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Black Mumsnetters

This board exists primarily for the use of Black Mumsnetters. Others are welcome to post but please be respectful.

I am feeling increasingly detached from feminism as a black woman - am I alone?

578 replies

FTMF30 · 14/03/2021 20:27

From a fairly young age there's always been this thing (feminism) that I've felt totally enchanted by but could never fully embrace. I am all for women's rights, but as I get older, I just don't view myself as a feminist at all.

The more I look into it, I feel feminism is problematic in the sense that it is born out of racism and is still framed around white women. If you look back at the suffragette movement, black women were used and then sold out by people we thought were allies. In fact it would seem, historically that white women only truly cared about equal rights when black men began to get more rights than them. Before that they seemingly didn't give a shit about being treated as subordinates.

Today, many posts on the feminism board often have racist undertones, with false comparisons "imagine if black people were treated. . . "

On Mumsnet alone, I feel reminded that, whilst I am a woman and I advocate women's rights, feminism really isn't for me. Examples of why I feel this way are:

  • The incessant vitriol towards Meghan Markle. I don't think she's perfect(far from it) but she receives a lot of criticism and insults beyond justification. What exactly has she done that is really that bad? She has been criticized on MN for sharing her miscarriage (supposedly at the wrong time Hmm) and sharing that she suffered mental health issues and felt suicidal. When it comes to sensitive topics such as mental health and suicide, if people think she's talking crap, the sensible thing to do would to not comment on the matter as NOBODY knows how she truly feels, but instead, many have piled on making wild accusations.
  • comparing blackface to drag and implying that somehow drag is actually worse (as someone who is both black and female, I feel quite strongly that black face is much, MUCH worse).
  • the whole uproar about Sarah E's murder - it's awfully tragic but it is no different to the brutality black women and men have suffered at the hands of the police (many times on duty) for years. I am very sad about Sarah's death and I'm glad it's getting so much attention, but what stings is the radio silence in comparison about the murders of many black women who's families still have not gotten justice. It's as if SOME white woman have only just learned about police brutality

-defence of white women who weaponize their white womenness (e.g. American woman who threatened to call the police on that black
man in the park whilst she was out walking her dog. Her threat was along the lines of her saying she would explicitly state she was a white woman being threatened by a black man.)

-the suggestion that there needs to be a WLM (women's lives matter) movement - I don't even have the words to explain why this enrages me.

  • comparing the the BLM movement (even before it was co-opted and deviated from it's initial and simple intention) to Sarah's vigil/protest - some of the comments are as though black women don't exist. Like there is no such thing as being female AND black. A comment on a thread said something on the lines of "BLM was in response to a bunch of criminals dying at the hands of the police, Sarah did nothing wrong." Again, I barely have the words.
  • comments that there shouldn't be a "black mumsnetters" section. Why TF not? Just as women need space to chat, black women need space to chat, because sometimes, it is only your kinfolk who will truly understand how you feel, what you're going through, etc.

These are just SOME examples that have come to mind, but there a re many more. I love mumsnet but sometimes, the comments on here (though not directed at me personally) are really hurtful. I even sometimes do not want to comment on trivial posts incase I am unknowingly interacting with racists.

Am I alone in feeling like this?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
ShutUpAlex · 16/03/2021 15:35

I feel like the fwr board are the white Caucasian males of mumsnet.

Pumpkin314 · 16/03/2021 15:51

I wonder if people who use this board would prefer if it didn't show up in active and trending? It might help avoid threads being derailed as this one has. I only ask as I have been reading (with interest to be fair!) because I almost always navigate MN by looking at the list of active threads, and I often don't look what board threads are on.

EchoCardioGran · 16/03/2021 15:59

Safe spaces for women and girls doesn't seem to include allowing Black women their own safe space to discuss their experiences of feminism on here.
Centring women and girls involves listening, no matter how uncomfortable it might be. Hectoring and twisting what is being said because it doesn't fit a certain white patriarchal narrative is not progress

EchoCardioGran · 16/03/2021 16:13

Dunno how "patriarchal " got in my last sentence.Hmm But it's only me so I'm sure the world will carry on. Smile

HmmmmmmInteresting · 16/03/2021 16:18

@ShutUpAlex

I feel like the fwr board are the white Caucasian males of mumsnet.
Absolutely. I said earlier they love the patriarchy
HmmmmmmInteresting · 16/03/2021 16:45

@EchoCardioGran

Dunno how "patriarchal " got in my last sentence.Hmm But it's only me so I'm sure the world will carry on. Smile
I thought it fitted perfectly and thought it was intentional!
DioneTheDiabolist · 16/03/2021 17:22

I feel like the fwr board are the white Caucasian males of mumsnet.

No, they're the FWR board and while they don't tolerate NAMALT, "I've never seen that", Source and link please, "I've never done that" and Squirrelling there, they think it's fine to do on BMN. And before that, on the Central Park birdwatcher and BLM threads.

It is not at all surprising the OP feels how she does, feminists and feminism has work to do when it comes to racism.

ImpatiensI · 16/03/2021 17:30

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

HmmmmmmInteresting · 16/03/2021 17:33

No they definitely are the white Caucasian males of MN.

They look up to the patriarchy and wish they could have that. This is why they 'punch down' at groups they feel are below them. Easy target, innit? They don't want equality for all women, they want white 'feminists' to be top dog.

This is why they co-opted the word 'woke' (which means 'alert to social injustice, especially racism') and have turned it into an insult to use against us. Surely social injustice is what 'feminists' are supposed to be alert to Hmm

This is why they fangirl over right wing racists and try to ingratiate themselves with them.

It's actually embarrassing.

Quaagars · 16/03/2021 17:48

No, they're the FWR board and while they don't tolerate NAMALT, "I've never seen that", Source and link please, "I've never done that" and Squirrelling there, they think it's fine to do on BMN. And before that, on the Central Park birdwatcher and BLM threads. It is not at all surprising the OP feels how she does, feminists and feminism has work to do when it comes to racism

Absolutely this.
I remember the Amy Cooper thread, and the way one of the regular posters was absolutely determined to paint the man who she called the police on screaming she was "being threatened by a black man" as an attacker was appalling.
Utter gaslighting posters too, telling them they weren't seeing what they were seeing in the video etc.
Could not conceive in the slightest that no, actually, in this case it was the woman entirely in the wrong, weaponising their skin colour, and tears and therefore the woman being the attacker in this scenario.
It's utterly tone deaf, they just can't or won't see what they do.

It's actually embarrassing

It really is

HmmmmmmInteresting · 16/03/2021 17:52

Inside that definition there's numerous ways to be a feminist and that's very individual but you can't change the basics to suit your trans activist agenda

'trans activist agenda'

Oh my god, you people have to shoe-horn trans into everything. You are OBSESSED! Where has it even been mentioned? Honestly, get help....get help

ImpatiensI · 16/03/2021 17:53

The more I look into it, I feel feminism is problematic in the sense that it is born out of racism

Can anyone explain this to me? How is feminism born out of racism?

ImpatiensI · 16/03/2021 17:55

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Quaagars · 16/03/2021 17:55

Can anyone explain this to me?

You are on BMN board.
I think people have said a million times to you that they're not here to educate you, or "debate racism."

Biscuit
HmmmmmmInteresting · 16/03/2021 17:56

Why am I not surprised about the Amy Cooper thing?

The fact she lost her job and had criminal charges brought against her says this poster was absolutely wrong and just another example of what this thread is about.

HmmmmmmInteresting · 16/03/2021 17:57

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

EchoCardioGran · 16/03/2021 17:58

Who elected the FWR alleged spokesperson?
No one from FWR I suspect.

Julie is that you?

HmmmmmmInteresting · 16/03/2021 18:02

@EchoCardioGran

Who elected the FWR alleged spokesperson? No one from FWR I suspect.

Julie is that you?

Julie needs to be sacked, because she's doing a terrible job
SionnachRua · 16/03/2021 18:02

Didn't you say you were muting me?

Didn't you say you were.. what was it again...oh yeah. "Leaving you to it now, this isn't a healthy place to be."

ImpatiensI · 16/03/2021 18:03

@Quaagars

Can anyone explain this to me?

You are on BMN board.
I think people have said a million times to you that they're not here to educate you, or "debate racism."

Biscuit

So you think it's ok to claim that feminists are fundamentally racist, with zero evidence given and total refusal to explain? No.
roundtable · 16/03/2021 18:04

I agree with you op. My eyes have been widened since using MN, including the feminist board. I am glad of this space but mainly lurk as they so often get derailed and I'm tired of always explaining or justifying. Especially to people who don't want to understand.

Sterling effort op - you're a much better person that me. Flowers

HmmmmmmInteresting · 16/03/2021 18:05

@SionnachRua

Didn't you say you were muting me?

Didn't you say you were.. what was it again...oh yeah. "Leaving you to it now, this isn't a healthy place to be."

She needed to shoe-horn trans into the conversation first. Maybe her job here is done.
plumpuddisnice · 16/03/2021 18:10

I just came on to say yes OP I feel the same.

The whole Sarah Everard case has really highlighted that feminism is for certain types of women. There absolutely should be uproar at what has happened to Sarah but where is the uproar about black women who are murdered.

I instantly thought of Nicole Smallman and Bibaa Henry when there was a vigil for SH. Where was the outrage for these 2 sisters murdered and then mocked by the Met?

But then on the other hand it was on MN that I read more in depth on their case. But it didn't receive as much coverage at all.

ImpatiensI · 16/03/2021 18:12

@SionnachRua

Didn't you say you were muting me?

Didn't you say you were.. what was it again...oh yeah. "Leaving you to it now, this isn't a healthy place to be."

It's true, this thread is toxic, but I can't just leave accusations of racism go by.
HmmmmmmInteresting · 16/03/2021 18:14

Funny how racists are more aggrieved about being called racist rather than, ya know, being racist!