To black people - what are you doing to ensure your black children GET PAID

[samosamo]

Dear Black Women,

I am thinking about things I can be doing now to prepare my children who are black, who look black, and who have names which suggest they are black, for life in this world as an adult needing to make money despite all of that.

Yes yes, maybe in 20 years the world will be a different place and their cvs won't be rejected because the name doesn't fit, but just in case?

What are your thoughts on ways to make money where they can be anonymous? I'm thinking about the stock market at the moment. They can go in and become traders very simply and they simply interface with some graphs on a screen. Being black, female, young, old, none of this matters it is truly a level playing field. But finance is my bias.

Can you think of anything else where background truly doesn't influence how well you can do?

@SendHelp30

Unfortunately because that’s still perceived to be the way for black people to escape poverty. By being entertainment while white people make money of them being the entertainment.

DP is entrepreneur. My DC complain he's always working. They're right, of course.

God I really don't know how to advise my children sometimes, but that's parenthood!

I do what you suggest with my DC, but also tbh I often find it hard to talk something up while not talking something else down, when discussing with children, anyway.

I totally understand what you mean. I used to work in banking and my son also complained I was always working which I was. But all the evenings I spend in the office didn’t correlate to an exponential growth in my income. So basically I was spending all that time making money for the bank without directly receiving it in my pocket.

I know being an entrepreneur is not for everyone, especially in the beginning it’s extremely hard and with a lot of uncertainty.

And I try to look at it this way, I can not predict what my child will do with his life. But I am trying to make sure I give him all the tools he needs to win. So when he goes out in the world he has options. He can work for the family business, start on his own or work for someone else which also can be very valuable. I just want to raise him knowing he has options beyond being an employee. So he doesn’t needs to settle because he needs to make money.

Yes, its the draw of the family business that keeps me going. Basically ensuring employment first your descendants.

For your

@NLisa
Sounds you're doing a great job with your son especially as he's showing the inclination.

The point you make about not everyone wanting to own a business is a very valid one - one of my sisters ran a very successful but stressful business from a young age. Smart girl, hardworking and driven but it did trigger a mental health issue for her and I recall her saying that she just couldn't switch off as she knew so many employees and the success of the business depended on her. Maybe she would have stayed with it if she had the right resources/help in place but she gave it up and has always said that she prefers doing a good paid job and not having to worry too much when she went home.

But for those who can do it and can strike a balance of success/profit and personal well being I'd definitely say go for it.

Thanks for the tips!

@maggiethecat Thank you, I appreciate that.

I am so sorry to hear that about your sisters business. At some point in the business there need to be systems installed to make sure the business future is not solely dependent on that one person. But that’s extremely hard without proper guidance/ mentoring/examples.

Unfortunately they don’t teach this in schools as much.

Thank you so so much for this thread. I bookmarked so many things. Just TTC but hoping it works out so trying to think ahead and be prepared!

It's all about education. If you are well educated - you will make something of yourself. It will always be harder of course but it's going to be all the difference between amounting to nothing or being successful.

@breatheslowandtrust

Thanks. I watched the same documentary. My take was not so much that they were uncomfortable in the spotlight, more that those grads were uncomfortable in the white gaze, the whiteness of the city culture etc.

This thread has developed into a little more, but as a confident intelligent 20-something person I can tell you I smashed interviews and still didn't get the job. I remember feedback from one interview was that I was great but my 'choice of words were too precise'. So, I spoke too well.

So, my original question was, how can I equip my kids to make money and provide for their families even when they are the very best candidate and don't get the job (and sometimes it will be because they are black).

Another way to put it - tell me about income streams are prejudice free.

@breatheslowandtrust

Have you experienced racism due to your black skin?

@breatheslowandtrust

Yes, I asked black parents specifically, but since you took the time to contribute, I will say this:

Racism is not in our heads, it certainly exists. We agree on that. We cannot over prepare our children for its impact, given people die because of it, let alone being paid less or not getting that job.

I did not say those grads were uncomfortable around white people, I said they struck me as being uncomfortable around whiteness. We learn to separate white people and whiteness out of necessity, though I'll allow that is often that is a mistake. For example, I can quite happily speak to you, a white person, on here, but your whiteness (which I think led you to point the finger at where you consider black people are lacking rather than at racism which has and is unfortunately shaping us and our responses) I find objectionable.

Racism is the problem, not that we are not confident enough, or have a weak handshake, or do not like the spotlight.

I asked black parents because someone with your life experience has absolutely no clue.

To reiterate black parents trying the best for their children are not the problem, racism is.

@breatheslowandtrust

Look, it's ok. I'm not trying to be didactic here, so please don't take it that way. It would be great for you to think about the points you made and where your thoughts come from. We all live in this racist world, none of us are immune.

When it comes to confidence it's an interesting one. The levels of confidence (conceit?) i witnessed on display in my previous life in a finance firm and further back at oxbridge were staggering. Lots of blah blah, rah rah, yea, yes, yes I already know, yes yes, you can't tell me anything new. And they do get the job. These aren't ways we're raised culturally by large. So we have to develop that personality and come home and show humility, consideration etc. Being that person in a Ghanaian household on the weekend is not going to go down well at all. When I did that I didn't even like myself.

I'm personally tired of black people having to develop two sides and bring the fabricated one to work.

Anyway, I could go on. My hope is just that white people think fully about the way they see us if they go as far as comment on it or give advice.

I read all the comments which have now disappeared with interest. These types of attitudes are what Black people, and specifically Black women are up against, it's no wonder as a collective it's an uphill battle for us to succeed.

Quiet confidence is what I'm instilling in my DC, as I personally dislike the type of braggadocious behaviour that propels you to the top of a queue, especially if it's coming from an independent school educated white man.

As a dark-skinned Black women, I have experienced shock and wonder many times from white people when I speak with knowledge or don't cower in their presence. At this point, it seems to me that white people as a whole expect Black people to be meek and deferential, and if we can arm our DC to sit outside that mould, it will assist them in progressing.

I'm relieved that those posts have been withdrawn. I made several attempts to respond to them but had to keep deleting them - and meanwhile my blood pressure was rising.

The idea that (specifically) well educated black students are not getting pupillages, or places at conservatoires, or fast track training for whatever - because they lack 'strong handshakes' or are nervous about talking to white people ... FFS.

The level of some people's lack of understanding is astonishing.

@samosamo I took a deep breath when I read @breatheslowandtrust posts, and I cheered when I read your responses. The idea that one television programme is empirical evidence to suggest Black children's failings left me lost for words.
Of course we should model the things we want our children to learn, but an excellent private education will give our children all the soft skills that are needed to hold their own. I could say more, but I don't want to derail your excellent thread.

@Soma I had no intention to return to this thread but since you @ me I feel obliged to respond.
At no point did I say Black people are failing their children, my point was the that education is not enough by itself (as the OP pointed out on the first page) and nor will being a member of the chess /french/hockey club. Gone are the days when universities care what extracurricular clubs you did in primary school.

but an excellent private education will give our children all the soft skills that are needed to hold their own

That is all well and good if you can afford an excellent private education, but what about the ones who can't? How can they access the soft skills? That was my point, I made it clear that we could not. If you look on the plethora of private vs state threads of MN the consensus seems to be that you are not only paying for the 'hard' education, but for the confidence, self-assuredness (and the firm handshake is always mentioned) and self ease that a private education is thought to bring.
I certainly do not think the programme is in any way empirical, but IIRC it touched on socio-economic factors that can contribute to anyone not getting past the interview stage, which of course is even before you factor in race/ethnicity. (I think it mentioned that most of them went to deprived inner city schools?) So again, my point, if you can't afford the extras then what can you do that will help? I made it clear that as the mother of mixed race children this is very close to my heart. I again apologize if I offended anyone, it really wasn't my intention.

The above poster absolutely did say they consider black parents preparing their children for (the) racism (that they will surely face) was in fact developing an 'us and them' attitude and that this was a/the problem.

Nobody in this poster's family will ever know racism that my family know given her very presence as a white earner/mother/partner affords them those entirely unearned white privileges I can only shake my head at in disbelief. So all, please don't take on what she has to say or let it upset you. Bless her for thinking she can come on here and tell us how to raise our children and what is too much in terms of building up their resilience to racism.

Oh goodness this is one of those moments where you learn something vital that your white privilege meant you'd never even considered.

I'm so sorry you have to think like this.

May I add something? I work in the women and girls sector we sometimes have funds to pay women to do work. The women always undercharge we tell them to charge more! It's a confidence thing.

Please ensure your children have the confidence and knowledge to charge what they are worth (if this happens to be relevant for them in their chosen line of work)