Will MNHQ allow criticism of their moderation of posts by black women from black MN members?

[Jamdown123]

Or are black MNers not allowed to critique the presumably largely white MNHQ. If so, I consider that to be in breach of their very rationale for the board, which they state to be 'primarily for the use of Black Mumsnetters'.

My posts, just as this one, have been respectful.

So, let's see if they also take down this post.

If so, I wonder whether they will inform me of why they have taken that action this time, seeing as I have heard nothing from them whatsoever so far.

In my opinion this behaviour is truly disgraceful. It certainly gives the impression that MNHQ have been caught out there.

For what it’s worth I agree it’s a good idea to take off ‘active’ to avoid unnecessary accusations being thrown around and there should be a note white women commenting will be received as it has been on this thread thus best to avoid.

Not every criticism of a black poster is racist
No one said that. Another twisting of words.

Perhaps read up on " The Angry Black Woman stereotype". while you are at it. It might then ring a bell with you.

If the OP wants to say how she feels, it's absolutely fine by the rest of us on BMN. Go and be a School Prefect on a part of the Board relevant to you.

Ah, the "aggrieved" have arrived to pretend we hate white women, to misquote, and to police the thread. Who would have guessed?

Wow.

Please don’t assume you know my race.

Twisting of words that’s ironic and the unnecessary rudeness and name calling.

@Reusablebags

Saw this in active. Thought twice about posting as I’m white but this will be my only comment on BMN I promise. I agree with PP that the responses here seem to be hackneyed dismissive “you’re hysterical” “be quiet, be small, know your place” type and really as you say it’s a bit farcical when that place you’re commenting is BMN itself. I don’t comment on BMN as I don’t think it should be a place where non-black people dip in and observe, criticise etc. Same as I wouldn’t want men doing that on a specifically women’s only thread. Or, I’m a lawyer and if I was on a lawyers forum for specific issues, I wouldn’t want non lawyers chipping in about how shit their old lawyer was or what they think lawyers ought to do etc. I imagine it’s exhausting and in going onto this topic posters expect a bit of a rest from that. Not that I think all black musmnetter have one group shared opinion or experience (not do all women (or lawyers or knitters ) but you know, a shared characteristic that is a common factor, and maybe an expectation of some shared understanding and a bit of a head start to certain discussions.

You don't think non black people should post but the OP said, and are raising little people who are being impacted by racism, and that isn't just black people.

@sadpapercourtesan

Because I was accused of trying to put a black woman in her place - which is something I have never done, and would never do. At that point I felt I had a stake in the conversation which I wouldn't previously have assumed.

If you never felt you had a stake in the conversation, why did you reply to the topic in the first place? It had literally nothing to do with you.

There were two threads in Active, being frequently bumped, with the theme being MNHQ's moderation policy - that seemed fairly generic to me, and of interest since I've been here for nearly 20 years and had several run-ins with MNHQ myself. The comment I offered had absolutely nothing to do with race, and everything to do with MNHQ's response time/the efficacy of posting repetitive non-specific complaints while waiting for them to act.

There isn't a racism story here, sorry folks. Merry Christmas

@Tillsforthrills

For what it’s worth I agree it’s a good idea to take off ‘active’ to avoid unnecessary accusations being thrown around and there should be a note white women commenting will be received as it has been on this thread thus best to avoid.

Read the pinned notice at the top of BMN It's already there. What part of this don't you understand? Is it the Respectful part? This board exists primarily for the use of Black Mumsnetters. Others are welcome to post but please be respectful.

If it's not a board for you, feel free to jog on by.

Plopping on to lecture and hector is not "in the spirit" of Respectful

Yet strangely @sadpapercourtesan you haven’t extended this lecture to anyone in Site Stuff.

And again, steeped in racism and racist are different things. Steeped in racism is unconscious prejudice which you are displaying. You told a black woman to pipe down, to show respect and to wind her neck in and you have no idea you’re displaying inbuilt and subconscious prejudice.

I remember this vividly from when the board was asked for. White women crossly telling the OP to be a bit politer.

Marvellous.

@BlackandGreen

That’s so funny, you haven’t a leg to stand on! I’ve been respectful and always am no matter who I’m talking to. Your comments were disgraceful and untrue, name calling and hypocritical then you get offended when people are rude back to you.

That is indeed strange - and completely untrue. I have, in fact, as I stated earlier, said similar to many posters (whose race is a matter of supreme indifference to me) when they've clogged up Active with repetitive whinges aimed at getting MNHQ to respond more quickly/in the manner they want.

The only rude and abusive behaviour I've seen on this thread has been towards me, so far. Is that "steeped in racism" as well, despite being true? I don't think so.

You’re not getting it, @sadpapercourtesan.

There is an unconscious prejudice that reacts with shock when a black woman demands something of white women, when a black woman asks white women to explain themselves, justify themselves.

By all means, insist you are not racist - I’m sure you’re not - but it’s both ignorant and more than a little churlish to keep crossly insisting that well, actually, you would have done this on any board, it just so happened to be a board for black women and a thread where a black woman was getting annoyed and frustrated with something white women had done, when …

women four times more likely to die in childbirth [[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59248345 black women are four times more likely to die in childbirth]] and black people are nine times more likely to be stopped and searched by the police - I could post dozens of links, but to be honest you’ll either ‘get it’ or you won’t.

Believe it or not, with the exceptions of some bad eggs, most members of the police force aren’t racist, and neither are most healthcare professionals.

But we all have prejudices, or to put it another way, expectations, often without realising we do. So for instance, we expect plumbers to be male and nursery workers to be female, because most of them are. That’s fine - as long as no one reacts in horror to a man in a room with three year olds or a female fixing your pipes.

We might expect or at least not be surprised by an adult saying ‘oh, shit’ when we realise they are late but a five year old saying it would probably be met with shock and distaste. Same with countless other things - fine for an adult, not so for a child.

When we extend this to race - and sorry but you can’t ignore the fact you posted on Black Mumsnetters - it’s uncomfortable.

We don’t want or expect black women to stand up to white women - and if they do, they are bolshy, rude, lacking in education. Why? Slavery, it’s steeped in that attitude. We expect them to be subservient, respectful, to know their place, if you like. A gobby black woman (apologies, OP!) piped up here and you out her in her place very promptly and swiftly. What was it again? I’d probably tone down the high-handedness and try for a reasonable dialogue, if I were you

You will either get it, or you will not.

I understand what you're trying to say. I don't struggle with reading comprehension, nor am I unfamiliar with the "angry black woman" trope and all the baggage it comes with. Inconveniently, however, you are just wrong on this occasion. I have made the same criticisms on other boards, to posters of other races, and had them said to me. That's just objectively true. There isn't any prejudice, unconscious or otherwise, in what I posted, however much you would like there to be.

however much you would like there to be

It was going well until that last sentence Yes, because a world where black women and babies die is one that I want, just to prove a point.

You haven’t once posted in site stuff - which incidentally would also come up in active conversations - to inform women that their tone is not to your liking and that they need to tone down the high handedness but hey, I’m totes enjoying racism. It’s what gets me up in the morning

I've been here since 2001, and had several usernames. That's quite common on MN and would frustrate your attempts to prove a point by searching my previous posts.

I don't think I suggested that you enjoy or benefit from racism. You are, however, accusing me of something I have not done, because it better serves the "white women on MN are all racist" narrative you're invested in.

I think if you do a freedom of information request they have to tell you the declared ethnic make up of all stuff. It's not something they can choose to hide if staff have already been asked to disclose on application.

@BlackandGreen the pinned stuff is there if you look but not if you go in through Active or on the app. Maybe it needs to pop up every time someone comes into a thread so we know. Or like Sex you have to be a member for a certain amount of time to post.

FWR have been dealing with this for a long time. A combination of trolls and arseholes who say ignorant, sexist things and pick times when MNHQ are asleep. We talk about cake recipes. But it's fucking tiresome.

I thought the OP was a troll TBF. For a couple of reasons. I can see why MNHQ did. Like @SoupDragon I apologise for posting if it's unwanted. Also white!

@britneyisfree

I think if you do a freedom of information request they have to tell you the declared ethnic make up of all stuff. It's not something they can choose to hide if staff have already been asked to disclose on application.

I thought people didn't have to declare their ethnicity? I'm retired but did work in HR and people always had the option of not stating.

I know, I’ve had several usernames myself. So sure, under one of your other usernames you regularly pop up on Site Stuff to tick posters off for being uppity little madams. Just not under this one.

I think if you do a freedom of information request they have to tell you the declared ethnic make up of all stuff.

MN won't be subject to FOIA but it's always worth asking.

I'm not sure what point you think you're making now but yes, I've had several usernames and this is the one I'm using now.

I of course didn't refer to anyone as "uppity", nor did I use the reductive and insulting phrase "little madam", nor tell anyone to "know your place". But keep telling yourself stories, as they're clearly much more interesting than the actual truth.

@PassingByAndThoughtIdDropIn

I agree that the black MNers board does routinely get overrun with whingeing white posters and taking it off Active Threads might be an excellent idea.

However this
"The second, the idea that I'm an employer is a farce, so I don't need to stick with any employment laws. I'm also not offering a service myself, so I'm not barring anyone access. I can do whatever the heck I like in my own home, and if that means pushing some money towards black business, then I can, and will"
is factually inaccurate. If you're hiring a nanny then you're an employer, and legally, in theory, you need to abide by the full range of employment law, be that national insurance, sick leave, or non-discrimination in hiring practice. In practice many people don't abide by these rules, as any male or black nanny will tell you, but MNHQ can't really leave up a thread encouraging people to break the law.

Looking specifically for a black childminder would be different - in that case you would simply be a consumer buying a service from a business, and would be free to apply any criteria you liked in picking them.

It really depends on how it is done. For example, my cleaner is self-employed, so I pay her and that's that. The childcare would be the same. I was asking about one evening a week. That person would have several families and would largely dictate the shape of their work. Or I would go through an agency. I did not stipulate these on the original post because I just wanted some direction in finding what I needed.

But, to be sure of this - I would NOT become an employer, in sprit or letter, so those arguments do not apply here.

[quote Tillsforthrills]@BlackandGreen

She stated that non black people shouldn’t post here. That’s fine btw.

I think there may be a lot of ‘goady fuckers’ thank you very much but you’re making out anyone is and trying to turn anyone who asks genuine questions and dialogue as an automatic racist.[/quote]
I asked why they post here.

Then lots of them did, and I realised it was to cause upset, offend and generally get in the way of some decent conversation between black women.

We could really do without comments like yours. But we probably haven't heard the last of you even though your comments mean so little to us..... sigh....

@sadpapercourtesan

But it isn't. At all. I have said the same many times to posters who have flown off the handle over thread/post deletions and clogged up Active Conversations with repeat threads about it. Have also had similar said to me, when I was younger and more hot-tempered. Not every criticism of a black poster is racist.

This comment really show your ignorance.

Just because something happens to a white person, it does not mean the same incident involving a black person isn't racist. In fact, this is one of the main ways racist people try to show they are not racist. Such as sacking every black person in the company during the credit crunch, but then also sacking one white worker just for show (this actually happened to my friend).

Let's be more extreme in this example for you, just in case you started forming denying thoughts in your head. White people in the US have been murdered by the police. I'm sure you aren't actually suggesting George Floyd's killing lacked any semblance of a racist act.

Please please think through what you write before you write it because you are at risk of sounding very silly. It's a little embarrassing to read posts like that. I'm embarrassed for you.