in the coffin was when she was sick after a feed and it came up pink because I was bleeding.
It wasn't my decision to stop - I wanted to perserver, because I felt like I'd be a bad mum if I FF'd and the midwife was putting a lot of pressure on me to carry on, but I used to cry everytime the baby wanted to feed, and started really hating her.
My DH took the decision for me - just went out and bought bottles, formula etc and told me I wasn't to BF any more. It was such a relief that someone had made this decision for me, and me and baby didn't look back from then on (she's now a bright and healthy 17 year old).
I never even tried to BF my second DD. I intended to all through pregnancy, but when it came to the crunch in hospital when she was born, I just couldn't do it. She as also never had a health problem.

I think there is a lot of expectation and pressure to BF. It's not for everyone, and NO-ONE should feel guilty about not being able to do it. We're very fortunate we have an excellent alternative, and if this is the best way for mother and baby to flourish, then that's fine.

Hi everyone. Lovely to hear from you all, and sorry that there are so many emotional struggles going on. Ok - let's see if we can support each other a bit!
mygolden thanks for the advice. Flask sounds like a good idea. The thing we've been mulling overis why the advice has changed so that you have to used boiling water that has cooled to no less than 70 degrees, rather than just boiled water put in the bottle and left to cool in the fridge. Makes it an enormous enormous faff. I can see us making more and more use of the expensive ready made stuff, at least during the night and when out. Expensive, but coukd be worth it.

tea you sound really down. I don't know abount topping up, but Expressing is dead easy although you do have to make time for it - easier said than done. I have an Avent hand pump that was given to me, but apparently hand expressing is the most effective. I got the lactation consultant to show me what to do.

sircharles glad that you're starting to see light at the end of the tunnel. Well done for persevering. You sound really determined, so good for you! Whatever you decide, or whatever route you end up taking, go easy on yourself. Most important thing is that LO is getting fed one way or another, and that enjoys a happy mummy! Have seen the evidence with my own eyes that anxiety massively affects your flow, so stay positive!

phyllis thank you so much for sharing your story. Yes, having the decision hanging over you is one of the worst bits, and i felt much better when i'd made my decision.

Reason for changes in the 'rules' about formula powder is that the powder has bacteria in it (salmonella and a particuarly lethal enterobacter ) which are made less harmful if they are mixed with hot hot hot water - boiling water makes it harder for the powder to dissolve.

Hello ladies, I just wanted to pop back and say that I ordered a book from amazon called top tips for bottle feeding by Clare byam-cook and I'm finding it really sensible and useful. It really covers everything about bottle feeding and how to make it as safe and convenient as possible. I'm still managing to express four to five bottles worth a day but I can feel supply dwindling :-( I tried putting my beautiful girl to the breast yesterday but she was very fussy and wouldn't stay on for more than five minutes. I know I could persevere ...I Phyllis the blood in the mouth is awful - and I have cried in the build up to feeds

This is a brilliant thread :) You are all real bricks for all your hard work!

I always said that if I/LO didn't get the hang of BF in the first 6 weeks, I would switch to formula. I didn't want to pressure myself, after seeing a close friend go through hell, and subsequently resent her child. Things have turned out a little differently.

My LO will be 10 weeks old on Sunday.
I started off BF, but he was a very angry feeder, and would often take 20 minutes just to latch him on, where he would stay for 2 minutes, fall off, and fuss again for 20 minutes. He would pinch and scratch, with his little face going bright red. As a result his weight dropped, and on the 4th day we had to go to hospital, where I was told to top him up with 50ml EBM/formula after every feed.
I expressed like a MAD WOMAN. I produced so much milk, that I didn't need to use formula. I still tried him on the breast at every feed, but by week 2, it really wasn't happening, and my milk was starting to run out. I had to start using formula. But I continued to try to feed him at least 3 times a day, and continued to express, even though I was only get tiny amounts.

This carried on until about week 6, a growth spurt happened, and all of a sudden, we had three days of exclusive BF! I was delighted. He was contented, producing the right amount of nappies etc. Then he started getting angry at the breast again. I didn't BF for about a week after that, and also stopped expressing too.

Then in week 7, I was having a bath with him, and he suddenly latched on all by himself. We'd previously had success with feeding in the bath, but it was a whole new thing for him to root like that, and be able to find the nipple. I was so happy, I sat shock still, and he fed for a good 20 minutes, the longest feed we had EVER had.

Since then, I have been feeding him at least once a day, and in the last few days, I've been BF a lot more. Today we've had 3 successful feeds, and he's also had about 15oz of formula. I'm beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel, but I very much doubt I will ever EBF.

The big problems I had with BF (aside from LO being so angry), was that I felt sad and empty when I fed. Which I still do. I don't feel any bond with him when feeding - I do think I am suffering with PND which doesn't help.

Thank you for starting this thread :)

I am currently mix feeding my DS (9 weeks) after trying and not succeeding in BFing, despite attending numerous BF clinics and having a BF support consultant visiting me at home. After never even thinking that I would be feeding him any other way than BF it was an immense jolt to find out BF is not as straightforward as I thought it to be.

To cut a long story short, I have decided to feed him EBM with FF top ups (after realising I was dreading feeding times with DS). It is not easy, especially when you consciously have to make so many dates with the pump per day - currently I am expressing 5x a day (I used to do it 6x but it just about killed me) but it seems such a shame to just let all this milk dry up. Had I been successful with BF I am sure I would have had enough milk but as it is, DS is getting about 450-500 ml a day, the other 300 ml or so is FF.

I deeply wish I could have established successful BF but there we go. Not sure how long I will keep it up for - I guess for as long as my mental state allows me to. I find it incredibly frustrating that every time I go out with DS I am thinking "How many times have I expressed today?/How many more expressings a day?/Must get back for the next session, as I am petrified of getting mastitis again (I got it when DS was 4 weeks).

Ultimately I am past the guilt trip (although I still get leftover pangs of guilt if I see a woman who is BF in public) as I am now enjoying feeding times with DS - he is a thriving, happy & healthy baby.

Hi
My DS is 2 weeks 3 days old. We are FF and have been from day 1. He was born at 36 weeks and couldn't latch at all. We tried for 2 days but nothing. I did hand express a tiny amount of colostrum but it wasn't enough so he had to have formula by cup on day 1 as he was on the hypoglycaemia pathway.
After 2 days of tears and upset, DS still not having managed to latch and having had 1ml of colostrum I had had enough. H and I decided FF was the way forward - we were both FF and are fine.
I found it very painful and upsetting when my milk came in and I did wonder about expressing. I even rang the infant feeding advisor at the hospital but she wasn't much help so we stuck with FF. My boobs went down after a few days- normal now.
DS had lost 11% of birth weight at 5 days which I put down to the time spent trying to bf and cup feeding. I found this very upsetting, especially as it coincided with my milk coming in/ day 4-5 blues.
We are sticking to cartons for the moment- double the price of powder but less scary risks and very easy. I have read the WHO guidelines and babies born before 37 weeks or under 2 months old are at greater risk. So will stick to cartons until he is 2 months old at least.
FF does have advantages- I feel much happier in myself having my body back. I did feel guilty and upset but really, it wasn't my decision. DS wouldn't latch so it was up to him at the end of the day.
My DH does one of the night feeds so not too sleep deprived. DS is feeding every 3-4 hours but sleeping well and settling in between. Hope it lasts!
Xxxx

Hi all

tiktok yes i've just been pointed towards the guidelines. Doesn't look like there's much of a way around it so may have to resort to ready made stuff, which is the safest. But so expensive.

i don't know about anyone else, but i wish the antenatal information had prepared me more for ff. The "breast is best" stuff is fine, and i have no problem with thme promoting it as much as they do, because bfing is bloody hard and you need all the encouragement you can get. But the amount of work invilved in ffing has come of a bit of a shock, and i wish i had known. Don't think it would have made me more likely to have succeeded in bfing, but it's been one extra stress i coukd have done without.

sarry sounds like feeding has been a real rollercoaster for you. It must make you very unsettled. If you think younhave pnd, please please get some help. i'm also struggling. DS is only 2 weeks old, so early days for me, but i've already felt bad enough that i've asked for some help. Have a hug, and feel free to offload.

balkan i know exactly what you mean about fitting in expressing. It's one more thing to get stressed about finding the time for. I was doung ok-ish but just haven't had the chance today, and i'm totally unable to fit in the crucial night express between 12 and 6 when the prolactin is high, which keeps your milk production up.

blacktreacle good for younfor being so positive!

Apologies for all the typos. Using DH's ipad. Miss being able to use pc, but another thing that's another thing that i have trouble organising now DS has arrived!

SarryB - Have you ever heard of Dysphoric Milk Ejection Reflex (D-MER). This is a condition that means as just your milk ejection reflex (aka let down) hits so does dysphoria (negative emotions - they may be anything from revulsion to depressive thoughts right through to suicidal ideation). The dysphoric thoughts aren't 'real' thoughts in the sense that they aren't what you are really feeling, they are triggered by the hormonal cascade involved in the MER and it's not PND. The website I linked to has ways of dealing with D-MER as well.

If however you feel sad and empty at all other times it may well be PND so would be worth talking to your HV or GP (which ever you feel more comfortable with).

All the best.

TruthSweet that is so interesting - I have been feeling depressed while expressing and was feeling rather worried about it.

Shelduck I'm still feeling quite bad / tearful about the whole thing - mainly I feel like a selfish bitch because the plain truth is I just can't stand breast feeding. It is not enjoyable for me at all. I have been speaking to my mum about it (she fed both me and my brother because she couldn't bear breast feeding either) and DH is very supportive and says it's all up to me. Luckily, he doesn't believe the difference between feeding methods is great enough to warrant people who really struggle to force themselves to continue. If he was to push me towards breast feeding at all it would be genuinely awful as I couldn't bear to let him down and would doubtless continue which I know would be disastrous for my happiness / ability to bond with baby.

FF is a faff but once you are on top of it I'm sure it will be a breeze. I'm still expressing 500 mls a day and topping up with about 300 mls of ff (greedy baby!) but I have to sterilize a lot of bottles as you can imagine! I'm spending so much time expressing that just dealing with bottles is bound to be easier :) I will only be using the cartons when out and about - after reading the book I mentioned I do feel quite confident about preparing bottles at home.

Can I just say that it is clear as crystal that everyone on this thread loves their baby and wants the best for them? The midwife on my ward who first saw that I was struggling with breast feeding told me that the most important thing was to enjoy my baby and that it upset her to see so many women marring the early days with their child crying about breast feeding. I know that for many o these women it will all work out and breast feeding will make them and their babies happy and healthy but I'm trying to remember her advice when I feel down.

You can make them in advance - the second safest way after making up fresh is to make up with hot water + powder then immediately cool and keep at the back of the fridge for a maximum of a couple of days I think (not sure how long exactly) Or keeping water in a thermos means you don't have to wait for the kettle to boil and cool.

Yes - that's the way I'm doing it Bertie and just using cartons when I go out.

truth Thanks for linking to that page...it certainly seems like that may be what I'm suffering with. It gets a little easier each week, but occasionally, I have periods where I feel really awful whilst feeding. Even when my baby is smiling up at me after a feed.

In terms of FF, I boil water, then fill all six bottles that I have to 5oz. I then dipense 5 scoops of powder into six mini pots. That way, I can just tip the pot straight into the cooled water when needed, and it makes it so much easier with night feedings. It also means I can just grab a bottle or two if we're headed out somewhere. I use the Tomme Tippee CTN bottles, with the little breastmilk storage pots that fit inside them.

I'm using Hipp Organic at the minute.

Grr. I thought i posted earlier, but must have lost it. Can't remember what i said, but pretty sure it was insightful and interesting

well, it was supportive at least!

Hello ladies

I thought you might be interested in this website:

www.fearlessformulafeeder.com/

There is some helpful info on there (hard to find decent info on FF IME) and I found reading about other people's experiences very helpful.

I haven't expressed for over 24 hours now and my boobs still don't feel full, so my milk must be well on its way drying up, I'm kind of glad and sorry in even measures.

I've been having the small cartons of ready-made Hipp Organic delivered by amazon, it works out about the same as buying it at the supermarket. I've also bought a dishwasher basket for my bottles to wash them in the machine before sterilising, anything to save a bit of time and hassle!

Hi all
I have been mix feeding my DTs since birth, they are now 7.5 months old and I bf them morning and evening (and inbetween if they won't wait for bottles to cool down!) and express milk for their porridge. I never thought I would get this far, at about 12 weeks I almost gave up but I persevered and hope to continue until I have to go back to work in a few months time.

SarryB, I think the method you describe means you are mixing powder with room temperature water? Its really important to use water that is 70 degrees or more when the powder hits the water. Formula powder is not sterile amd there is a risk of serious illness (salmonella etc) if the water is nor hot enough.

Oh...I don't know if it's any help, but I keep a supply of ice-cubes for adding to the water (in the cup i use to cool the bottle, not IN the bottle) to cool the formula down once made up!

Anyone else got any tips?