BF and Top Ups.. arrgh..

[anonMum2]

Sorry.. a lengthy one.. but I feel like I'm losing this battle.

Basically, had a good start and doing well with BF until midwife took DS2 from me in the hospital when I needed rest and gave him a bottle when he was less than a day old. I kept going round to ask for him so I can put him on breast but they said he's fast asleep, this went on for around 7 hours. I later found out they gave him 30ml and that's why he slept for so long! Isn't that a bit much for a 1 day old baby??

Got home, EMCS, tiredness, pain.. lack of sleep, I struggled to latch him on properly since that bottlefeed at hospital. He started getting hungry and we were told to give top-ups so we did it with cups. Midwife told us to start him on bottles so he wouldn't be so hungry and I could get some rest as I wasn't sleeping at all. Made a bottle, very stupidly made 120ml even though I intended to give him around 30ml. MIL offered to help as I was sorting out DS1 and I gave clear instructions to just give him only 30 ml. Came back in 5 minutes and to my horror found MIL had given DS1 ALL the milk. Since then DS2 started demanding for top-ups after every feed rather than just the evening.

When milk came in, I had engorgement as baby wasn't latching on properly and I developed mastitis. Things got worse, sore nipples meant I couldn't just feed him non-stop as I intended to and I was once again advised by midwife to just feed every 3 hours and to give top up after he's been on the breast for a while as I get too sore.

He is now 10 days old and his top-up has gone up to around 90ml after each BF, a lot more in the evenings. I try very hard to put him on every 2.5hours (except night time when it's ever 4 hours), but it doesn't satisfy him and his top-ups are increasing. It definitely doesn't help when all well-meaning relatives who are staying with me keep saying things like "he needs more milk..." and keep offering to feed him when I'm bottle feeding him, hence stuffing more formula inside him than necessary. He then sleeps for far too long and has missed a few breastfeeds. DH has also started doing that now and I'm wondering if I'm the only cruel one trying to starve my DS2!

Why isn't my milk supply increasing?! His top-ups are increasing at an alarming rate and there is no way I can catch up. But if he doesn't get his top-ups he screams the house down and with so many visitors around and a toddler trying to sleep I cannot just let him scream. Have been talking about giving up BF for quite a few days now but would really love to continue BF if possible.. any advise appreciated.

:( :(

You have had a massive struggle, anon, that's for sure.

I was not meaning an observer to watch you latch the baby on. I was meaning someone to help you formulate a plan to reduce the top ups.

You have always kept up breastfeeding, but from what you say in your OP you were topping up from the very start and by 10 days, your baby was having 90 mls of formula at each feed....and the top ups of formula were increasing. Very few mothers can establish full breastfeeding when that's going on, unless something changes radically.

You were in an atmosphere of 'help' that was seriously undermining to breastfeeding, and your healthcare professional help was dire, too.

This has not been tackled properly, and not enough changes have happened....this is why the struggle is still happening :(

Anon , I really feel for you. I was just looking through the posts I made soon after my DD was born. It's amazing how quickly you forget, and how useful MN is for jogging your memory - like an online diary! I see that at 3 or 4 weeks, and for quite some time after, my DD was wanting to comfort suck pretty much all day long. So while there are clearly issues with your supply that need resolving ASAP, it is also possible that not all the time on the breast is because he is wanting milk. Sometimes he may just want you and that might be the case even if you were EBF.

I totally agree with tiktok that you need a plan to turn this around, if you still want to, but I just wanted to reassure you that he may not be on the breast for hours at a time simply trying to fill his tummy. But those hours should be helping to increase your supply and they probably are. Are you still having to increase the amount of formula he gets or is that now static?

tiktok Whenever I explain my problem, the counsellors always tackle the latch issue first even though I mentioned wanting a plan to cut down on FF. This takes forever and DS2 always cries when I'm on the phone, so I was told to ring back. Will have to when I get another chance today.

gaelicsheep Initially I was too brave, cut down his FF by around 4+oz in total and noticed he was feeding loads and better off me. That was the day I thought his wet nappies had decreased and felt really guilty. But the next day he seemed better and had plenty of wet nappies again so I didn't really have to increase his FF. This stayed static till last weekend when he suddenly increased his topup by 4oz again, I was messing about looking after DS1 and DH though so perhaps I hadn't fed him enough. Yesterday, having improved my latch(again) and switching between breasts to increase supply, it went back down to the previous amount. So it's up and static but never truly down.

Hi anon, I've been reading your thread and I just wanted to say how amazing you have been in feeding your baby. BF'ing is hard work and there is nothing worse than hearing your baby cry because he is hungry when you have spent all day feeding.You are doing fantastically well.

I am BF'ing DS, and he had formula top ups in the early days which we had to struggle to wean him off. As others have said, I found help in real life invaluable - i found that having a BF supporter come to the house helped me a lot. She wasn't particularly "observing" just chatting to me whilst I fed him, and reassuring me if I was struggling. It just helped me to stay calmer, which helped DS stay calmer which made BF'ing better all round.

DS is now 14 weeks and I BF exclusively. Its still hard on some days - after a cold, or injections he tends to "forget" how to feed, and it feels like I've gone back to square one. I tend to babymoon him - a couple of days skin to skin, feet up in bed or on the sofa, and just accept that he will feed for about 20 mins every hour or so. Also, i find feeding him in a really quiet room so there is nothing to distract him helps. Also, I used to do the 2, 3 hour feeding sessions. I was advised to feed for 10 mins, and then stop if he is not feeding properly, give him to someone else to hold for 10-15 mins, and then try again. That worked well for us.

good luck!

That does sound positive though Anon. There will be a time lag while you catch up with his new requirements if he has a bit of a growth spurt. As I've said before I'm no expert, but I would have thought it's a good sign that you are not constantly increasing the formula. Your breastmilk must be making up the difference as he grows. So it's going in the right direction.

Can you not ring the same counsellor back on a direct line so you can pick up where you left off? I know the ABM counsellors publish their own phone numbers in the ABM magazine so I would think they would be OK with giving you their direct number? Is it too awkward just yet to phone while you're feeding (to keep your DS2 quiet)?

angryGnome, didn't think they'd still forget after 14 weeks. Glad I'm not the only one doing 3, 4 hour sessions.

gaelicsheep, went to BF support group which was great. Brought up the formula issue again but solution suggested was just to slowly cut down as per kellymom website. It was nice though. just sitting down with other BF mums and finding out we're all going through the same struggles. Think I will continue with this group as I'll have access to NCT supporters and counsellors. :)

Thats great anon, there really is no substitute for good RL advice. As good as this forum, kellymom etc etc are seeing someone face to face is so much better as they can see the whole picture IYSWIM. I'm so pleased you have found a source of support. Keep up the good work, and in a few weeks you'll be out of the other side of this and helping someone in your group who is going through the same thing.

Glad you are meeting people IRL. It might take longer thsn expected to cut back, but every breastmilk feed means ds is getting your antibodies etc. x

How are you getting on now?

I'm still BF and FF. Even though I'm offering BF up to 10 times a day now and expressing once during the evening, DS2's FF has increased massively(20oz yesterday). I'm not catching up despite a good latch, constant BF and desperate attempt to reduce formula, apart from evenings when he fusses and refuses to feed off me but presumably that's when my supply is at it's lowest, so that's when I express.

I took fenugreek tablets up to the recommended dose few days ago but had a real scare yesterday - LOADS of blood in stool so doctor has ordered me to stop taking the tablets and I'm now having to send samples in to check for internal bleeding. DH has been asking me to stop BF all along but is now pleading so I think I'm going to have to slowly wean DS2 off BF and will probably finish at around week 8 or 9. It's really sad but I think I've given it my very best. I've also really bonded with him(didn't bond at the beginning with DS1 as had EMCS, unwell and then failed BF), so I'm really pleased. I would've stopped at 10 days if not because of MN so thank you all for support. :)

Don't forget that you have a third option - if you are having difficulty with bf but you still want your DS to have bm, then you could express milk and bottle feed him...

Sorry I didn't get back to you yesterday. Sorry to hear things aren't going so well, you need to do what's best for you and your family. Your ds will have had benefit from your bm. You could continue to mix feed either permanently or until your milk dries up rather than just go cold turkey on the bm.

Let us know how you get on whatever happens. You are amazing for how hard you have worked for him. xxx