NOVEMBER BOOK OF THE MONTH DISCUSSION THREAD - Tonight's discussion thread for The Gathering

[TillyBookClub]

Hi all, this is the thread to use for tonight's bookclub session on The Gathering by Anne Enright - see you at 8pm, can't wait to hear what everyone thinks...

[Notyummy]

Oooh...will have to cut and paste my erudte musings here the....

[Notyummy]

Ok, not much time, but a few random thoughts on The Gathering.

Overall enjoyed it, although it nearly lost me in places. Struggled to like any of the characters, although that is not a criticism, as it means they have been laid bare with all their flaws.

I still haven't decided what the Gran's culpability was...did she know about the abuse, and was the abuse directed at the Mother as well as grandchildren?

Was the abuse a form of 'punishment' for the Gran for her percieved rejection of the male character (can't remember his name, and I am at work without book!)

I am still a bit confused about the hospital (bit dense ) Was the mother sent there whilst depressed?

Any answers to my questions tonight when you discuss will be gratefully received. I will have a look when I get in from my Thai meal!

[TillyBookClub]

Thanks notyummy, was about to cut and paste your message from the other thread. I'm with you about the grandma's culpability, will be interesting to see what everyone thinks about her tonight...Have a great night out and hope to see you a bit later on...

[TillyBookClub]

Evening all...

Thought I'd kick off tonight's chat by asking if you found the characters likeable or not. I agree with notyummy that none of them are particularly appealing, but somehow that's part of the charm of the book. I did find myself wondering why Veronica was quite so miserable and pessimistic, it was never that clear to me what had gone wrong in her marriage...

[MadamePlatypus]

I quite liked the child Liam. I think the character of the husband didn't really come to life - the Hegarty characters had so much substance that there didn't seem to be much room for the others.

[fryalot]

hi

MadamP - I didn't feel like we really "met" the husband, he just seemed to be peripherally there

[MadamePlatypus]

Veronica seemed a bit more optimistic towards the end. Perhaps some of her mood was caused by her personality and some by grief. I think one of the themes of the book was how much is unhappiness caused by an event in the past, and how much is it just inevitable. Kitty felt damaged by being hit, but Veronica rejected this.

[fryalot]

what I wondered, was when Liam, Veronica and Kitty got sent to Ada's, what happened to the other children? Surely they weren't old enough to be left alone?

[MadamePlatypus]

I agree that he was only on the periphery, but occassionally big things were revealed about him e.g. he had affairs and Veronica was attracted to him because he was chronically unhappy.

[MadamePlatypus]

Maybe there were just too many children to look after - the father could cope with the other children? I think there was an element of L, V and K feeling cast out.

[lemurtamer]

I felt it was well-written but unengaging, I didn't really care about any of the characters so it makes me wonder what's the point?

I had little sense of Veronica herself, but perhaps this was because she had little sense of herself whilst she was grieving.

Something I don't understand is that I didn't find her revelation of the abuse that disturbing; I don't know if this was because as a child seeing this, she didn't realise the significance.

Like Notyummy, I couldn't work out what it was about Ada that generated the failing family.

I'm trying to think of something that I liked about the book, and can't really, although I didn't feel as if it wasn't worth finishing. If people loved it I'd be interested to know what grabbed them.

[TillyBookClub]

Or I guess that might be the problem, that the family were always far more important/vital than anything else, and her husband couldn't break through that, whatever he did.

Re the non-family members, I thought Mr Nugent was a strong presence in the book, his frustration and deviousness were horrible. He lingered in the background like a cold draught. Charlie seemed to be a stereotypical happy gambler, and I didn't find his character stood up well enough against the others.

Generally I thought the female characters were more fully realised than any of the male ones. The male ones fell into quite predictable roles.

[fryalot]

I didn't really like the book, either lemurtamer

[marimba]

Bizarrely, I felt a sense of relief when the abuse was finally described. I don't know if that was the skill of the book- getting you to feel the same relief as Veronica in getting it off her chest

[TillyBookClub]

lemurtamer, you've put your finger on EXACTLY what I was feeling when I finished. I admired her writing technique very much, I found myself turning pages without a problem, I was interested...but without a strong emotional attachment to any of it. I took it all in a very disengaged way. Is that a product of the characters, the themes or her style, do you think?

[fryalot]

I was quite confused about what had happened and what she had imagined a lot of the time. Was she abused by Nugent as well?

[TillyBookClub]

marimba, were you surprised at the level of abuse, when it was finally revealed? Some reviewers said they thought the abuse was 'relatively harmless' and therefore not something to get so worked up about. (I'm not sure they'd say that if it were their child, but there we are)

What is quite clever about the relvelations is the uncertainty of how much more happened between Mr Nugent and Liam, and to Veronica. It make the abuse even worse, that she's not sure of its extent.

[MadamePlatypus]

I liked the description of her childhood in the 70's, and I found the subject of being part of a large family interesting. If anybody watches the discovery channel, big families are their latest theme (e.g. John and Kate + 8) - it is all shown in a very positive, Waltonesque light. It was interesting to see it portrayed in a less romantic way.

[marimba]

Squonk, I didn't think she was abused, although she wondered if she had been, perhaps to try to find an explanation for why she felt so wretched, or maybe to lessen her feelings of guilt. I agree with you though that it was difficult to decide what had really happened, e.g contrary to M Platypus, I didn't think that her husband had affairs, but that was imagined by Veronica too

[TillyBookClub]

I think that confusion is deliberate, I don't think we're meant to know one way or the other. I suppose it's the uncertainty (coupled with active imagination and grief) that drives Veronica to her slightly mad state.

There's a point in the book where she says the only things she's sure of are the things she didn't see. I took that to mean that she doesn't trust her childhood memories any more, or trust anything for that matter.

[fryalot]

I wondered if I was missing something about the husband's affairs, tbh. It was made so clear that he WAS having them, but I couldn't see it, I was like you, Marimba, I doubted this.

[marimba]

Tilly, I didn't think the abuse was harmless, but as there was a feeling throughout the book that we were building up to this revelation, I was expecting more- maybe more episodes or a more prolonged description. In fact the childish description of Liam growing out of Nugent was particularly disturbing

[lemurtamer]

I think for me the lack of engagement must have been a lack of sympathy for any of the characters, in particular Veronica or Liam. While they'd had hard childhoods, nothing led me to be more interested in them as adults. I don't think it's the themes as I've been entirely gripped by other books on unfamiliar subjects.
Perhaps the vagueness and introspection of the book is a study in Veronica's breakdown after the death of the Liam, but I didn't find that especially tragic for her or her family either.

[lemurtamer]

I think for me the lack of engagement must have been a lack of sympathy for any of the characters, in particular Veronica or Liam. While they'd had hard childhoods, nothing led me to be more interested in them as adults. I don't think it's the themes as I've been entirely gripped by other books on unfamiliar subjects.
Perhaps the vagueness and introspection of the book is a study in Veronica's breakdown after the death of the Liam, but I didn't find that especially tragic for her or her family either.

[lemurtamer]

Sorry, what a fool.