Following on from the webchat... succeeding second time success stories please!

[Serendippy]

Really want to hear from people who wanted to BF DC1 but failed for whatever reason but succeeded second (or third or fourth) time. Please tell me what made the difference! We are trying for a baby, might even be pregnant but that's another thread and really really want to make a success of BF this time. All tips welcome, thanks.

I failed to bf first time around and I tried very hard! My nipples scabbed over and basically dropped off, I had help from midwives, bf councilors etc. I ended up with mastitus and in hospital for 2 days and gave up trying shortly after. (baby 3 weeks old)

with my next baby I was determined to make it work but it was actually a lot easier.

I think part of the reason for that was that I knew what to expect and I new it wouldn't be easy but also my second child was bigger and had a bigger mouth! It sounds silly but it made a big difference to how painful bf was.

Knew*

BF attempt with DS was, in summary, one of the worst experiences of my life. However I succeeded second time around with DD.

Differences were:-

• Hiring a lactation consultant privately - in fact DH and I had an appointment with her before DD was born, which I would very much recommend.
• Being hugely better informed, mainly by having read lots of info here on MN.
• Greatly reduced expectations - I told myself that, if it was that awful again, I would feed EBM for 2 weeks and then make a decision what to do after that, but FF would be ok.
• Having a 1ml syringe and a feeding cup ready (used when DD went very sleepy a day after being born, something which seemed to worry the midwives here greatly).
• Having a different baby who had some instinct for what to do.
• Having a husband on board, who appreciated this time that BF was a big deal to me, and understood he was going to have to help instead of just leave me to it.
• Having a brilliant BF cushion - for me this was a "Boppy" borrowed from a friend, a C-shape firm cushion (probably filled with air), whereas the beanbag style one was less good.

Other things that helped were:-

• Lansinoh, of course.
• Having friends who had successfully fed, were sympathetic and answered a few questions.
• Later on, having decent BF tops for feeding in public - the sort made by Frugi. That didn't happen until 3 months for me though.
• Having a bit more trust in myself, and less panic.

Although it turned out that I only saw the private lactation consultant once or twice, the feeling that I actually had someone who I could call and who would listen sympathetically to me and, in particular, would be prepared to come to my house and willingly spend time with me, was hugely calming and reassuring. Worth noting perhaps that she didn't have total freedom about when she could come and see me - it was useful to get DH "trained" so that he could look and comment on what the latch looked like.

Good luck, I really hope it works out well for you.

I also insisted that the midwives checked for tongue tie immediately after birth.

Like others being much more informed second time really helps, perhaps it would first time, I wish I'd read/heard some of the things I did before dd2 before having dd1. But most of all for me was being more relaxed and more determined, having regretted stopping first time round.

For me it was one of those situations where I wish I'd known then what I know now!

I am feeling much more positive about this now. I really felt like I was prepared, had read books and watched DVDs about getting the latch right, in fact spent many miserable hours trying to latch with the books open beside me! Am going to check out all the help available in my area and be really insistant that people help if I feel I am struggling. With DD I didn't want to bother people if it was supposed to hurt and let it get too far. You are indeed wise, women of MN, and I will rely heavily on you lot too!

Ditto the being much more informed second time round. I bf DD1 for 6 weeks (of which the last 10 days was expressing and giving it to her in a bottle) before I gave up in tears. With DD2 I was determined not to beat myself up about it so much and I felt better informed as well having spent a lot of time on MN, kellymom etc etc reading up on it.

I'm still feeding DD2 at 23 weeks and it is going great. She is completely different to DD1 in terms of how she feeds - DD1 would be 40 mins a time making me cry in pain whereas DD2 is on and off after 10 mins and has been since birth.

FWIW, my mother had 6 children and bf us all apart from DC5 where it just wouldn't work (and it's not like she didn't know how to bf a baby!) - it just goes to show that you can be as skilled as you like but sometimes it just doesn't happen.

Good luck and I'm sure it will happen this time

Well with ds I had eleven weeks of blood sweat and tears finally remedied with ..whispers shields. I then fed successfully for 14 months after the shields allowed me to heal..

With dd I was all set up for something similar and it was painless from the very beginning I ended up using her kamillosan as a nappy cream.

I don't know what was different but I would say mumsnet is great if you are struggling and good luck this time round as it is the thing I miss most

Go and see an expert (not just the MW or HV) before you have the baby and talk through the problems you had last time.

I did this with dc3 and it worked amazingly - not sore bit at all. It doesn't have to hurt!

And the best bit of advice I was given was count to 10 and if it still hurts the latch isn't right so take the baby off and start again.

Good luck you can do it

Hi Serendippy!
If you live in London / SW London, send me a private message. I know a fabulous lactation consultant who really helped me out big time. She's fantastic - looks at things that other consultants don't seem to look at (and which seem to make a difference!!).

Hope it works out for you!!! xx

First time around was a dismal failure, due to a combination of really painful engorgement, horribly cracked nipples, hadn't head of lansinoh, had no support at all, very freaked out about having a baby to look after, dd1 cried loads and sometimes was v hard to latch on and was very pukey and puked milk everywhere. Gave up bf after only 1 week.

Second time round with dd2, she's 10 weeks today and we're still going strong and I'm loving bfing her. No engorgement, used no less than 3 tubes in the first 6 weeks, as our latch was very tight and I couldn't get her to open her mouth enough. I don't really use it now. I now have a group of supportive friends who bf their children, had the telephone number of a bf group and a bf advisor. I read a lot of mn and I also fully recommend a fab book called The Food of Love. My dp was great in the early weeks looking after my toddler. My wee toddler has been very patient with it all and dd2 is a very settled baby, all of which makes it easier. Of course, we're also more relaxed about things and know the baby will be fine and we will get some sleep eventually, we know now the early weeks go so quickly and are to be enjoyed, not feared.

Good luck, hope it goes well for you!

tubes of lansinoh that is

i have painful letdown this time, but it doesn't really bother me too much

This thread is really helpful. I bf DS exclusively til 6 weeks and he was still his birth weight and I was told by HV and MW to keep breastfeeding and all was well! Despite me bf every hour of the day and night - literally surviving on about an hour of sleep per day in 10 minute bursts. I never saw his face, he was always screaming (starving) or bf!! As soon as i gave in and gave him a bottle he drank 6 oz and slept for 4 hours and didn't scream when he woke up. I managed to mixed feed for 5 months and considered I had done well to continue.

DD the pain of bf was horrendous - don't know if it was the latch (told not be various health professionals), let down, strong suck, cracked nipples - don't know, but it was SO painful, in the end I resorted to mixed feeding again at 2 weeks. Managed to keep this up til 12 weeks when she was FF. Again I was pleased I had given it a go and had managed to BF even if not exclusively.

The point was that I found the whole experience of BF stressful both times, and it was only as soon as i introduced mixed feeding that I enjoyed my babies. This is so sad, if only I'd had the right advice.

I am now 38 weeks pg and going to give it another go. There is a free bf counselling service round here I will try if things don't go well, but I will come back to this thread and reread the advice.

Better stock up on the Lansinoh! didn't use it before

Good luck Wendy, your stories sound pretty successful considering the starts you had! Hope all goes well this time, and congratulations!

I gave up with DS1 after 3 weeks, but with DS2 got to 13months. I think second time around for me was down to a number of things... Having MN, reading a lot, asking for help and mostly being absolutely bloody minded about succeeding because I had some people in my life (not DP) that didn't think I could/it was necessary. There was a lot of pain and there were many days I wanted to pack it all in, but so glad I didn't. Good luck!

I must reply to this as I feel so strongly about it! I had a horrible time with ds1, just really awful for 6 months and then stopped at 9 months. I was desperate to do it, but just hated it for all that time, and it made me really miserable - so much pain and problems for 6 months, blocked ducts, over supply etc. The last 3 months were ok, but I wanted my freedom back.

Second time round I had twins, and it was FANTASTIC! I loved it and fed them both till they were 20 months. It gave me so much pleasure, joy, satisfaction. I was really sad to stop.

I don't think it was anything I did to be honest so can't be helpful there - except somehow I expected it to be a bit easier and it was.
I think second time round the twins aspect helped with the over supply, so I wasn't in pain like the first time.
I was also expecting, and more used to, the loss of freedom, the extended period of night feeding that (usually) comes with bf'ing.

I hope it goes well for you this time. I can only say that when it goes well it is really wonderful...

The old "if it hurts you're doing it wrong"

There are different degrees of hurt, that's the thing. For me it still hurts at 20 weeks. But if she's latched badly then it really really hurts. I guess it's the latter that they're talking about. No one is going to confuse that with letdown pain surely? They should say something like many women find b/f uncomfortable, especially in the first few weeks. Seek help if you are still in discomfort after the few seconds of a feed, or if you experience pain after previously pain-free feeding, as there may be a problem that needs resolving. Don't suffer in silence!
I'm no good with this kind of thing, but I think that should be the message.

"Hardly anyone could spare any time to help me, and when they did they would kind of ram her at my breast and then give up. I think she started to get a bit freaked out by it and for a long time would scream if she was put anywhere near my breasts." My experience exactly, in two baby friendly hospitals.

"I also insisted that the midwives checked for tongue tie immediately after birth."

I'll def be doing that 2nd time around!

But then there will be women like serendippy, and probably me, who would just suffer in silence, wondering if we were just being wimps. I don't know. But I do know that anything that implies that you and your baby are "doing it wrong" is just not helpful.

Perhaps they should say "if b/f hurts you more than labour, get help fast!"

I did that too - it was written into my notes. The only problem is that some tt's are not apparent except to a specialist. I probably knew what to look for as well as the MW did. At least it felt like I was doing something though.

I ended up expressing to feed DC1 but fed DC2 for as long as we wanted to. Differences:

• I knew it might be hard and was mentally prepared.
• Read book out the library.
• Looked up all sources of help, in the town I'm in there were a few clinics a week when I had DC1 (BFN x 2, NHS x1), a few more when I had DC2 (more BFN) and now there are ones 7 days a week (Sure Start joined in). Went every day that I could just to sit and feed there.
• Probably bad advice but worked for me, to start with used a dummy to get DC sucking then latched. Only needed to do this on one side.
• I think DC2 just 'got it' a bit easier.

I found a couple of breast feeding councillors that I really respected and were honest, said that my shape meant I had certain issues and for some people it would always hurt a little bit (they said 8/10 pain wrong, 2/10, you might just have to live with). I also came accross councillors that were kind but not much help to me personally.

Great thread serendippy. I really struggled to BF DD. She lost so much weight in her first 10 days that she was admitted into NICU. Very poor (non existent) MW care whilst at home meant she wasn't weighed for nearly a week when we initally came out of hospital. BF didn't hurt a bit and I thought it was all okay but it obviosuly wasn't. I persevered with expressing and BF pretty much non stop for the next 3 weeks but she still wasn't gaining weight and i was told if she didn't put on weight she would have to go back to hospital so I gave her formula and she was content for the first time since her birth!

No idea what went wrong really and got so much conflicting advice I don't know what to do next time. Was told I wasn't feeding often enough, was feeding for too long, was feeding so long that she got exhausted etc. etc. I am now 24 weeks pregnant and no idea what will happen next time. Also worried that i will have less time to persevere as I will have DD to consider as well. But it's nice to hear some second time around success stories.

DD1 - 2-3 days, I was in complete shock, traumatic birth and she just wouldn't latch on. Left hospital too early, she was two days old and had only had one 5ml expressed feed from a syringe. Sent dh out in the middle of the night for formula, never went back. :(

DD2 - we got to 20 weeks but had to wean her based on medical advice and going back to work.

Although dd2 was an easy birth I think the biggest difference was my ability to cope with a newborn, I knew what to expect re the birth, the emotional upheaval, the work involved, how to handle, change, wash a newborn etc... plus she latched on immediately at her first feed with no assistance, dd1 never did that.

I managed 9 weeks of hell with ds1. I have a painful letdown and kept being told that it was because he wasn't latched on properly. He was, I just have a painful letdown, as I discovered when I successfully bf ds2 until 6 months (when he got teeth).

Differences?

1. Going much more with my instincts, it 'felt' OK (apart from said painful letdown) so I just kept going.
2. A lovely HV (male, interestingly, with 3 children of his own) who didn't bat an eyelid at ds2 being between 2nd and 9th percentile. He's now 'bonny' .
3. Accepting that it would take time and that the housework and cooking could go hang.
4. Spending an extra day in hospital just feeding ds2 in my nightie with no distractions (food provided, no demands from ds1, etc.)
5. Ds2 being a much more placid baby to start with.
6. Not trying to get a newborn into any evening routine but letting him cluster feed in the evening for the first few weeks.
7. Working out the best time to express (the morning for me).
8. Dh having a better idea of how hard it is and supporting me more.

As you can gather, feeding ds2 was a WHOLE different experience !