Following on from the webchat... succeeding second time success stories please!

[Serendippy]

Really want to hear from people who wanted to BF DC1 but failed for whatever reason but succeeded second (or third or fourth) time. Please tell me what made the difference! We are trying for a baby, might even be pregnant but that's another thread and really really want to make a success of BF this time. All tips welcome, thanks.

I had good experience. Some bruising first day but no probs in 11 months with feeding/nipple pain. So it's not helpful when people say to quote one post: "one has to endure sort of 3 weeks of (some) pain"

Not everyone does. Be realistic, you might, but you should definitely seek good advice if you do.

Advice in UK (I'm English but had DS in US) seems to be very patchy and contradictory. And we've all become obsessed with fashionable books / NCT peer pressure instead of using our own iniative as mothers.

DS used to lose concentration so instead of 'feeding for 20 minutes on each side until breast is empty (like there's a gauge!) as per most current advice, I used to switch from one to the other and back. I later found this 'method' in a 1970s book someone lent me. I guess my point is really that it can help to relax, and listen to your own maternal instinct, in addition to getting well informed.

I fed on demand (and no, cluster feeding isn't constant feeding, it's feeding more often at certain times mostly evening), but I was also strongly advised to look for the difference between proper feeding (listen for the swallow and little exhalation), and comfort sucking. And try to limit the latter. If baby is just messing for 40 mins you are more likely to get sore. If you are hung up on giving exactly x amount of time, you might find yourself getting chewed more than you really need!

I was told they need about 5 mins only in the first few days at least, yet have seen friends struggling to feed newborns for the regulation 20 mins a side and wondering why they're getting so sore and baby not feeding, getting totally discouraged.

Sorry, long post, but I get upset seeing people stressing needlessly because of bad advice / peer pressure. I accept there was an element of luck for me, and people do have real medical reasons for having a hard time. I'm hoping DC2 due soon will be as easy but appreciate she could be completely different, as was the pregnancy!

I BF DS2 for nearly 8 months - only stopped because I couldn't cope with DS biting me any longer!

With DS1 I BF for 5 months (till weaned) but struggled for most of that time.

with second DC I;

was more relaxed

had found mumsnet & kellymom

A "breast friends" group started up at my local children's centre, which was run by an NCT advisor - they actively encouraged pregnant mums to visit as well as BF mums.

I also spent a lot of time reading online & figuring out where I had gone wrong the first time.

DS now 3.5yrs would not latch properly think he managed twice in 6 days, blood sugar dropped, he went jaundice and ended up ff.

DD is 20weeks and latched on straight away from birth and been breastfed ever since, 75th percentile for weight and doing great :-)

Forgot to say I did nothing differently, DS just wouldnt do it!

Gave up after 3 weeks with DD1.

My milk just never seemed to "come in" if thats the right phrase! My breasts were soft all the time. Midwives said it was because i'd had a traumatic birth experience!

I felt a total failure everytime I gave her a bottle.

The second time I BF until 16 months

The differences-

Was much more confident about how I wanted to feed, not listening to midwives who, going by my first experience didnt know what they were talking about. The main thing being feeding on demand. The first time I was told to feed every 4 hours unfortunately I belived them.

Read a couple of fantastic books [sorry cant remember their names] which explained everything clearly, before giving birth.

I BF both mine for 8 months. With DS it was hell, I hated it. With DD nearly 3 eyars later so, so different. A breeze.

DS1 I gave up at 4w. DS2 I fed to 10.5m, when I was more or less ready to stop.

What was different? Education. Realising babies fed on demand and not on schedule, that night time feeds were especially important. Co-sleeping. Determination. Prewarning of how sleepless nights can be from the 1st. The toddler running round me which meant i had no time to do bottles or formula and shoving a boob in his mouth was far easier.

First time didn't work out for me - DD just wouldn't stay latched on, used to scream and get so upset, I couldn't bear it and switched to formula after 10 miserable days of trying, and crying. And mastitis.

With DS it just worked out. He seemed to take to it so much more easily. I think I felt more confident, I didn't feel under the same kind of pressure. I got better help at the hospital - made sure I saw someone who was trained in bf counselling. I had to stay in hospital for a few days so it was all quite established by the time I left.

Still bf my DS 13 months later!

Best of luck to you Serendippy x

and I also think that having skin to skin within an hour of delivery (both cs) made a big difference - DS1 was dressed when I got to recovery, DS2 wasnt

I managed 10 days with DS, before I had to call it a day. Had such a nightmare that my abiding memory s standing, sobbing having to shower my breast pads off as my nipples were bleeding so much the pads had stuck on. DS lost well over 10% of his body weight. Breast feeding was more painful than labour for me (and I had two back to back labours....)

Turns out his jaw was dislocated by the forceps and he couldn't latch. Not one health professional who tried to 'help' looked at him to check that he actually could latch. By the time the cranial osteopath had 'popped' it back in after about 3 weeks, I was too upset and traumatised to go back to BF so he was FF from 10 days.

Fast forward two and a half years to DD and she latched like a pro and we fed exclusively for 14 months! I'm not saying it was all completely painless (Lansinoh was my friend! ) but it was such a breeze compared to DS. I'm so glad that I persevered with her as it really started to heal me psychologically. I was (and still am a little bit, if I'm honest) traumatised by the experience with DS.

I just went to it with DD with a determination that it is what I wanted to do. DH was a little about it all as it really frightened him seeing me like I was with DS. I think if he's honest, he would have preferred me to FF DD. However, he was more than supportive with me. I would have gone ahead regardless, but was nice to have his support.

I wish you every bit of luck with it second time round. As long as you have support and phone numbers, Lansinoh and Lansinoh pads (they are, by far, the best) then you have every chance of succeeding

With DS I just couldn't get him to latch on. I managed about 2 weeks before giving it up due to bleeding nipples. Where I lived at the time had no support groups and when I asked the midwives for help, they told me to put him on the bottle.

Second time around - and living in a different area, I had brilliant & supportive midwives and a really good local support group. I still had bleeding nipples at the start, but this time had loads of support. I'm still bf-ing and LO is nearly 1.

Good look second time around. I second, third and Fouth using Lansinoh. Kept me breastfeeding as it blooming well works!!

DC1; No probs.

DC2; Cracked and very sore nipples caused by poor latch. Didn't think I should ask for help as I'd had no probs before. Got help when I could no longer lift him. Should have asked earlier.

DC3; Bloody awful. Sheer hell. Mastitis, cracked nips, thrush. I only persevered because I had booked a camping trip, and didn't think one could ff in a tent.

So,it got harder for me, but each baby is different. Glad I kept it up.

Just don't be afraid to ask for help!

Oh this is a good one.
DD1 I was routine obsessed, believed bottle fed babies slept better and viewed sleep as the bee all and end all.
DD2

1. I spoke to lots of nice people on here TikTok where are you!
2. Forget routines and 4hrly feeding.
3. Get help from Bussom Buddies before the birth, meet lots of other breastfeeding mums who can help support you in real life.
4. I tried expressing before the birth!
5. I realised that rooming in is essential for good breastfeeding, as is demand feeding and lots of cuddles/skin to skin.
6. I realised that pain is not normal and that if it hurts the latch is probably wrong.
7. I decided to feed lying down in bed and snooze while feeding which was a godsend. Without doing this I would have been exhausted but as it happens I got more sleep than I had bottle feeding DD1.
8. Go to an NCT antenatal class if possible.
9. Watch the inspirational dvd of the baby making its way to the breast for the first time - amazing .

Here video.aol.co.uk/video-detail/breast-crawl-initiation-of-the-breast-crawl-unicef/868141256

Haven't read all posts but just wanted to say YES it was so much easier the second time!

DD1 was born by CS then spent 2 days in SCBU, by the time I got her back I was in agony and my boobs so swollen she couldn't latch on. Because of jaundice the hospital said she had to have a regular thruoghput of milk so I had to cup feed her formula while also trying and failing to BF. Not a great start- I remeber weeping over her little body because it just wasn't working and she wasn't putting on much weight. We limped on until about 9 weeks then I switched to bottles.

DD2 was also CS (this makes a difference I think because the drugs can delay the milk coming in) but I was so determined not to repeat the process that I doggedly put her on the breast again and again. After a few days my nipples were cracked and bleeding but I persisted and within a short time it was working beautifully and continued for the full 6 months. (I only stopped bec I went back to work).

I think a key factor the second time was that I knew it would hurt for a while and that didn't mean I was doing it wrong. I also discovered lansinoh nipple cream- a godsend- and used lilypadz instead of those godawful rustling breast pads.

Good luck when the time comes (hopefully in about 9 months!

another one here

ds1 - tongue tie, i had totally unrealistic expectations of feeding pattern, didn't realise baby could be hungry every hour, didn't feed enough, he fell down centile chart, no support from family so i ended up mix feeding. After 2 weeks of that he refused the breast (at 4 months)

ds2 - i was better informed and more determined. fed until last month, he is nearly 3 years. I stopped at my dh's insistance sounds crap that doesn't it - another story! he had occasional ff early on as i was not confident i could do it, but i easily dropped that and moved to ebf.

ds3 - nearly 6 months, exclusively bf. even more confidence, and better supply i think, more relaxed, more belief i could do it. home birth helped too and co-sleeping.

also, i found the politics of breastfeeding a very inspiring and empowering book.

I used to pull DD2 lip down to get her to latch properly - never condoned by health visitors but it worked. I was one of those annoying woman who could bf one handed whilst walking around typing on mn ... and I found it hard to start with, had cracked nips, toe curling pain whenever they went through growth spurts, burning boobs the lot ... I agree that it is a skill to be learned and I think I had a lucky head start being the youngest of a large family and having seen all my nieces and nephews bf from a young age - I think it is completely unfair the expectation that people should just know what to do.

I agree with the lilypadz and lansinoh!

Interesting in the light of the discussion earlier today on this thread:

Pendulum - "the second time was that I knew it would hurt for a while and that didn't mean I was doing it wrong."

thecaptaincrocfamily - "I realised that pain is not normal and that if it hurts the latch is probably wrong."

Who'd be a writer of healthcare literature?!

If babies are nipple sucking rather than latching with a wide mouth they are likely positioned wrong - that is evidenced based. It also hurts if engorged so expressing a little by hand works before feeding helps. It can also hurt if you have mastitis. Under normal circs it does not hurt if done correctly - that is evidence based btw.

Remember 'nose to nipple' which encourages them to open their motuh well and 'tummy to tummy' means they are aligned, not turning sideways. Watch back position while sitting and use a supporting pillow if necessary.

I wasn't criticising captaincroc. Just observing how differently people can experience things, and how different their conclusions can be.

As I said earlier, it still hurts for me to some extent at 20 weeks - painful letdown I think. If she decides to nipple feed then that really hurts. Someone said earlier that their bfc said for about 20% of women it will still hurt even when done correctly. That would certainly fit with my own experience.

gaelic I do understand what you mean regarding let down, some women just experience tingling, others it is more pain. I think lots depends on the preparation of the experience before birth, women who expect 'tingling' don't report 'pain' so much. I also think there is a difference between first and second time mums experiences.
DD1 was painful for many reasons.
DD2 was tingling on let down.

I really meant it when I said who'd be a writer of healthcare literature.

With DS it was agonising a lot of the time.

With DD it was just painful, but I was expecting it to be agonising so I didn't recognise that painful meant nipple trauma. Latch now sorted (when DD cooperates), not painful now I suppose just pretty darned uncomfortable sometimes.

Actually, I think more could be made of how the nipples appear at the end of the feed, rather than focussing on pain as such. One person's pain is another's discomfort I suppose. Is it Janet Balarkas, or another natural birth guru, who tells women to expect "some discomfort" towards the end of the first stage!

gaelic that is a good point about the nipples at the end of a feed, it is now a question asked. If nipple remains pointed then the latch is probably not right. Nipple suckling.

I fed both of mine and both times it was very painful for several weeks, and in fact it was worse 2nd time round to start off with - cracked nipples and bleeding then dd refused to feed at 5 days old. The big difference was that I was expecting it, knew who to call and had a stack of numbers ready, went straight on Mumsnet for advice too, got the midwife round immediately, spoke to the breastfeeding consultant on the phone and went to her group as soon as I could. And saw her several times over the next 18 months as different challenges made it hard again (hip spica just as we'd got the positioning right, then refusing bottle when I went back to work - and eventually refusing to stop!)

First time round I thought I was doing it wrong and hadn't read the books properly, and struggled on in lonely despair for a while. Second time round I knew it could be hard at times, it wasn't my fault, and my job wasn't to 'get it right' but it was to 'get help' whenever we needed it.

Ds1 - a nightmare.

He was sleepy, wouldn't latch and when he did eventually he clamped.

I listened to those around me saying bf was too hard/too tying/etc.

Had dreadful advice from mws.

Thought bottle was almost as good as bfing.

Routine/sleep obsessed.

Terrified of taking baby into bed.

Thought that if things were bad at the start, they would ever be thus.

Read (and believed) several baby guru books.

Ds2 -

Mumsnet discovered a few years beforehand.

Lots of bfing frineds, so used to seeing it.

Breastfeeding Network.

Realistic expectations.

Aware of the massive advantages of bfing, not just health, but useful calming tool!

Knowing that everything is temporary - hideous early days and all nighters would not last forever!

Confidence to ignore mu MIL et al. And my fing GP.

Read The Politics of Breastfeeding. That really did it for me.

He's 5 and a half mths now, still ebf, hoping to feed him till one of us gets fed up of it! At least a year, hopefully 2.