Is formula feeding a feminist act?

[FeelLikeTweedleDee]

Excuse me as I'm high on Lemsip so my musings may seem unusual - I've been thinking about womens motivations for NOT breastfeeding.

Out of all the pregnant women I have spoken to who plan to formula feed from birth, the most common reason given is "I don't think it's fair that I should have to do all the feeds/shoulder all the responsibility for our baby's nutrition" which is an argument I can sympathise with. I understand the lactivists response: "there is so much more a man can do than feeding" but one must admit, feeding is pretty much the bulk of what a newborn needs. It also ties the mother to the baby in an exclusive manner which nappy changing, soothing, playing, etc does not.

I admit (online only because I'm a pussy) that women who chose not to breastfeed before even giving birth used to anger me. I couldn't understand why they would not put their baby's needs first. Why they wouldn't even give breastfeeding a shot? But perhaps sexual equality is sound reasoning?

What is your opinion on womens non-medical motivations for not breastfeeding?

If you're thinking "it's none of your business what feeding choices other mothers make", I disagree. Formula feeding costs the taxpayer a substantial sum every year re: NHS resources as well as its impact on the environment, etc. Thus womens non-medical reasons for not breastfeeding is an important issue.

Sorry, took me a while to write my last post and the thread moved on in the meantime.

I agree with toddlerwrangler that reading critically is important, but you seem to be starting from the point of view that PoB must be wrong. She backs up her chapters on unethical practices by formula companies very well indeed - those of her references that I've followed up stand up perfectly well.

Having said that, although I was very impressed by most of it (except the bit about what a marvellous bonding thing BF is, which didn't chime with my experience), like others on here I'm a bit troubled by the suggestion that women should be in jobs that are compatible with BF. Mine isn't and never could be (don't want to say what it is as I'd be outing myself), and to be honest I wouldn't want it to be - I want to be able to go to work and focus on work, as the job takes total concentration. No doubt that's a limitation in me, but there we are.

Petsville, you said "And I'm not sure that "diddums" is necessarily a fair response to a father who wants to be able to share the care of his child and is worried about his wife cracking up from exhaustion."

No, it wouldn't be a fair response. I made the response not to that, but to your comment that fathers may feel 'disenfranchised' because they can't breastfeed.

Nothing about sharing the care and worries about exhaustion.

Don't move the flippin goalposta.

Sorry, cross-posted. I don't think anyone here is putting PoB on a pedestal - are you saying you would never recommend any book to anyone?

Again @ Petsville: "Not disagreeing that babies need to be loved, cuddled and securely attached to their parents (both parents, not just the mother), but I don't think FF babies are necessarily less so"

No one has said ff babies are less bonded. In fact my point was precisely that fathers do not need to worry they are not bonded if they don't breastfeed. Because it's the quality of the interaction that creates the attachment, not the method of feeding.

Sorry, I didn't intend to move the goalposts - I didn't read your comment carefully enough. Sleep deprivation again. I can't comment on what DH meant by "disenfranchised" - will have to ask him or get him to come back.

TW, there is plenty of documentary evidence that formula is marketed unethically, and that this is a political issue. PofB is prob the most accessible academic publication in the field, that's all, not the only book/paper in the field.

But you know....lets not bother reading anything at all, shall we? We might get seduced by the author's bias and put things on a pedestal and not question them because we have been made blind.

Let's just form our opinions and learn about the world and societies outside our own direct experience by....um, how would you suggest we do this, TW?

Petsville - usually, 'disenfranchised' means 'made powerless' (when it's not meant literally).

To which I still say 'oh diddums' and wonder why a grown up adult person would put such feelings ahead of a tiny baby's needs.

tiktok, I think we're probably fundamentally in agreement about the quality of interaction being the important thing. I was trying (obviously not very clearly) to explain that in my particular case, BF has actually got in the way of bonding. I don't want to try to generalise from that, because it's only my experience, and I may be a uniquely horrible freak.

Meant to add, and of course it's affected DH's experience too. And I think "made powerless" is about right to describe how you might feel faced with a screaming hungry baby and not being able to do anything to help because the food supply has gone out to a necessary work meeting and the baby won't take a bottle of EBM. The problem is the inability to satisfy the baby's needs, not the adult's feelings.

Well put, Petsville, I see what you mean :)

Sigh. Never going to get anywhere, so am adding this to my (large) agree to disagree pile!!!!

I think it is my job that makes me so mistrusting of information presented to me as fact, however well researched, official and allegedly trustworthy the source. I dont like any one document book, howeve well resourced, being put on a pedastal but thats a whole other thread I suspect!

TW, why are you continuing to send identical posts??

toktok: Blimey - MN (sneekily) on your mobile at work is dangerous! Don't quite know what went on to be honest, I'm sure I only pressed post once.

Agree I look a bit hardcore. Not meant, blame it on the phone.

I think that feeding a baby takes up such a small proportion of time in our lifetime that I think it's a shame women feel tied to it and worn down by it. I think the time with a small baby should be cherished because you never get it back again. I worry that in today's society we spend too much time wishing what we could be doing rather than just living in and enjoying the moment...

Many friends have remarked that my DP must feel left out as I EBF. But actually I don't want him to have a look in, I feel it's my job that only I can do and I certainly don't want it taking away from me.

Rimsky - I too have heard of people remarking about Males feeling left out. Utter rot I say there is so much else that fathers can do to support and look after a babt.

there are so so many things a father can do. i ebf my ds and my dh did LOADS! tiny DS would lie on DHs lap after feeds and talk to him for a start! take him out for walks, show him things, read to him. and anyway, DH went back to work after two weeks so couldn't have fed him anyway and it wouldn't have been fair to make him get up and do night feeds once he was back at work so all in all that is a complete load of bollox!

Sorry ruby having a pmsl moment that on a "feminist issue" you feel your husbands sleep is more important than yours To use a previous posters phrase - poor diddums having to work during the day then get up at night to feed a baby

wiggles - I am a radical feminist and all but with dh doing a job that uses his brain and me just chilling out with a newborn I also preferred to do the nights myself. If dh's performance at work nosedives it's risky for the family as a whole but I tend to find the newborn stage pretty easy so in those circs I can manage quite well without sleep.
I don't think for a moment there should always be a presumption in favour of the man or even the breadwinner having the undisturbed nights, but in certain circumstances it can be the wisest option.

seth, I'm with you here - my job involves using my brain (and is distinctly insecure at the moment) and DH and I have agreed that once I go back to work and he's at home with DS I have to have a decent amount of sleep on work nights. I'll take over on nights when I'm not working the next day. Which is why it's so frustrating that DS won't take a bottle: it's not a question of DH being left out, it's a question of my being able to leave the sodding house for more than two hours without the baby, to earn the money to keep the roof over all our heads. I really, really wish I hadn't BF for that reason (not to mention that I've been stuck doing all the nights for the past 5 months and am going mad), but we hadn't realised bottle refusal was so likely.

hi wiggles - so my dh had it easy then lol. would it be fair to make him get up when he's got to go to work and i can mooch about and sleep when the baby sleeps???

wiggles - is feminism to you being really mean to your man lolol

Ruby No but you are very lucky you can mooch about and sleep when the baby sleeps, and I don't think its being mean to "my man" expecting him to get up with our baby at night, I'm assuming you wouldn't think it was mean to ask him at weekends or when he's off work.

Getting up in the night to make and feed a bottle is much more hassle than pulling the baby towards you and dozing - would have made no sense to have DP get up in the night whereas I could feed the baby without getting up.

Ah, some of us have never managed the co-sleeping business: I can't sleep at all with DS in the bed with me, so I have to get up every time.