Following on from the webchat... succeeding second time success stories please!

[Serendippy]

Really want to hear from people who wanted to BF DC1 but failed for whatever reason but succeeded second (or third or fourth) time. Please tell me what made the difference! We are trying for a baby, might even be pregnant but that's another thread and really really want to make a success of BF this time. All tips welcome, thanks.

Hi. I had a disastrous time attempting to bf ds. Cracked nipples. Mastitis. His weight loss. Gave up at 3 weeks and I wasn't even engorged so clearly my supply had crashed. I was really scared with dc2 and almost didn't try as thought I'd fail again. But I ebf until solids at 22 weeks (was when advice was 4-6 months). She never had formula and fed until she was 14 months. Dd2 is now 5.5 months and is ebf and I'm not starting solids for another 2 weeks at least.

What was different? I had ridiculously wrong expectations with ds - knew nothing about cluster feeding or growth spurts. So if he looked for food within 3 hours I assumed he wasn't hungry. The latch was never right despite being told it was. My right nipple has cracked with all three - my right boob is saggier and bigger and they all preferred the other one. The difference second time was when it cracked it was treated quickly and I was taught how to latch. The crack this time happened due to the 12 week growth spurt all night feeds and me being a bit lazy when latching. I knew what to do though and sorted it.

So basically support, knowledge, managing expectations and doing nothing but bf to start despite the housework and washing that worried me first time.

Hth.

Thanks for the reply. One of my main problems was being told by some that BF doesn't hurt if you do it properly and by others that it will hurt at first because it is a new experience and your nipples need to 'toughen up'. It was painful but not unmanageably so in the hospital but I was told this was to be expected, however by day 3 it was agony and was at home without the constant support. Never got it right and was FF at 3 months.

Who taught you how to latch? Is it supposed to hurt?

I get a fairly painful let down at the very start of feeding so had some discomfort but it effects both nipples at the same time when the milk starts flowing. Any pain effecting just one nipple is a warning sign for me. Also pain that lasts longer than a few seconds at the start of a feed is a bad sign. Your nipples do not need toughening up at all - that's nonsense. One of the most useful things I found was to look at the nipples after every feed and diagnose if the latch had been good or not. If the nipple comes out like a lipstick (straight on one side) or in any other way asymmetrical it wasn't a good latch. I stayed in hospital longer with dd1 than with ds to get some bf advice. Also you tube is pretty good for latch advice. This time I did biological nurturing with dd2 and that worked well. Any sign of trauma needs treating asap and I used lansinoh liberally before and after feeds. There is some useless advice with many mws, hvs unfortunately. I'd access a prenatal appointment with a lactation consultant if I were you to get more expert advice.

Oh gosh, it's really too late for me to start on this. Here's the brief version.

BF DS was a disaster. He had an undiagnosed tongue tie (found out at 4.5 months - too late!) and feeding was sooo painful. Everyone said the latch was just fine, but I was in agony. I had to give in to some bottles after only a week, we mix fed with some breast, some EBM and some formula for 3 months then b/f came to an end.

So, second time around my attitude was "well, I'll try it, but I won't beat myself up if it doesn't work out". Ha ha.

With DD it started much better, but she had some of the same issues as DS - refusal to latch on, absolute killer suck, gave me cracked nipples on day one, blah di blah. At 2 weeks it started to all fall apart when she went on nursing strike for two days. I expressed as much as I could, but had to give a couple of bottles of formula.

Anyhow, fast forwarding. Gave night time bottles for 3 months because latching was so difficult and feeding was very painful. Went back to EBF at 12 weeks. Shamelessly used nipple shields to cope with the killer suck and cracked nipples. Dropped these at 14 weeks. I hit many walls, decided to stop b/f no less than 3 times. Now DD is 20 weeks and we're still going strong.

Now to your question, what made the difference? Well it absolutely wasn't a more relaxed attitude, because if anything I was more hett up than I was the first time around. I couldn't believe I could fail with two of them. I would say I was better informed, I had MN from the word go (found it too late with DS). I also totally ignored the advice about not using bottles or nipple shields and did not accept that it would inevitably be downhill from there - it wasn't. I hate to say it, because I used to hate others saying it - I was bloody minded about it and very very determined to succeed. Most crucially of all - DD did not have a tongue tie. First time around, with the undiagnosed tt, I didn't have a hope really.

Sorry, that wasn't brief!

Hiya, my DD didn't bf. I wanted to but she just wouldn't latch on. We tried all sorts of different things with various midwives, peer to peer supporters etc but nothing worked. I expressed every feed for 6 weeks but my supply just dried up and we had to switch to formula. When I had DS, I just assumed I wouldn't be able to bf but he just latched on in the recovery room (CS) and has fed beautifully ever since. He's 6 months now and still ebf. I think what made the difference for me was much better postnatal support second time round

• I was helped to find better bf positions, shown how to cosleep and feed, and midwives with more time to spend helping. Also, I had terribly cracked nipples both times, but never managed to recover first time (I find Lansinoh does nothing for me) but splashed out on silverettes second time round which were really fab. Sounds trivial but I would have found it much easier to persevere if I'd been in less pain.

Also, both DH and I were a lot more knowledgeable with DS, mostly due to MN, which was hugeley helpful. It was actually DH that got DS's latch sorted!

Sorry if my first post wasn't that coherent, I was typing on my phone while feeding DS! With DD, I did get lots of good support but after I had left hospital. In hospital, I was only shown the 'traditional' way of feeding which wasn't much use for me and my very large breasts really. Hardly anyone could spare any time to help me, and when they did they would kind of ram her at my breast and then give up :( I think she started to get a bit freaked out by it and for a long time would scream if she was put anywhere near my breasts :(

With DS, the help was loads better and they showed me the underarm hold, suggested I could feed better lying down and were really happy to spend time helping. Same hospital, sometimes the same staff but two years apart.

There were numerous small things that made a difference I think really. I'm so thrilled I've been able to feed DS, it's amazing. I really never thought I'd be able to. First time round they told me I probably couldn't bf because my nipples were too large .

I would happily punch anyone who tells me 'if you are doing it right it doesn't hurt' as for some people it does and they just end up being made to feel indequate as a result.

I am now bf dd2 (having bf dd1 for 6 months through cracks, blocked ducts and thrush) with no problems at all but it did hurt for the first 2 weeks despite a correct latch but we are through that now.

The information pg mums are given doesn't emphasise enough that this is something both you and your baby need to learn, it is natural and wonderful but not easy.

Thanks for all the replies. Am considering paying for some private help next time so I can have someone with me for most feeds. Because they told me it would hurt, I didn't complain as much as I should have done meaning that it became unbearable and they then discovered that the latch was not right. Because I had left hospital by this point, there was only help available once a week at a cafe, midwife visits but she couldn't stay all day and on the end of a phone. Anyone had experience of paying for private help or should I try and demand to stay in hospital for 5 days?

re the pain, I was told latch was fine, should be no pain etc etc - by every midwife & health visitor in UK we saw (and I saw a few).

Finally I went to visit my family in NZ and I saw my step-Mum who is also a midwife when DD was 9 weeks old - she picked up straight away DD was mildly tounge tied, hence the pain I had been in feeding her.

I'm so glad I perservered with the BF though - and at about 10 weeks DD developed & the situation vastly improved and pain left & from then on BF was wholly positive experience. Fed until 14 months. Hoping for the same with this one.

LUCAS PAWPAW OPINTMENT got me through - it was given to me by an Aussie friend with 9 sisters, who had all BF. Yes I know it is evil and has petroleum jelly in it, but damn it sort out those nips let me tell you - you can actually get PJ free ones now in the UK too - I'll go for one of those next time.

[[http://www.pawpawstore.co.uk/category1_1.htm
PawPaw store]]

Agree with secondcoming, I also get really annoyed when people say "If you're doing it right it doesn't hurt". I think this probably accounts for a lot of mothers stopping sooner than they would like as they assume they are doing it wrong. My let-down reflex was painful for a long time, two months at least. It was only about 10 seconds at the beginning of a feed but it really was toe-curling and I would hold my breath till it passed. Because I knew I was doing everything right. I knew the latch was right. I knew baby was feeding well. You do eventually get used to it and it just becomes a strong sensation rather than a pain. I also had a cracked nipple during the second week and, yes, this was the result of poor latching which I got sorted out. But these are totally normal things which everyone experiences.

Feeeding on demand is absolutely the way to go - always assume they are hungry and don't waste hours pacing the floors obsessing over wind. Far better to lie awake in bed feeding peacefully than shushing, patting and singing lullabies till you want to scream!

Breastfeeding is easy-peasy and fantastically convenient once you're into the swing of it but I really believe that for the first couple of months it requires total committment and dedication, the like of which many women just aren't prepared for. But it is so so worth it if you succeed.

I guess the campaign posters can't say "Breastfeeding hurts, but you'll get used to it" but I do wish HVs, GPs and midwives would be a bit more honest about what it's really like.

The other thing no-one mentions, is that while babies are born with an instinct to suck, they don't necessarily have a perfect latch themselves to start with - baby also needs time and you learn together.

I managed 18 weeks with DD and second time managed 14 weeks with DS

My problem was entertaining the toddler second time round. I actually found i had more milk and it was easier but toddler would not let me spend the time needed to feed on demand.

I did find (and a lot will disagree with me) that a dummy helped me get to 14 weeks. Afer 40/50 min feed I would give it to him, whereas with DD I mistook her suckiness/need for comfort with hunger/low supply and she would feed for up to 3 hours at a time!!

I had a miserable time feeding DD, we couldn't get the latch right plus constant engorgement and I couldn't access any help (we were in London, all the bfcs I had details of were in the CC zone and I couldn't face travelling by bus/train with a very small newborn and stitches).

Second time, I'd found MN, I'd seen lots of people do it so I was aware of some of hte problems and I had a list of all the babycafes plus transport options including train times all in my hospital folder.

When the latch didn't feel quite right, I immediately looked for help with it rather than assuming it was just me being a bit rubbish.

I fed DD exclusively for 6 days, mixed for 4 months and with DS am still going strong at 13 months.

Some women do experience pain in the first few days of breastfeeding, sometimes into weeks. But you should always, always get the latch and positioning checked out - treat it at a warning sign, double warning sign if there is any trauma to your nipples e.g. cracks, grazes, bruising, or any issue in the breast: lumps that don't go at a feed, red streaks.

For a small category of women there is some pain that persists beyond the first week even when latch is adjusted and baby is efficient at milk removal. Often this is caused by painful letdown, some issue like vasospasm in the nipple, or something undiagnosed in the baby, occasionally thrush. It should still be checked.

There will then be another group of women, most commonly due to Reynauds of the nipple that have pain for the whole time they feed, but if there is any trauma to the nipple in that time, again it will be latch.

Sorry just nipples can get into terrible states because women believe 'it does/should hurt'.

For me there was no pain at all feeding my first, but I found it incredibly hard and stressful. It was much better the second time round! And the third.

First time round with DD1 I struggled and did a combination of feeding until she was 16 weeks and went onto FF. With DS1 it was totally different. I was more chilled out and comfortable to feed in public (which I hadn't been before) and I did not get hung up on 'how much' he had taken. Best of all was the support I got from the breast feeding counsellor at the hospital who spent an hour with me watching him feed and helping me improve the latch etc. She really boosted my confidence and I can honestly say it was a fantastic experience and I fed him until he was 15 months.

This is really useful, I'm 33 weeks pg and hoping to bf better this time. I only fed dd for just over a week, nipples bleeding and cracked and v painful, dd started to get anxious when latching on and would start to latch, then pull away, then start again, etc which made it worse. I was told my latch was fine.

It wasn't helped by my emotional state at the time, my grandmother (who I'd lived with and was v close too) died when dd was 3 days old, so I was a wreck emotionally, was crying whenever I had to feed dd, and dh said something had to give, he was right, so the bf stopped.
Hoping I'll be in a better state emotionally this time, and I plan to feed more often this time and do less. I also have lasinoh ointment which I plan to use from the start rather than driving to tesco in desperation with tiny dd as I did last time, followed by bf in the car park!
I'm going to a mw run breastfeeding workshop next week which I'm hoping will give me some pointers but I don't want to stay in hospital long as I'll want to be with dd (5) and ds is due on boxing day!
I'll be keeping a close watch on this thread for any other advice.

Read this blog post by a mum who battled first time round and gave up within a week and was determined to make it work second time round. Her daughter is now 17 months old and she's still breastfeeding her

DD1 - sturggled with her latch and teh only support I had was from my midwife once a week. I expressed for 7 weeks then gave up completely.

DD2 - didn't get to hold her for a few hours as I was too weak and no one noticed. struggled again and overbearing midwives put me off and she was FF tilll they let us go home and then we worked on it. My Dh sent me to bed with her for a couple of days while he did everything else, and we got the hang of it by the time she was a month old.

DS - had a home birth and skin to skin straight away snuggled up in our own bed for hours at a time and have had no problems at all, nealy 6 months now.

I think the difference was my confidence and being in my own home and in control instesad of in hospital and feeling like i had to 'do what i was told'