support thread for FFing or mixed feeding newborns or young babies?

[Shelduck]

I have a ten-day old baby, and i'm looking at having to giving up EBFing and maybe BFing altogether, although still expressing away like mad. Having assumed that BFing would work out, i'm a little unprepared for FFing (and Bottlefeeding expressed milk), and i'm finding the routine a little daunting, quite aside from all the emotional struggle this has involved. I thought i found a support thread but i've lost it now. Can anyone help point me in the direction of some help?!

Hello everyone, i am currently mix feeding DD who is 10 days old, she breastfeed in recovery with the assistance of a fantastic mw but then i failed to get her to latch whilst on ward so began expressing in hospital ( love medela symphony ) where i was getting between 10-20 mls every 4 hours, and then topping up with formula.

I had a elcs and am recovering well, but had to have an iron transfusion on the 20th because of low HB, so was quite weak and tired, didn't pump at home for a few days, but started up again on day 4 as i was leaking and didn't want to waste the milk.
I managed to express over 100mls from the right breast, but couldn't and still can't get much more than 30-50mls from the left, but i am now pumping every 3-4 hours in the day, but not at night, in the morning i can get about 200-250mls now, and then about 80-100mls each time after that.
Dh is going back to work soon, and tbh i don't think i can maintain the pumping with DD and DS to look after, which makes me feel anxious and depressed tbh.
I am hoping to get DD on to the breast eventually, and had a BfN lady come to my house yesterday to help and see what she could advise, She was great tbh, and is coming again on monday, DD latched on twice with her help, but wouldn't keep on sucking, so we tried nipple shields and DD managed a little feed where she swallowed 3 times which was lovely, and she advised to keep on with the nipple shields in the day, after she's had a little of her EBM but not all of it etc.
Well, this morning DD managed to stay on for 10 mins!! stopping and starting even though i stripped her off, she kept falling asleep, but it felt so good to have her on me.
I am still pumping, and i would say she has about 5 feeds of my milk a day and 3-4 of formula, i just hope i can get her on the breast, even with nipple shields would be lovely.

Hi OTTmumma How are things going now? Noticed you said you were not expressing at night. If you want to maintain your milk supply you do really need to express at least once at night. Highest levels of hormone needed to produce milk etc is present at night.

I know its a complete ball ache expressing but if you could get your partner to do one of the night feeds and you express then that could work.

Are you seeing breast feeding consultant again soon? Really hope it works out for you, keep us updated.

Well, I have finally reduced expressing from 5x a day, then 3x, now maybe 1x-2x a day. Even though this is somehow tinged with sadness that my DS won't be benefitting from my milk anymore, I have noticed a marked difference in my general wellbeing - I feel so much happier and not a slave to the pump.

Hello, I hope you don't mind me just marking my place. So glad this thread exists. Will be back later!

Hi all, haven't caught up properly but hope you're all ok. Am fully formula feeding now as DS was getting frustrated on the breast and it was upsetting us both.

Can't remember who asked but DS has reflux and we've changed to comfort formula thickened with carobel which I got on prescription. Gaviscon didn't work for us & made him constipated. He is a bit more settled but its early days!

Hi guys, you all sound amazing and being wonderful mummies!

I just wanted to put a perspective with a bit more distance across. The first 3 weeks of trying to breastfeed DS were hell. The pain, the hard leaky boobs etc. I just wasnt the person I was before I gave birth and was so unhappy. I changed to formula and felt really guilty and jealous of the other mums in my nct group who were happily breastfeeding their babies. I worried about what I was doing to my DS by not breastfeeding him. However, pretty soon, I realised that we were all so much happier having made the switch that it was totally worth it.

Anyway, fast forward 11 months and DS is about to turn a year and is the happiest, most joyous thing I could wish for, and I am just loving being his mum! I can barely remember who breastfed who for how long in my nct group, and it now wont be long now until DS finishes formula altogether. And I am actually going to miss making up bottles/sterilising because it feels like the end of an era and my little boy is growing up. Those first 3 weeks are just a distant memory!

Please, if breastfeeding is not working for you, do not feel guilty for giving up. Those first few months are so special, and if you think that making the switch will help you, then just arm yourself with the correct formula making info and go for it!

Good luck everyone and enjoy your little ones - they really dont stay little for long (cliche but true!)

I wish this thread had been around when I started ff-ing DS I felt so guilty and judged. I am fine now DS is 8mo and thriving (on solids now, baby-led weaning so bonkers mess but such fun at mealtimes!) but it took months to get over the guilt.

Little one is 5 months on tues 7th August and I think I am finally admitting defeat. He feeds every 2 and a half hours at night and I can't cope with it any longer. He does longer off formula (about 3 and a half hours) but it makes such a difference. I am the walking dead at the mo.

Feel so incredibly sad, I wanted to keep going until at least 9 months, but it is just exhausting and I need to get my life back. Will really miss it, been an eventful journey but we both enjoy our feeding time.

Hi everyone! Good to hear from you all. Thanks for the reassurance doublevodka!

I'm going to have a little whinge. I've made my peace with ffing, but i'm sure it's something that many mums feel guilty about for a long time, and on their behalf, i'm starting to feel a bit miffed about some of the ways i keep coming up against the "breast is best" message. Don't get me wrong, i'm perfectly happy that breastfeeding is promoted to mums-to-be. I would have bfed if i could have, and it's hard, so mums need all the encouragment they can get to keep going. But 6 weeks after i gave birth, i've now made my choice. But i noticed my HV (i.e. someone who sees you quite a while after the birth) had a mother's milk badge on, and i did feel a bit like my nose was being rubbed in it a bit, long after that ship has sailed. Maybe it's to encourage those who are still breastfeeding to keep going? I know many of you are still determined to keep on with the expressing and mixed feeding, or to go from these to full bfing, so perhaps i'm being oversimplistic?

But what really annoyed me was when i looked on the Phillips Avent website for some info on their bottles, and the whole introduction to their classic bottles is as follows: "It is a well-known fact that breast is best and breastmilk contains rich essential nutrients and antibodies needed to promote a baby's growth and immunity. Whilst all healthcare professionals encourage breastfeeding for this very good reason, there may be times when mums make the choice to use bottles to express their milk into."

So no acknowledgement at all that these bottles might be used for ffing (which is clearly what they are mostly used for) and therefore no information or advice you might specifically want in relation to ffing. I know that this isn't the choice of the company, and that there will be restrictions on what they can say or promote - fine by me. But i really wish the various sources of information i came across said: "breastfeeding is best, but another option is formula feeding - to be honest, we'd rather you didn't, but it's one possibility, and this is the information you need about it..." It just feels like breastfeeding is promoted to the extent that it has made a complete taboo of ffing, such that it can't even be mentioned (even by companies who make formula and associated products), in a way that is arguably out of proportion of the relative benefits of bfing as opposed to ffing. This seems cruel to those women who absolutely had no choice in the matter. (Not saying i'm one of them!)

OK whinge over!

There is a sensitive area around support for bf, so that mothers who don't bf for whatever reason who may have feelings about it are not unnecessarily hurt, I agree.

But I'm amazed that the solution is to say ""breastfeeding is best, but another option is formula feeding - to be honest, we'd rather you didn't, but it's one possibility, and this is the information you need about it..."

The Philips Avent thing is almost certainly pure marketing. There is nothing illegal in the UK about promoting or advertising bottles, so my guess is they have decided to target the 'breastfeeding market' with their bottles. Given that everyone knows bottles are used for formula and don't need to be informed of the fact :), they've gone for the expressing mothers' segment and hope they will convince mothers that alongside the pump and related equipment they sell, mothers will buy the 'matching' bottles.

shelduck I agree. Even on the packs of formula it says breast is best. Annoying and a wee bit patronising. Its not like it could have possibly escaped our attention.

What they don't tell you is that formula fills babies up for longer, making it much easier to get baby in a routine. You can monitor what baby is having, hence less panicking about weight and if they are getting enough.

Because you have a better routine, you are likely to be a little less tired or stressed and taking a break is a lot easier because you can hand over baby without worrying if he/she needs feeding any time soon.

You don't get funny looks feeding from a bottle - I find it shocking that people look at you like you have grown another head when breastfeeding.

I could be wrong but I'm sure there are some fairly strict rules over the advertising of 0-6 mths formula? Maybe that has something to do with it?

I have a ds who is nearly 5, he was born after a longish labour, (2nd stage was 3.5 hrs ending in episiotomy and ventouse) and he point blank refused to breastfeed from the word go. I was fairly shellshocked by the whole experience and manged to express for him for about 6 weeks but gave myself huge guilt that lasted at least a year longer. I gave birth to dd 4 weeks ago and had armed myself with all the bf info I could. I ebf her until earlier this week but it has been traumatic to say the least. In 3.5 weeks I have had 2 bouts of mastitis and lost my voice, on top of having hugely damaged nipples and stitches from the birth. I went repeatedly to the bf clinic who were very helpful but we still couldn't get dd to latch properly most of the time and the damage continued to get worse (she was checked for tongue tie). I made the hard decision this week to go on to expressing and ff as dd at 4 weeks old is still under her birthweight (she's tiny, only 7lb5). I feel disappointed and sad but ultimately I am happy to have made the choice as my whole family was being affected. We have been so much happier these last couple of days and hopefully now dd will start to gain weight. I also no longer dread feeding time
A support thread for people making similar kinds of decisions is lovely, Its so nice to know its not just me that has these feelings and problems.

Ninja, it is illegal to advertise infant formula direct to consumers in the UK, true. The law does not apply to bottles.

Mothers who use formula for whatever reason - disastrous or difficult or unpleasant experiences with bf, personal preference, impossibility...whatever - need support and information, just as any other mother does.

They also need understanding, and sensitivity, if they have made the decision to ff and feel sad/bad/let down/negative about it (not all ff mothers feel that way, so it's just as wrong to assume they are feeling upset).

I think you are right about needing some sensitivity and understanding as for some it is a really painful, guilt inducing choice to make. I think we all know breast is best but we can't all manage to breast feed for a whole variety of reasons.

which has made me wonder, which formula is the 'best'? By that I mean which mimics breastmilk the closest? Its very difficult to choose which brand will suit your dc the best.

All regular infant formula is more or less the same.
It has to be, by law.

'Speciality' formula (the ones for infants with special nutritional needs) is also regulated for safety and to check infant growth is not compromised. It is not necessarily 'better' than regular formula though if babies cannot tolerate regular formula, it may be 'better' for them :)

thanks tiktok you seem to be a mine of information!

Hi, just updating, DD has been going on breast every morning with nipple shield and having a good feed from that, about 10-15mins worth, which I love, but she also needs a top up as she falls asleep during the feed. She has about another 1-2 oz of expressed milk from a bottle. Im trying to get her on as often as possible, but need to pairs of hands and DH isn't very forth coming, even though he knows it makes me happy he prefers the bottle because he knows how much she's getting :( . He is very supportive of me expressing, but I font see how I can keep it up for much longer, I'm starting to get anxious about when he goes back to work, how do I keep it up???

OTTMummA, good to hear :)

The biology of it is this: you have to express often (8 times at least in 24 hrs) or your supply will dwindle. At 14-15 days, it's crucial you express frequently including at night, and yes, it is a real pain :(

In addition, you need to ensure she comes to the breast as often as poss, too.

It will help to check in again with the bf helper you had, I think.

I don't believe it, another bout of mastitis here, can't believe its the third in less than a month. I think I will wind down the pumping and slowly go over to exclusive ff as I cannot cope with looking after 2 kids and feeling like this so frequently. Dr has said she will send me for an ultrasound if it shows any signs of coming back.

:( so sad today, I have been expressing every 2-3 hours and my supply is falling :( I'm so tired and feel disappointed, before DD came I really thought we would be EBF at this point, and we are no where near it.

Too soon to see a difference, though, OTT....you should see a difference in a couple of days if you keep going :)

Just a quickie...

Yes, OTT, don't give up just yet if you really do want to keep going. One thing that came to mind when i read your post was the difference anxiety made to how much i could express. If i was feeling relaxed and content, i could produce half a good feed in 10 mins, but if i was feeling anxious, i might not produce anything at all. And at of course led to a vicious circle. So if you're struggling to produce much, then TRY to make sure you're as relaxed as you can be, because it might just help. Much much much easier said than done i know! xxx

How are you all?
I have gone down to just one sometimes two breast feeds a day now. He is also being weaned, it seems to be making a difference to how long he sleeps at night. He managed two four hour sleeps between feeds last night. Happy mummy :)

Hope everyone is enjoying being a mummy to their little treasures x

I have finally stopped expressing altogether 6 days ago. And my mood has immediately picked up considerably. Sometimes I get the feeling of "I have you and you haven't performed what you were designed for" when I look at my breasts but really, I value my mental wellbeing above anything else. Should I ever have another DC I would still have a go at EBF - hopefully without beating myself about it if it doesn't work.

Ninja, so sorry you have ended up with mastitis AGAIN! I got it about 4 weeks after DS was born, to describe it as hell on earth is an understatement, as I ended up with 2 blisters (alongside the usual redness) which took forever to peel off, exposing raw skin underneath.