Wine and breast feeding...

[twogirls1more]

I enjoy the odd glass of wine with dinner and am just trying to work out what's best considering I'm currently breast feeding my 5 day old son...
I'm breast feeding mostly but as he's vv hungry and not settling well we've taken to giving a couple of top up bottles of formula in the evening and during the nt, (mainly so we can get a few hours sleep!!)
How long does a couple of units take to leave your breast milk once drunk? Last couple of nts I've had prob a unit or two with dinner about 8pm, then not breast fed til around 3-4am. Would my milk by then be clear?
Thanks for advice girls! :)

Alcohol metabolises out of your milk at the same rate as out of your blood, so 1 unit per hour.
In your example your milk would have been clear by 11pm.

However there is no harm in having a glass of wine and BFing immediately, you need to have drunk a really huge amount (half a bottle of vodka type amounts) for there to be any effect on your baby. :)

I know you haven't asked for advice actually on BFing, but do be wary of going so long without feeding in these early days. Now is a key time for establishing supply, especially in the evenings and overnight as your prolactin (hormone involved with milk production) levels are highest.
I would try and avoid giving formula as much as possible, because every oz of formula you give, is an oz that your body thinks your baby doesn't need and you may have problems with supply.

Totally agree with Alibaba. The odd glass of wine is fine - I wouldn't have one every night but you can certainly have one a couple of times a week and you don't have to worry about feeding the baby straight after (or during!). But I would be wary of introducing the formula. Your baby is so new that your boobs are still working out what they have to do, and they will only produce the amount of milk that is being taken out of them - so the formula will probably reduce your supply. As Alibaba said you naturally make more milk at night too so this is really the time to be bfing if you can. Your baby probably isn't "hungry", you know - babies this age just want to be more or less permanently attached to the boob. It's not just about food - it's how they comfort themselves and where their instincts are telling them they should be (cos if they're not attached to you, they're vulnerable to being eaten by tigers - babies still think they've been born to cavewomen). Your baby won't settle at this age as he doesn't know how to and in evolutionary terms it would be dangerous for him if he did (cos you'd put him down and leave him alone and those tigers would get him again). Honestly, the best thing to do is leave the formula for now (bear in mind too that it's not the case that your milk doesn't satisfy him but the formula does, which is why he sleeps for longer when he has it - it's just that formula is harder to digest so he feels full for longer, but your milk is very easy to digest and his stomach is only the size of a marble, so it empties quickly and soon wants more). Give him the boob whenever he wants it - which is probably going to be most of the time, which is normal and just try to go with the flow. Sleep whenever he sleeps in the day - don't worry about getting dressed or doing housework - and get cosy with the sofa and DVDs. It will pass, and in a few weeks you'll find bf so easy you'll be glad you stuck with it

twogirls - please do ask the midwife for support with your bf. A couple of bottles of formula already at 5 days is a serious undermining of breastfeeding, as is the l....o....n....g gap between breastfeeds. Breastfeeding is not sustainable like this, sorry......you need to ensure he feeds effectively and frequently, and frequent feeds are normal at this stage and for some time to come.

There is no harm in having a glass or two of wine.

Thanx aliba see where you're coming from with most of what you say. Sadly though think with something as clearly time consuming as breast feeding, what works for one of us, isn't guaranteed to work for another and their set of circumstances and family set up.
I am an extremely busy Mum of 4 now (+ DH!) and this includes a particularly bright 20mth old DD who needs way more attention and stimulation than I feel capable of giving at the mo and a child with Aspergers. I would love to have nothing as important to do all day every day than feed and cuddle my new baby son (and sorry girls, I'm not in a pro co-sleeping, carry baby round ALL day in a sling camp kinda gal!) I also have plenty of other responsibilities to my other children such as the cooking, washing, ironing, sorting of school paperwork etc. etc.., none of which will wait..(though non essential chores like dusting and hoovering can :))
DS is still only days old so it is admittedly v early days and I will persevere with it but once DH goes back to work, I doubt I'll be able to maintain longer term sadly. He is most certainly a hungry baby.. (if he's spending 3/4's of the day latched on properly and feeding, how can he not be!!?) Then, he could still immediately guzzle a bottle of formula and then go straight to settled sleep! Have spoken to midwife who was equally as surprised how much he feeds and suggested it could be a wind problem. (It's not.. DS is pretty much self-winding and only need to sit him up and just the action of doing so makes him bring his wind up!)..Yes, have also tried winding for alot longer just incase and he's clearly got no more. lurcher, would love to sleep when he does but sadly my DD doesn't so that is not to be, therefore feel I need to be able to get the odd 2-3hrs consecutive at nt before I go mad! Have found myself falling asleep with him in my arms and jolting myself awake during the day, which I'm sure anyone would agree could be quite dangerous!
Tiktok.. did you mean your msg to read like a lecture as that's the way it comes across! Do agree with you all though that the longish gap prob isn't doing me too many favours so may try think of way round it, though can't possibly keep up feeding ALL the time round the clock with no more than an hr and half gap! (That's no good for me, baby OR any of my family tbh.. I have more than just my baby to think about in all of this!)
Thanks for putting my mind at rest re the wine and will prob just allow myself a little tipple around the wkend..(if I feel up to it lol!!) :)

I don't think Tiktok's advice read like a lecture, that was a little harsh. To be fair, your OP made no indication of your other challenges which might hinder successful breastfeeding, and a common occurrence is a first time mum who has absolutely no clue about how a long delay between feeds will screw up breastfeeding for ever. Tiktok quite feasibly might have saved a breastfeeding relationship with her sensible advice, and has many times over with OPs just like yours!

Please don't think there is any implied judgement in any of the advice you receive. If you can't manage to dedicate as much time as you may need to breastfeeding, given your family commitments, you'll receive plenty of help with how to mix feed for as long as possible, if that is your choice.

We each do what we can for our families, and our time gets divided as a family grows. We're all in the same boat!

Enjoy the wine.

Bad form OP. tiktok and others were not lecturing, just pointing out something that could undermine your BF. Now if you're not bothered about it, that's fine and as you say it's got to work for your lifestyle. But don't criticise people for trying to help - the majority of people on this topic are incredibly grateful for tiktok's 'lectures'.

twogirls I won't add to the very good advice you've had here, other than to say that unfortunately, when establishing breastfeeding it's the night time and evening feeds that are really important. It's short term effort for long term gain, because in a few weeks, when bf is established, it all becomes a lot easier and there is less faff with feeding and also, nothing soothes a baby quite like booby.

So although your bf journey has been jeaopardised, it is up to you and your family whether you want to get it back on track and make life easier for yourself in the long run. Only you know how tired you are right now, and whether you are willing to sacrifice the longer term benefits for the few weeks where you are now.

As to wine, yes you can enjoy one or two small glasses through the evening, and it has kept many a bf mum sane when the cluster feeding and 'witching hour' of bfing starts.

Cosleeping is normal and not hippyish or related to sling wearing. It can be a godsend in the early days and studies have shown that bfing mums get 20 minutes more sleep a night than ff mums. Hey it's only 20 minutes, but when you've a new baby 20 minutes is luxury!

My message was brief and to the point, twogirls, because you already had loads to read from other posters....better, I thought, given I knew zero about the other circumstances in your life or your family situation, or your parenting preferences, to be brief and factual, as I had nothing else to go on :)

No, it wasn't meant to be a lecture :( It was a brief, factual message.

You can tell the difference : a lecture is very long and probably filled with a lot more information and advice. A brief factual message shares information succinctly and signposts the reader to other sources of help. The disadvantage of the brief factual message is that it does not 'fit' with everyone's preferences and circumstances - can't be helped when the writer has no clue of preferences or circumstances!

Thanks for the kinder comments from other posters :)

Maybe lecture was a bad choice of word but I do think that your response wasn't put particularly sensitively when I've given birth in the last wk, obviously struggling with the feeding, hormones all over the place etc.. and just looking for a bit of encouragement and support! (infact, no I wasn't, that was my other thread!.. I just wanted advice on alcohol whilst feeding, not feeding advice. ) Well I now feel a bit ganged up on to be honest. A lot of what's been said has been unnecessarily patronising and snipey. We don't all find breastfeeding easy and I think that some successful breastfeeders have a habit of looking down on others that may struggle or choose not to. I personally don't like the idea of co-sleeping as I think it's potentially dangerous and also I feel it would be bad for my relationship with DH and making a rod for own back. I very much believe though it's each to their own and wouldn't judge anyone for the choices they make.

Twogrils - I didn't read any of the comments as being patronising. I've commented on your other thread to, maybe just some more real life support would be a good idea.

For heavens sake, no-one has ganged up on you. Nothing in your OP suggested that you had other children, or that you were so lacking in support at home. Or that you weren't really serious about fully establishing breastfeeding.

No-one has judged you, but you clearly feel defensive. That is normal at 5 days post-partum.

I think there are very few people who find breastfeeding truly easy at the beginning. It is hard work and requires an investment of time, which many people are unable to make.

I certainly didn't mean to be patronising about cosleeping and apologies if you read it that way. I do find that some people think that cosleeping is something that only hippies do, and therefore something that they would never consider doing because they're not that type of person. Many people feel reassured that cosleeping doesn't automatically make you a hippy and is something that the vast majority of people actually do, though some don't admit to it.

OP - if you do want to be succesful in your bfing then you do need to take on board the advice on this thread, and I would second the getting RL support at a bf support group too. Meeting other mums having the same issues and problems can really give great support and make you feel more 'normal'. As breastfeeding past a few weeks is sadly no longer the norm within the UK, bfing mums can feel quite isolated at times, so RL support can make a huge difference to how you feel about it.

I know you are probably feeling quite picked on within this thread, but I can assure you that tiktok, myself and the other posters are actually trying to be helpful, though I guess as you say, hormones and tiredness are probably making you read words in a more negative way than you would usually.

As well as a glass of wine, I found chocolate cake helped me through the evening feeds too. Remember that you can eat a whole Mars bar every day whilst bfing and not put on any weight - there's an incentive all by itself.

Good luck whichever path you choose.

"A lot of what's been said has been unnecessarily patronising and snipey"

?????????

I don't think so. What has been said has been very supportive and informative.

Congratulations on your ds! You might find he doesn't need to feed all the time pretty quickly as you and he find your equilibrium in terms of demand and supply.

Wishing you all the luck.

twogirls, sorry you're feeling down about this :(

No one here is a mind reader. Your original post is upbeat and cheery - read it again. There was no suggestion you had other issues in your life (let alone other children) or strong parenting preferences. You can't assume people have read your other thread.

People have taken the time to answer your questions and ensure you know how best to maintain breastfeeding. I think you are being unnecessarily critical, to be honest, and making vast assumptions about whether others have had problems breastfeeding - I am not going to tell you my own problems (it's not a competition :) ) but to suggest that I or others are looking down on you because of your difficulties is out of order.

Being hormonal and tired and struggling doesn't excuse persistent rudeness, in my book - you are probably lovely in real life, and take care to accept help and information politely. Why be any different on line?

And that probably was 'a lecture' !!!

Persistent rudeness???? I was just being honest..(as you were.) I am not a naturally cantankerous person and certainly wasn't trying to offend anyone with anything I've put. I know there are plenty of bitchy women out there who are always trying to pick a fight but I'm not one of them!
I'm sorry that we seem to have a difference of opinion tiktok on how your first response read and having shown all this to a couple of friends and DH, they agree that you sounded somewhat condescending and a bit terse. If it wasn't meant that way then sorry for getting you wrong. By the way a few immediately, needlessly jumped to your defense and by what was said..(particularly by verylittlecarrot) it would appear that you have quite a following on here giving breastfeeding advice so I can't really win can I?!
Have to say have been left a bit confused as to why I would've been expected to go into the ins and outs of my situation and home life when all I asked was a simple question. I didn't ask for an opinion on whether or not I might be undermining breastfeeding by giving formula did I?! I only gave a bit more background info as all posters above seemed to take it upon themselves to give me breast v formula advice that wasn't asked for! I do honestly take all of your opinions seriously and I'm sure if you are all the successful breastfeeders that you say you are then you are speaking from experience and there is alot of truth in alot of what you say. I do think though that as every situation, mum and baby is different, what works for one won't necessarily work for the next and there is no "law" when comes to feeding. For eg, though certain methods may work for a younger mum of one who only has herself, baby and DP to look after, it wouldn't necessarily work for me.I certainly would never judge anyone for their choices in most aspects of parenting as it's very personal.
As MW says, it's better for me to be doing just one breast feed a day than none at all and if I have to give up I've not failed baby. I already have 3 v healthy, intelligent children who were only ever breastfed for about 3wks so something's better than nothing. For now I will just take a day at a time and do my best under the circumstances..(without burning myself out!)
I take it when you mentioned my "other issues" tiktok you meant my children? I don't see them as issues tbh but yes, it does make me a very busy mummy with a lot to keep me busy and juggle.
Will leave this here as not a lot more to say on it really. Thanks for all your opinions on things and I wish you and your babies/children well. I will most certainly though think twice before asking a simple question on here in the future lol!

OP - good luck! Just wanted to say you're 100% right and that every breast feed you do is good. Formula is not evil.

And also that I read the responses as lecturing you on something you hadn't even asked about - you asked a simple and reasonable question, not for information on bf vs ff!

You have shown it to friends? I think you are over-thinking all this.

No-one gave breast vs. formula advice, simply advice to support breastfeeding.
Leaving long gaps between feeds which then leads to supply problems is a common mistake among first-time mothers, which nothing in your post indicated that you weren't.

I will say again that no-one has judged you. And yes tiktok does have a 'following' on here, as you put it. She has given hours and hours to helping support people struggling with BFing on here, and is therefore held in high regard.

Hugo - no-one said formula was evil, but giving it at such a young age is very detrimental to the chances of exclusive BFing succeeding. Now for a lot of people that isn't an issue, but for people who hope to EBF it most certainly is.

:( pointless arguing about this, twogirls. 'Persistent' meant 'in two posts' - so prob too strong a word, I agree :)

Terse and condescending? 'Terse' = short and to the point. I explained why that was - you'd already had several replies. Condescending? Don't see it! I gave you information about how bf is likely/not likely to work and suggested you asked your midwife for support. Sorry if that came across in the wrong way, though.

You don't have to go into the ins and outs of your situation - of course you don't! But if you choose not to (perfectly reasonably!), then you cannot complain when replies to your post don't take the ins and outs of your situation into account....'cos people didn't know about them!

Of course there is no 'law' in the legal sense about anything to do with infant feeding, but if someone wants breastfeeding to work, then giving formula when their baby is a few days old is not going to help them.....that is nothing to do with judging someone, and nothing to do with whether or not breastfeeding or formula is better for an individual situation. And that wasn't part of the discussion. It's just the biology of it, and there's no getting away from it :)

Not everyone knows that breastfeeding is 'fragile' in this way, and I think it's ok to mention it, and explain it, in a non-judgmental way - as I and others did.

I did not mean 'children' when I said 'issues'. When I mean 'children' I say 'children' as I did, clearly, in my post. I said 'I did not know you had other issues in your life (let alone other children)' and by 'other issues' I meant problems, challenges, concerns.

No one is judging you - really they're not. And I hope you are not judging anyone yourself :)

Thanx hugo! Finally someone else who sees what I see on here! :) As I said, I have nothing more to say to this and have more important things than getting any more caught up in pointless differences in opinion with people I don't know from Adam!

Just wanted to add to the good advice given already,

in my experience, when I felt I had drunk too much to

breastfeed I expressed,chucked it and gave baby formula.

Supply not affected, baby not drunk, everyone happy, especially me.

It was just such a relief after 9 months of pregnancy to have a drink.

But that's just me. best of luck with it all OP.

No one gave you any discussion about 'bf v ff ' - not one single thing. Not one person has disagreed that any bf is a worthwhile thing, or suggested that formula is 'evil' (FFS)...

Enjoy your baby, enjoy feeding however you do it, enjoy your wine, and have a nice evening and a sleep :) :) :)

OP, please don't feel ganged up on. With a 5 day old baby, your hormones will be going crazy and you'll probably look back at this thread in a few days and realise nobody was trying to patronise you.

Take the advice as it was meant, in good faith and because women on here really do help others. Every time I've posted on here I have had helpful advice. Please use this forum. It can be an invaluable resource.

Congratulations on your new arrival :)

OP,

yes to a bit of wine!

If you are happy with the status quo and understand that the formula and long gap between feeding will probably mean your milk supply is compromised somewhat then that's fine. You need to do what feels right and works for you and your family.

As you probably know newborns do feed a lot, but if he's really feeding so constantly I think it's worth getting someone to check your latch. If you can find an hour to go to a breastfeeding drop in then do. Often midwives aren't well trained enough to give good advice and it's amazing how a few adjustments can really make a big difference.

This could mean he feeds less frequently (as he feeds more efficiently and settles better) and you are able to sustain breastfeeding for longer if that's what you want.