Is this about me getting older, or are these men tripping?

[Jamdown123]

So, I am 40. I used to be 25, 30, suddenly , I find I am 40. I don't know how that happened either!!!!

I'm a good 40. White women tell me I look 33, black women are just as kind, but that is likely because I'm a woman's woman and we are just kind to each other!

But my life SCREAMS middle age. I won't go into details. It's all quite pitiful and reason to feel blessed at the same. I do find that my life is a exercise of gratitude right now - 'Dear lord, help me, I haven't had a lie in in 7 years' / 'but thank you lord for these beautiful children, I am blessed', 'dear lord this mortgage is killing me' / 'but thank you lord, having a roof over my head is a blessing' etc etc. Sigh... I'm telling you this because it might just be my issue;

So the meat of the post. My partner's friends are all our age say between 37 and 45, they are suddenly marrying these 25 year old women. I've known these guys for more than 10 years, they have bleated on about wanting a woman and kids and all that good stuff, while spending every weekend in some bar or other (nothing wrong with that, I was there with them the first few years), and all of a sudden they all come up trumps but with women who are young. This makes me feel hella old. After all, the 23 year old could be my daughter. It's like the music stopped they chose a partner.

Anyways, I feel something about this. It's not one, it's pretty much ALL of his friends, all with much much younger women. It is none of my business, sure. I'm not losing sleep over it (don't watch the time of this post!!!), but something I am watching on Netflix reminds me of this issue.

Let me wrap up. I feel it's misogyny, why these men are not with women more their own age. I've been that 25 year old woman, I had relationships with older men, I totally get it. But now that I am 40, I feel very differently about these men. Not all of them, but I feel the rejection of women their age quite keenly. Because I am not young anymore, and that's tricky sometimes, but also because I actually feel I have gotten better as I've grown, right? Is this misogynoir? And I see so many of my black female friends my age holding out for these (mostly) black guys, and it really seems the men aren't interested in that way. It also makes me think, if my relationship goes completely belly up, even though I think I am, and women my age are great stuff, no one else does and I'd be alone, like so many of my friends are. This outcome appears less likely with white women. They separate, divorce, and then meet someone. I don't see that so much with black women.

I think it is down to men and what they are lacking. Sense for one, and yes again, I feel it is a kind of misogyny. I don't know whether it's a black man thing, or whether all men are like this. But black women have it so hard on the dating scene, I find myself feeling quite badly about it all. 4 or 5 black men who say black women their age are too old and they want 25 year olds.

I do think the younger women these men I am talking about are with, are actually quite impressive in many ways. I do believe they are catches, none of 'from back home' in that kind of way ( and I do not underestimate those 'from back home' women at all). I think these men would not have been able to keep hold of these impressive women when they were also 25. These women wouldn't look at them twice. It's the older man and all of the ways he seems wonderful that is attracting the women. He's travelled. He's worked a bit, so can give good advice there. He has more of the material things that do matter when you are a young woman and thinking about how to go about establishing your life.

So I do think this says everything about the men, and not the younger of older women necessarily.

one thing I am thinking about biology, the comments about men being ale to sire children until well into old age... So many men cannot sustain sexual intercourse from wheat I think it is quite early on. Well, earlier than I thought. My mum is 60, and for quite a few years her female friends have been having those female jokey conversations about their partners needing viagra or it won't work! Many of her female friends who are kinda over relationships have started dating younger men to be sexually satisfied (or to have any sex at all). So biologically, we have the trump card when it comes to being able to have sex a long long time with very little, if any help at all.

Yes you're right about male impotence but of course as it's a male problem there are many drugs to treat it now that work really well. But woman's biology is much more black and white with the menopause. BAM and you literally cannot get pregnant. Men's it's much greyer. Des O'Connor never had a problem there 😳 amongst many others! With menopause and peri menopause women often loose their libido, some lucky ones don't but a significant majority do. I am peri menopause and really could not care less about sexism right now!

You're most probably spot on about those men having a lot that attracts younger women, when in my 20's I was never bothered about the material things, but the maturity that came with life experience really attracted me then. As well as more experience in the sack! That certainly helped!!

Sex not sexism!!

I think that by the time women are in their 40s, they're less likely to put up with any shit from men. So it's easier for men to seek a younger woman who is more 'compliant'

But woman's biology is much more black and white with the menopause. BAM and you literally cannot get pregnant.

To some men, who prefer older women, that is an advantage as they are fully aware having a child changes your relationship with your partner.

@RedMarauder absolutely for some men this is a big plus. But the men the OP is referring to have said they are wanting to settle down and have kids.

I think it's a man thing with many factors (and pretty simple at that), the crux being that a "committed" relationship and rearing children doesn't seem to be as much of a goal for men (until they begin to worry about their dotage).

A woman you get with at 22 will probably give them 5+ years before serious commitment discussions (marriage and kids) begin. A 30+ woman doesn't have that sort of time.

I also think that a lot of men aren't very successful with women in their 20s.
It wasn't my experience, but a lot of women in this thread have said they were dating older men at this age. A few men I know are circling back for the fun they didn't have now that they have some confidence and material wealth under their belt (and they would describe it in those terms).

There is a bit of a corollary with older women too. A woman in her 40s or 50s, dating a guy in her 20s is not going to be expecting much more than a decent performance in the bedroom. The competition is also likely to be less fierce than it is for the 20-something women (I've perused the tinder subreddit and it does seem pretty dire for the majority of young men).

This is before you get to the obvious fact that younger women (generally) look better. I've worked out pretty consistently, most days of the week since 18. I'm in very good shape for my age, I even perform better in some respects, but my best days of looking good naked are undeniably behind me.

Yeah, when I was 29/30 I dated a 44 year old man. I saw him naked, he was a fitness FR-EAK. But I remember seeing his body and thinking 'I need a younger body'. So, the body thing goes for men too, at least with some women.

I'm aware that sounds shallow, it felt shallow then but I wanted a man my age-ish. I got with a man shortly afterwards who was 30. That man is now 43, and I'm good with him (in that respect, anyway...)

These messages have helped me to think around this issue.

I've always thought women get better as they age. I'm not thinking about the ins and outs of their female parts, or the flatness of their tummies, or thinking wrinkles are awful. I just think they get better, So it's been eye-opening to really see that, at least in the western world, their value seems to decline so much on the romantic scale.

The competition is also likely to be less fierce than it is for the 20-something women

Funny thing is the older women I know and have known who have younger partners seem to have no issues finding themselves a replacement.

I've come to the conclusion that some people are simply charismatic and attract potential partners of their preferred sex/age/ethnicity with ease, and others don't.

The 40-something men are simply using their worldliness to attract a younger partner who once they hit 50 they are unlikely to attract unless they have that charisma.

@Jamdown123

These messages have helped me to think around this issue.

I've always thought women get better as they age. I'm not thinking about the ins and outs of their female parts, or the flatness of their tummies, or thinking wrinkles are awful. I just think they get better, So it's been eye-opening to really see that, at least in the western world, their value seems to decline so much on the romantic scale.

Gosh yes us women get way better with ageand just because some men in our age group can’t see this, then it doesn’t make it any less true, there are always different strokes for different folks, and there are plenty men that like a mature woman. Have you considered that you are meeting the wrong sort of men, are you in the right type of places, if you spend lots of time with professional/corporate men then I think they are very much into the younger partner/wife scenario, find men that aren’t, trust me, they are out there!!

We carry ourselves with confidence, we know what we won’t, we know what we don’t want and we are more understanding about certain things because we have lived, maybe we can be less understanding too

^ that last paragraph wasn’t finished yet before I fired it out too fast and it was about us mature women, as in we carry ourselves well etc etc

Ahhh I think the dating scene is hard all round OP regardless of skin colour.
Times flies I agree there! I'm 30 and I can't believe how it seems like yesterday when I was 24. Part of me would of liked to settle down when I was younger well I kind of did with DS's dad at 21 but it didn't work at 6 years later and we split.

Now I notice a lot of people have been together 7+ years plus around my age group.

Men have always chased younger women. Realistically a woman at 25 and a man at 40 is a huge age gap. It may not last!

@Booboobadoo

I think that by the time women are in their 40s, they're less likely to put up with any shit from men. So it's easier for men to seek a younger woman who is more 'compliant'

Absolutely this. Also the women 30+ have learnt along the way and will not tolerate certain things unlike whe your 25 and you may be unaware. Men are fully aware of this too.

I think these men would not have been able to keep hold of these impressive women when they were also 25

Absolutely. It allows men access to women who are out of their league really and takes advantage of the fact younger men don’t want to commit yet or aren’t secure etc.

Reality is though that women come into their own in middle age in terms of confidence and knowing what they want etc and over the long term women are less afraid of being alone than men and cope better.

If this phenomena took hold then 15-20 years down the road you might see the consequence of lots of divorces with the younger woman’s children being nearly grown and flown, her having material security from the division of assets and not seeking anything too serious as she already has her kids, is confident and is appreciating her freedom. She then has the market of young men looking for that confidence and lack of neediness in older women. Meanwhile the guy is pushing 60, potentially has less assets than the first time he married and is no longer attractive to young women and isn’t attractive to the single middle aged women either.

Just saying there’s another chapter to come of these stories and for the young women it could work well. Those who stay in their marriage then are likely to be widows pretty young ideally with mortgages paid off and maybe pensions or life insurance and adult children and friends and secure networks of friends for later life.

I personally wasn’t ready to settle down let alone with someone old enough to be my dad when I was in my 20s though.

@TheHoneyBadger

I agree with that next chapter idea, and I hadn't thought of it in that way.

Speaking freely, also, I have noticed that in general, not all, but in general, the older men are spinning the women a line - they are making out they are just a bit more than what they are. It feels a little like the younger women are being intentionally duped. There is one man who has a driver while his fiancé is in town, so she thinks he has one all the time!

I kid you not.

That’s actually quite tragic

Interesting topic with many good points.

I agree that part of the issue is the easy availability of sex. My husband and I were celibate till our wedding night. That was the best way for me to sanely choose the best man.

In my observations, culturally WW last longer in the dating/pairing scene. I'm a 43 yr old African woman and my DH is 11yrs older. We met just after my 40th and got married just over a year later. My DH is white and this is the 1st marriage for both of us. We met on a Christian website and I'm very thankful as I'd never met a man like him before and don't think I could have otherwise. At least not long enough to exchange details etc. My MIL has a friend in her 80s who has a man friend (over 10years). The woman had been married twice. 1st marriage ended in divorce, 2nd husband passed away and she didn't wish to remarry a 3rd time. She has a relative and another friend on their 2nd marriage. At work I've seen WW in their 50s get married after being divorced in their 40s. I white colleague was lesbian then decided it was against her Catholic upbringing and decided to be heterosexual. She got married 3yrs later in her late 40s and has been married for 4years now.
I know more black people than white but I've come across only one BW who has remarried after her divorce. I still have many single BW friends over 38, many in their late 40s never married. These are women who value marriage and long for it deeply. They perform spiritual exercises ie pray, fast etc; go out, look good, have their own homes and car etc.

One of the main issues is that BW are the lowest numbers marrying outside their race. BM btw 30 and 45 generally choose btw 23 and 42 of any race. BW btw 30 and 45 tend to choose btw 32 and 50 but 90% black men. BW should consider letting the best man win; not only the best black man. Just over four years ago I asked myself who exactly it was I was serving by limiting my pool to my tribe. (Not simply race)

Until 4 years ago I placed upon myself the responsibility to be married to a man from my tribe. That loyalty wasn't serving me. I didn't want the trauma that comes with being taken for granted. I wanted romance and true unashamed love. So I decided to let the man who treated me best win. This is the best decision I made for a happy marriage.

What do you think lies behind that 90% wanting a black man? Do you think it is a sense of loyalty or thinking of their future children? I wonder what it is that creates such a disparity between the choices of BW and BM.

In my opinion I see that black females are more inclined to please their families. Their mothers also tend to be more emotionally attached to them than their husbands so there's a desire to give them inlaws they can bond easier with. In my own culture the marriage isn't usually romantically fulfilling for the woman so her fulfilment is focused on her children and how/who they marry. For the bride's mother for eg her daughter's wedding day is almost like her own wedding. There're also some BM who actively shame BW for marrying or dating WM.
It's ironic to me as I find that most of my friends like the idea of love and romance but only recently have we realised that we're more likely to get that from men of a different race. Although two of my friends married WM over 10yrs ago and are very happy. It wasn't until 5yrs ago that one of them started suggesting to me to consider men of his race.
BM on the other hand date and marry outside their race freely. They even act like they got a trophy. I think men from traditional cultures are somewhat kinder to their wives from a more western culture. I'm not sure that the men are happier but they appear kinder to that woman than when they dated their own race.
Years ago my males colleagues (2 African and 3 Asian) were discussing why Asian females were marrying White men. They said it's cos WM valued the AW more as they were more family oriented, homely etc. The weren't happy about it but said they understand. The 2 BM said it was happening amongst BW. I wasn't interested in such topics at the time but now do think B & AW should fully consider other races and widen their pool.
Now I can say that the best way to date is to date openly/widely, cautiously with delayed intimacy and let the man who treats you best get more access to your time/life but slowly.

It's all ethnicities of men OP.
But not all men obvs.
They don't have a biological clock.
So, it's because they can and they find it flattering.

My friend's father who is 65 recently had his third marriage to a woman in her 30's. She's now pregnant.
My friend is 45 & has kids aged 8-10. 😬

In my experience
Black men often don’t tend to get married and when they do it’s at a much later age than men of other ethnicities

Out of all of my female friends both black and white women who have been in relationships with black men they are not married and their partners have no interest in marrying even if they have kids with them and it’s a long term relationship.
My DH is white and we have been married for 22 years I’m mixed race .
My black - mixed race friends who are married are married to white men

When I married my DH I didn’t know any black women that dated white men
Now it’s a lot more common