Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Infant feeding

Get advice and support with infant feeding from other users here.

Wine and breast feeding...

94 replies

twogirls1more · 23/11/2011 22:48

I enjoy the odd glass of wine with dinner and am just trying to work out what's best considering I'm currently breast feeding my 5 day old son...
I'm breast feeding mostly but as he's vv hungry and not settling well we've taken to giving a couple of top up bottles of formula in the evening and during the nt, (mainly so we can get a few hours sleep!!)
How long does a couple of units take to leave your breast milk once drunk? Last couple of nts I've had prob a unit or two with dinner about 8pm, then not breast fed til around 3-4am. Would my milk by then be clear?
Thanks for advice girls! :)

OP posts:
WoTmania · 25/11/2011 13:42

Just read this. I posted on your other thread yesterday. Interesting that you are ignoring that thread with helpful and constructive posts to come on here and say people are 'ganging up' and being unpleasant (which FWIW I dont' think they are they were quite helpful going by the info given in the OP).
Maybe you should take a look at the other thread? but most of the comments are similar i.e - not necessarily hungry but normal for a days old baby, formula won't help your supply.
I hope you resolve the situation to your satisfaction the odd glass of wine won't harm your baby.

MollyTheMole · 25/11/2011 14:01

Tiktok - I suppose I see the word undermine and see the harsh dictionary definition ie. damaging, weaken etc, and my supply is/was none of those things, even after introducing some FF feeds at only 10 days, which is why I was banging on about a FF feed not necessarily undermining breastfeeding, because it hasnt with me (although I now realise that I am probably just lucky not to have had any issues with it, apart from recurring thrush which wont bloody go away).

tiktok · 25/11/2011 14:26

Molly - it is undermining not necessarily to immediate apparent supply, though, as I explained. It is undermining to the whole physiological process of breastfeeding.

I could go on and on and explain this, in all its aspects, but I won't :) I will start to sound like a textbook.

MollyTheMole · 25/11/2011 14:57

Does the word undermine in breastfeeding context mean something different than what I take undermine to mean (IYSWIM?) because, honestly, I cant see how my experience of breastfeeding has been weakened and damaged by introducing a bottle at night. I still produce milk and I can still feed DS at this particular feed if DP is working. I just cant get my head around how, in my case, breastfeeding has been undermined when Ive got no problems at all Confused

Is there a possibility that even though I have now been doing this for 6 weeks I might still encounter problems because of this one bottle? Is there anything I can look for online to understand it a bit better? If I search on breastfeeding and undermine (very simple I know!) all I get is articles of how FF advertising undermines breastfeeding

tiktok · 25/11/2011 15:30

Molly, best way of explaining this is to direct you to this webpage and asking you to read the section called 'How Your Body Decides How Much Milk to Make'.

This notes that the early days are a time when the body calibrates the mother's potential milk supply by laying down prolactin receptors, and the more the baby feeds, the more prolactin receptors there are. If people want to know more, there is quite a literature on the prolactin receptor theory (theory in the sense of 'coherent explanation', not in the sense of 'only' a theory as if someone is guessing :)).

The risk with early formula bottles is that milk supply is calibrated downwards - this may not matter or even be apparent for some time, given that often, nature 'makes' women actually over produce at first, which may compensate. But the risk is that later, when that initial over-production ceases, supply may not be enough.

Again, not necessarily something that is apparent or something that matters - because the baby's intake (and supply) can often be ratcheted up again by feeding the baby more often.

But because nature does not 'expect' the new baby to have any other food than human milk (and for 99.99 per cent of human existance, this would have been a hazardous thing to do), anything that does interfere with this, is by its very nature, 'undermining' to the physiological process.

This is not the same as saying you, or anyone else, does an unjustifiable, or terrible or risky or automatically doom-laden thing by giving formula. Maybe it will have no apparent effects on the baby or on the milk supply.

But it's not a physiological thing to do - hope you understand I am not judging but explaining :)

TruthSweet · 25/11/2011 15:31

Not to speak for tiktok but for me undermining of breastfeeding might include a baby's behaviour during/following a bottlefeed leading a mother to doubt her ability to fully satisfy her baby (e.g. baby cluster feeds for an evening then has a bottle fed - mum feels she hasn't got enough milk not that cluster feeding is normal newborn behaviour regardless of milk supply and babies can take a bottle without being hungry due to stimulation of suckling reflex by the hard teat of the bottle) and so finds herself introducing more and more bottles in order to compensate for her 'dwindling' supply.

Bfing could also be undermined by bottle feeding leading to:-
baby refusing to bf (baby showing a preference for flow perhaps),

baby taking 6oz (or whatever) from a bottle but mum is 'only' able to pump Xoz leaing her to think she isn't making enough (not that pumping doesn't equal amount baby is able to access),

baby having a big feed from a bottle and sleeping/not interested in bfing for a longer than normal stretch so mum gets engorgement/plugged ducts/even mastitis as a result,

family members requesting mum forgoes bfing baby so they can feed baby a bottle - mum feels unsupported in her choice to bf so may either withdraw from family support (perhaps making excuses from visiting/being visited) or may decide to swap more feeds for bottles so family can 'help out' not realising this may lead to diminished supply,

I could go on but I don't have time. These are all real life examples from mothers I have met not ones I have made up and none of the above may happen as a result of giving a bottle to an individual mother but they are all possibilities.

tiktok · 25/11/2011 15:33

Truth, those are all very real and common ways the process of bf is undermined, indeed.

I have put the physiological evidence, and you have put the emotional/social/psychological evidence.

TruthSweet · 25/11/2011 15:34

gah -posts with Tiktok whose explaination is miles better than mine Wink

tiktok · 25/11/2011 15:35

PS Truth, I think women can tell, with a bit of insight, if formula has undermined breastfeeding in their own situations, in the ways you describe. The physiological thing, though, is invisible, and you cannot see the prolactin receptors not being 'switched on'.

Iheartmolly · 25/11/2011 15:51

Op-I totally agree with you and I think the way you have been spoken down to on here 5 days post birth is shit.

Op-didnt ask for bf v ff advice-she specifically asked about the risks of drinking and bf. She didnt need the lecture.

I believe some people are too much of a martyr when it comes to bf. Yes we all know it best for baby health-no dispute there.

But I have friends who are ebf-they look like death warmed up. They have other children and commitments and yet are trying to survive on a couple of hours sleep a night. It is affecting their mental health-how is that best for baby?

And they wont even enjoy a glass of wine to relieve the pressure cos its not best for baby! Martyr madness!!

tiktok · 25/11/2011 15:55

Iheartmolly - please indicate where the lecture is. Please point to where the OP has been given ^any' 'bf v ff' advice.

You think some of your friends who are breastfeeding are martyrs - what has that got to do with this thread? Your friends are not contributing, are they? Where has anyone told the OP she must bf at the expense of her mental healh?

Iheartmolly · 25/11/2011 15:59

tiktok-eh all the shite you spouted about ff undermining bf-was that the question op asked? No-so why bother posting it unless it was to push your own agenda?

I mentioned being a bf martyr as that is the tone of many of the posters on here-ooohh my nipples are practically falling off due to repeated masitis but that wont stop me bf-no sirree!!

I have read alot of the bf/ff threads on here and quite honestly those that advocate bf do themselves no favours with their smugger thab smug attittude.Just saying.

tiktok · 25/11/2011 16:13

Iheartmolly - you're not 'just saying'. You're making stuff up. I explained about undermining in request to someone asking about it. A couple of people have shared some bad experiences with their bf, in solidarity with the OP who was finding the early days hard. How unkind of you to accuse them of being smug and martryed - is that what you tell your real life friends?

Iheartmolly · 25/11/2011 16:17

tiktok-yes I have told my very good friend she is being a martyr! I dont have a problem with being honest with my friends

I maintain that the tone of your reply was smug-the op asked a simple question and you used your reply to your own ends.

My very good friend is coming out with me tomorrow-having finally seen sense and borrowed my breast pump. I am hoping to persuade her to join me in a couple of glasses of wineGrin

MollyTheMole · 25/11/2011 16:20

thanks for the link tiktok, will have a read Smile

tiktok · 25/11/2011 16:20

No....the point I put to you was whether you called your friends smug and a martyr....

Sorry if you thought I was being smug in my original reply.

I care very much what ill-mannered people like you think, obviously :)

Iheartmolly · 25/11/2011 16:26

tiktok-riled are we? and if you dont care what I think why bother to reply at all?

I dont need to tell my friend I believe she is smug-she knows full well that any of the things I have said to her re the bf are simply out of concern.

Bf for her means being up every hour of every single night for the past 8 months. It means she regularly breaks down as she is so tired. It means she can give her other children very little attention as she cant put the baby down for 2 seconds but that he is crying.

Why is she continuing to do it?-because she is scared if she doesnt the bf militia will look down on here from their smug,ivory towers.

Alibabaandthe80nappies · 25/11/2011 16:45

Iheartmolly - there is no call for you to come onto this thread ranting at tiktok, who has done nothing but provide helpful advice.
No the OP didn't ask for all the info about BFing being undermined, but a later poster did.

I doubt your friend is continuing with BF because she is worried she will be judged (although it sounds like you are already judging her, some friend), I expect she is continuing because she believes it is the best thing for her baby.

Iheartmolly · 25/11/2011 16:51

alibaba-Where did I rant please? I merely stated that I found the tone of tiktoks posts very smug and they were not in relation to what op asked in her opening post.

Also if you read the full thread I think you will find that I was not the only one who thought so

That is exactly why my friend is continuing with bf-she has intimated as much to me. Yes you are right it may be best for the baby-but is not best for my friends mh imo nor her other children nor her dh.

My friend does not look happy when I see her-she looks ill,tired and unhappy. The joys of bf eh?

Napdamnyou · 25/11/2011 16:55

@ molly: How do you know it is breastfeeding that is making your friend tired ill and unhappy? She might be tired ill and unhappy for lots of reasons, including poking after small children with not much support from friends who are undermining her choices, crap weather, having a bug, anything.

FF babies don't necessarily sleep any better anyway.
At least she can feed lying down, instead of have to go and get bottle out of fridge in kitchen.

Babies do keep you up at night, children are hard work, why blame BF for everything?

metalelephant · 25/11/2011 16:57

Iheartmolly, I find your tone unnecessarily aggressive towards tiktok, why?

When one asks if it's ok to introduce formula then they must be prepared for an answer that may not make them happy. Yes, I have also introduced formula to my baby because she was underweight and the doctor said so, but I was well aware it would affect my supply and it certainly did.

It really pisses me off when advice is asked on breastfeeding and then the answers given are deemed "a lecture" and "ganging up" and according to your earlier post "shite". Really? Tiktok and all the other posters don't have to spend their time offering support, they share their expertise and have helped a lot of us. It's rude and ungrateful.

tiktok · 25/11/2011 17:00

You're welcome, molly - there is other stuff about it, as I say, elsewhere on the web but if you want to know more, you can obv google.

Iheartmolly · 25/11/2011 17:07

Please read the opening post!-op did not ask about introducing ff and how it would effect her bf supply. She asked specifically about bf and alcohol-she didnt need the lecture.

In answer to the question re my friend-well she tells me that she is knackered because she is up every single hour. She is weepy every time we meet up as she has no time to do anything else as baby constantly wants on the breast.She co-sleeps btw-not making a jot of difference to the amount of sleep she getting. So forgive me for putting 2 and 2 together and getting 4Hmm

Re ff feeding-well I can only speak from my experiences-my 3 dcs have all slept through from 8 weeks old and continue to be great sleepers

Of course I am aware of the benefits of bf and if I had been able to do so I would have done it for longer-but not to the detriment of my own health,my other children or my relationship with dh. I simply cant bear the smell of burning martyr thoughGrin

Alibabaandthe80nappies · 25/11/2011 17:14

No martyrdom here, I am quite content with my choices thanks :)

But you are clearly looking for a fight, so I shan't oblige you by engaging further.

Iheartmolly · 25/11/2011 17:16

No I was not looking for a fight-I just dont like women who try and make other women feel bad about their choices and I find there is a lot of that on the bf threads.

Swipe left for the next trending thread