Newbie questions

[ladyfoucault]

Hello. I am holding my ten day old baby in my arms almost constantly and am too tired to search the forum for relevant answers. Apologies. I am pretty clueless about breastfeeding and what to do with babies - I thought it would come natural ... what a mistake. I am feeling pretty down at the moment - have been since coming home, after a difficult time in hospital. What I crave is a sort of schedule, I know it is not possible to have a tight schedule with babies so young but to be honest, in order for me to feel better I will try anything, even formula.
When we got home, I spent the first few nights with baby in the living room. This was so my partner, who is on paternity leave, would sleep well and be able to take baby off me the next day. Baby was breastfeeding constantly from evening onwards until about 2 am, when he fell asleep and I could put him in his crib. He slept a few hours (3 I think). This got me so down, thinking that this is how my nights would be, and what a life change that is etc, I couldn't sleep whilst baby was sleeping. Next day was the same, baby fed constantly in the evening, fell asleep in the early morning hours, left me knackered and unable to sleep. I have now learned that what baby is doing is probably clusterfeeding and quite normal. My question is: If clusterfeeding, is it possible to take baby to bed when I want it, or will he not sleep until he is done? And that can be until the wee morning hours?
A lady from my NCT class has a slightly older baby (7 weeks) who is breastfed. She takes him to bed at 7 pm, where he stays. How can I achieve this? Is my baby too young for this, or is it a question of how they feed?
I have kept a little diary of the last two days, and found that there was a long stretch between his afternoon sleep and the time he went to bed at night. Is it a question of him being overtired, so that I should not leave too long between sleeps, in order for him to go to bed earlier, or is there no point in that?
My baby feeds in little bits during the day, since 5 am today he has had nine feeds each lasting from 15 mins to 30 mins, with him falling asleep after feed and having a little nap. Is that normal, or excessive?
Regarding my partner taking the baby out, baby is never really off my breast so I can't have a break in the afternoon. Is that normal?
Also, I would like to go out, but if he wants feeding every half an hour, or whenever he wakes up, how can I can I go out?
When baby eventually goes to sleep, I find that changing him wakes him up and makes him alert and wanting to eat again. Is it okay to put him in his crib unchanged?
The last two nights, baby slept with us in the bedroom as a trial. He slept a few hours, woke up because he was wet, needed ten minutes breastfeeding, and then went back to sleep. I swaddled him and gave him a dummy which he took, and spat out after a while but he sucked on it for a while and it helped him to go to sleep. Woke after one hour again with a wet nappy. From then, he started his feeding / sleeping routine which he is still doing currently. My partner is going back to work again, and I feel terrible if he has interrupted sleeps - how do other dads do it? Do most fathers sleep in the same room?

Lots of questions. I hope people are able to give me some advice and kind words - I would be so grateful. Many thanks. x

I think your dh/partner will have to get used to some disrupted sleep. It's just the way it goes. I'm no expert my dd is only 7 wks but we were the same as you. Dd only used to sleep 2-3hrs max at night then feed. It's relentless but you got to remember they only have little tummies. My girl eats n nods off n the nappy change wakes her up so I just let her suckle for 5 mins to send her asleep again. Also if they r eating a lot at night although it's controversial have you thought about co sleeping? Or having them in a basket next to you n feed laying down n put them back when done. As for going out as my dd ate so frequently we stopped in for almost 3 week n got dh/family to do out running around. But after that I thought sod it. If I need to go out or want to I will. Just meant a few stop offs at cafes etc to let her feed.

It will get easier

OP, you are adjusting to being a mother and it is a huge bombshell. You might feel like you are completely lost, that you don't know what you are doing and that you feel like you've bitten off more than you can chew- this is all completely normal, everyone feels like this to start with.

Breastfeeding during the early days can be relentless- you are both learning a new skill and adjusting to your roles. There are some articles here about getting things off to a good start. It sounds as though you are going with the flow and listening to his cues which is fab- as you get to know each other you'll be able to tell what he needs. This takes time though so don't worry if it doesn't happen instantly.

Try not to compare babies. It is useful to meet other babies to see what is normal, but the range of normal can be so big. There's nothing you have done or can do to make a baby sleep- some babies are just more chilled out than others. There are things you can do to cope with it. A lot of mothers find co-sleeping works very well for their families. This is a really good website about how babies sleep and why.

You say you want to go out- do you feel like you're climbing the walls? It might help to take small steps, like a walk around the block, to start with. Your right to breastfeed in public is protected by law but many mothers still feel nervous about it to start with. There are some ideas here about breastfeeding in public and how you can build your confidence.

I think it really helps to meet other breastfeeding mums, if there is an LLL group or Baby Cafe near you then see if you can go along.

Congratulations on your new DS :)

The best advice I was ever given was from a colleague, who had 5 kids.

She told me just to go with the flow for the first 3 months, then think about routine etc. Dd spent about 10 weeks sleeping on me and refusing to go in her basket.

I don't think I'd gone further than the end of the road when my first was 10 days old, just give in: feed, eat chocolate, atch crap telly. My dh struggled when ds was born; he spent the first week back at work sleeping downstairs, but he adjusted.You just do. And if Dh complains about being tired, just raise an eyebrow and list all the thigns you're doing. Eventually just raising an eyebrow wll have the same effect.

Ps, don't worry too much about changing nappies at night. We were more conscientious first time round, but generally, as long as they don't poo, nappies can hold a lot of wee. I certainly wouldn't do a change in the night unless there was a poo; it's just not worth it.

Lady, well done for trying breastfeeeding and don;t be too hasty to give it up. The stage you're at is tough and it will get better. I had no routine for DS1 and I felt like I didn't know whether I was coming or going so I decided thing were going to be different with DS2. I used a book (The Baby Whisperer) who suggesteds a routine (not schedules!) and I found it really helped. I slept in one room with DS2 and DP slept in another room. He came in to help me if things got really difficult but he could get up and get ready for work without disturbing us too.

Getting out of the house does work wonders, even a short walk to the shops/park/church!

Agree with Austr0naut don't change nappies at night unless they poo otherwise they wake up properly at a time when you're trying to teach them the difference between day and night.
Re cluster feeding: yes it's hard work but it may pass and in any event it gave you a three hour break from feeding.
Can you not take him to bed with you say around 9 at night and then doze off while you feed? Has anyone shown you how to feed lying down? It's the best thing ever! Some people don't believe in co sleeping but it makes sense if you're breastfeeding as it's the best way to get some sleep!
Also remember that your hormones all over the place at the moment so it's normal to feel low about staff. It does get better and remember that things change quickly so next week may be just completely different and possibly easier!

I also find that babies want to bf more when you're with them. Btoh dcs would happily go for walks of up to 3 hours in the pram or sling - mainly because they would fall deeply asleep.

Dd is now 6 months old and can go 4 hours without a feed, but often chooses to snack more. She's also at the stage where I can pretty much time when she'll be ready for a feed. It may seem like a million years away at present, but it gets easier more quickly than you think.

Hmmm cornonthecob the baby whisperer routine is not really suitable until they're at least 8 weeks old, is it? Also having dad sleep in another room risks mum getting burnout if she had no other help.

Thank you all. The lying-down feeding sounds good - is it the side-lying one? The thing about the not changing if it is not poo makes sense. Thanks for the links to the different websites. I basically have to bear with having to clusterfeed him from 4pm till whenever he falls asleep - this sounds scary, how long will this go on for? will I ever be able to go out in the evening again?

Sadly, the Baby Whisperer, who knows nothing about bf and whose advice is misleading, has routines starting from 2 or 3 days old, IIRC :(

OP - your baby sounds 100 per cent normal and 100 per cent new :) :)

Your expectations are way way way too high, though, sorry.....your baby's needs and feeding and sleep will change massively as he gets older, day by day, hour by hour at the moment ('cos he is so new), and then week by week and month by month later.

He wakes not because of a wet nappy - babies usually neither know nor care about this (unless they are sore or cold because of it) - but because he is little and needs your closeness and contact and breastmilk. All babies do this.

Best thing you can do is to work out ways your baby's needs can be met with comfort for you - your need for rest and sleep come above your partner's, and you can sleep with your baby in your bed (following safe sleeping rules), and you should not be in the living room. For a start, sofa sharing is risky, and you will not get the rest and sleep you need that way. You should be in bed, and if that makes it harder for your partner, then he will just have to cope, just as all new fathers cope.

Keep your baby close to you, and dont expect him to sleep very long when he is not close to you (cuddled in, with easy access to the breast).

Hope this helps - any of the breastfeeding helplines can also offer support.

olimpia, I thought I remembered BW saying for the first 3 days feed on demand and then try to establish a 3 hour routine. Happy to be corrected though! DP sleeping in the other room worked for us with second child as he was less tired and so he could look after DS1 and support me so that I could go to bed early in the evening.

eg I'd often go to bed at 7pm when DS2 did and DP would stay up and wash up, tidy, sort out washing etc.

I accept this might not work for everybody but OP has lots of options to consider now.

Some babies cluster feed for weeks whereas others grow out if it fairly soon. There's no way of telling which one you have I'm afraid
A body pillow is great for feeding lying down. Do you have one from your pregnancy? Really bf can be hard work in the early days but it is so much easier at night once you get into it! You really don't need to get up if baby sleeps with you and in a few weeks time you'll wake up wondering if you've fed him or not last night

YES!!! Of course you can go out in the evenings - in a short while your baby will give you 'time off' and you can leave him having fed him, maybe with an emergency bottle of expressed for whoever is looking after him.....but this might not be for a few weeks (otherwise you can take him with you of course).

What is happening now is happening because he is new...just enjoy this developing relationship, just accept his needs, revel in the fact you are meeting them so beautifully, bask in the love you have for him and he has for you, and take pride in the fact you have grown and are continuing to grow another little human :)

No need to look ahead - don't lose the joy of these early days in fear. Being nervous and feeling like an amateur is normal for new mothers, and it gets better. It really, really, does :)

Thank you, ladies. I hope I will feel happy and content soon. I understand my expectations are too high, but if it was poasible to change the constant feeding to a three hourly one ... I will look in the book, my partner bought it today. x

As regards to going out in the evening, I found that new babies are much more portable than older ones, and took dd to quite a few meals out (born in November; lots of xmas meals to negotiate). It's when babies get into a routine that your life beceomes more restricted!

Ds cluster fed (pr seemed to) for weeks. Dd cluster fed for about a week. I kind of missed it second time round, as it was an excuse to just sit and cuddle on the sofa.

Which book are you looking in? Don't forget, babies don't read the book so if the advice given doesn't suit you and/or your baby then don't worry about ditching it. There isn't a right or wrong way to do it, but there is a right and wrong for your family.

Good luck, I hope things start to settle soon. Give yourself a chance, no one has got into the swing of things by 10 days. It's perfectly fine to still be on the sofa gibbering in your pyjamas :)

Ooh the Baby Whisperer's advice on breastfeeding is deeply bonkers. I didn't appreciate this until I re-read it when DD was older. But don't worry, there's some good stuff in the book, including the bits on really observing your baby and trying to puzzle out what the problem is when they're crying. Just don't take her advice on feeding. Especially when she starts talking about "yields" and being down on the farm

But of course at the moment you just want sleep... I think the key has to be your other half doing some of the looking-after at night. Of course, you do the milk - but you can hand him over afterwards to soothe / settle while you maximise your sleeping time between feeds.

Congratulations! You are doing really well. It takes babies a couple of weeks even to distinguish between night and day and there is a massive difference between a 7 week old baby and a 10 day old baby. As others have said - don't worry about a schedule yet, sleep when your baby sleeps, don't worry about house work or cooking (ready meals are fine and it doesn't matter if the house is a tip).

A few other tips...

You will feel brighter if you can get out every day for a short time (weather permitting!), even if only into the garden or down the road.

Make sure you are drinking enough. Every time you feed, have a glass of water.

Experiment with boucy chairs/swings/vibrating chairs and consider getting a sling. Anything to free your hands for an hour or two a day

Let your partner help during the day and night (even if he has to work the next day). Tiny babies often respond really well to being held/changed by Dad, and may settle better for someone who does not smell of milk

Good luck!!

It will get easier, it will. I've fed on demand and DS now feeds 3 hourly of his own accord- he's 5 months. I know that seems like a lifetime away, but breastfeeding really is so easy after the first month, no bottles, no sterilising, fewer colds as DC will get your antibodies... and I agree with Astr0naut, friends who follow routines are much more restricted, they always have to be home by a certain time, always clock watching, fretting when baby is not doing what the book says. You will get your life back slowly, bit by bit, but for now if I were you I'd accept that the next month is going to be hard, take one day at a time, and persevere with the breastfeeding because if you don't you can't easily change your mind at a later date once your milk has gone. Too many of my friends feel sad that they didn't get through the early stages and the workload is definitely greater with the constant rounds of washing bottles, making and warming formula (although I realise the mum doesn't have to do all formula feeds, in practice most of my friends do). If after a few months you still want to mix feed then your supply will be better established and if you want to give up bf, at least it will be a considered decision, not made in desperation and you won't have to feel sad or guilty about it.

Babies feed so much in the early days to stimulate milk supply and if you don't let them you will almost certainly have a supply problem, unless you are particularly abundant in the milk department. It really does get better. Now I can go out for three hours at a time, longer if I bothered to express which I hate doing. Also if you mix feed at this stage you may well have supply issues.

I know it is politically unfashionable to say some of this but I feel very sad for women who don't get the support and encouragement they need to continue breastfeeding. It is such a beautiful thing to do for your baby, and you won't get a second chance to do it. I had lots of pain and problems in the first month so I know it isn't easy, you do need to get other people to do all of the housework, cooking, nappies etc if you possibly can, at least for the first month. Do you have family or friends who can help do everything else, so you can just bf and look after yourself a bit?

There is some good info on here about babies' sleep and bedsharing, which works really well for us

www.isisonline.org.uk/how_babies_sleep/sleep_training/

www.isisonline.org.uk/hcp/where_babies_sleep/parents_bed/how_parents_bedshare/

Also fwiw, I think the Baby Whisperer is wrong, babies naturally fall asleep on the breast because of the hormones that are produced by feeding. So eat, activity, sleep, you is not the natural order of things, and although I can see the logic of not creating a suck/ sleep association, you are working against nature, and you will therefore most likely have a battle on your hands.

Wow, long post, I hope you get some support OP, and that you do what you really want to do, and that people help you in doing that.

Congrats on your newborn!
Hang in there - it gets much easier.
Have you thought about introducing the occasional bottle, so your partner can help with feeding? Although I'm still breast-feeding now (baby's nearly 1)I gave formula from day 1, last thing at night. She slept 6-hour stretches right from the earliest days, probably because her tummy was full.
BTW I am the only mum from my antenatal group who is still breast-feeding. Most of the others started out with EBF and gave up pretty quickly due to mastitis, exhaustion.
If you don't want to given any formula at all, then how about expressing and storing the milk for your partner to help feed baby? Make the most of him being on leave!

Oh, and in favour of bed sharing this is how it works for us:

DS and I sleep like the picture on the link above. DS and I both wake up together a few times a night for him to feed but I don't ever feel annoyed because a) he's right there and it takes about 2 seconds to latch him on. b) I feed him lying down (I used to get annoyed and exhausted sitting up in bed. Not to mention being sore down under in the early stages. And c) our sleep cycles must be synchronised because I often wake before him and I must be in light sleep otherwise I would be annoyed. I hate being woken up.

And in short, I often feel embarrased to tell other mums just how good this arrangement is, because many of them seem to be struggling with cots and bottles, and I hate to sound smug. It wasn't easy to start with but it's pretty good now.

You are going great. You shouldn't really try and get baby to feed every 3 hours at this stage as its too early. Right now baby is building a good supply by feeding so often and if you interrupt this it could be detrimental to your supply later on. I'd say definitely feed on demand for at least 6-12 weeks then see where you are at.

Baby's needs will change quickly and these early days will fly by although it doesn't feel like it right now.

It's a steep learning curve and seems do full on but you'll soon get the hang of it. It's a big change from life pre baby but the best thing you can do is go with the flow.

I'd stop worrying about your dh's sleep to be honest. You can't take the burden of all the sleepless nights yourself and neither should you have to. My dh helped out in the night when ours were little, he would change baby if he'd had a poo. Just having someone there in the night for support makes you feel less alone. Sometimes it can feel like you're the only person awake in the world but just remember 1000s of other mums and dads are awake too doing exactly the same thing

I keep forgetting things. Meant to say DH has only woken up in the night about twice ever, because DS wakes me by tapping me with his arm, he doesn't normally cry any more (although he did in the first few weeks). Also we do have a babybay co-sleeper cot, which makes it easier & safer I think. DS doesn't normally go in it but it provides a safety barrier so he can sleep right on the edge or I can if he's on the other side.

Lastly, I agree with not changing them unless it's a pooey nappy. Good luck OP I hope things get easier soon and I'm really sure they will. I hope my posts didn't sound like an advert for how well we're doing but more suggestions of things we've found work for us.

Aim to breastfeed until your 6 week check. That's what I did eventhough I hated every second for those weeks. by the time I got to the 6 week check it was second nature and I carried on until he was 8 months old. I do admit though that he was fed one formula feed a day when we went to bed to give me a break. Also, it's not the end of the world if you don't breastfeed - your child won't have to put it on their CV when they're older.

Big congratulations on your new baby.
God, it was a nightmare for me too. Have just scanned the replies but the baby shouldn't be being woken by a wet nappy - they are v absorbent for the amount of wee the baby produces. I wouldn't bother changing it unless it was dirty.
Also, I suffered with baby blues until I tried co sleeping and am now a huge fan but it has to be right for you. My dh went off to sleep in another room and I felt happier with that as there was no need for him to wake up if I was feeding. Eventually he came back!
Also, any support you can get makes a huge difference. A local breastfeeding group kept my sanity.
It's bloody hard work but you are giving something which can't be bought.
Good luck and it will get better.