To black people - what are you doing to ensure your black children GET PAID

[samosamo]

Dear Black Women,

I am thinking about things I can be doing now to prepare my children who are black, who look black, and who have names which suggest they are black, for life in this world as an adult needing to make money despite all of that.

Yes yes, maybe in 20 years the world will be a different place and their cvs won't be rejected because the name doesn't fit, but just in case?

What are your thoughts on ways to make money where they can be anonymous? I'm thinking about the stock market at the moment. They can go in and become traders very simply and they simply interface with some graphs on a screen. Being black, female, young, old, none of this matters it is truly a level playing field. But finance is my bias.

Can you think of anything else where background truly doesn't influence how well you can do?

[quote SkeletorAttack]@JayDot500 - the biggest takeaway from the secondary education between my siblings and I (one grammar, one private) and my (non-white husband (boarder) is aspiration. These schools train it into you, that you are the chosen ones, getting the best education/resources and you are capable of doing anything you set your mind to.

I honestly think my secondary education was the catalyst to my confidence, and the key to everything I have achieved since. It's this innate self-confidence that I want my children to have forever.[/quote]
Yes, you are very right! I've just read your other posts, you're really making things make sense

Resilience, given current world circumstances, is an important attribute to have. We do need to help our children build resilience alongside confidence.

@CookieDoughKid

As an ethnic minority done good I think it's better for BAME to be as visible as possible in the professional world. It provides role models if anything.

I'll be concentrating on
Good manners (including at the dinner table and knowing what glasses hold what liquid!)
Being as culturally aware as possible and be globally aware.
Very well read.
Cultured in the arts. At least the popular great artists, composers, theatre.

But essentially, what sets those apart is
A) not having a defeatest attitude and blame attitude. Blaming the system, blaming xyz. Honestly I've come across so many and they can't see beyond that. It limits their opportunities.

B) hard graft. Yes it might take a hundred job applications, many interviews, fail and fail again. about exercising network and if not, making your own. LinkedIn, proactively calling recruiters. I recently received a YouTube video of an applicant showcasing the digital work created in their own time. She was offered a job on the back of that. And so many young people shy away from the hard graft that's needed to get that foot in the door. And if working for someone isn't your bag, then it still applies if you want to create your own business/work for yourself.

This applies to all people not just bame or ethnic minorities but imo, I think these two aspects are more prevalent.

I have all these things including compulsory etiquette classes during the last year of primary school and in secondary school. I am well read, well travelled. I have a good reputation and I am well sought after. I am a black woman also and still underpaid.

A recruiter had the gall to try and poach me for a six role and offer me what a junior associate would earn at their firm. How do I overcome that?

Even Viola Davis and all her accolades and brilliant acting chops is still offered rubbish pay for work. Or Tiffany Haddish being told to host (forget which show) for free and not even an offer to cover her costs until Jimmy Kinmel confirmed that while these award shoes pay rubbish and you do do it for exposure they at least pay $20k and expenses.

Black people in particular women still experience a pay gap for the exact same work. It is not something you can positive attitude your way out of.

Speaking about and acknowledging it is not "having a defeatist attitude or blaming the system"

Thank you, thank you.

All ideas and advice has been welcome, some I have in the bag, others not, so all good.

Again, any support with coding? I am not good at it at all, how would I support my child in it, beyond me learning.

Also, I am not a polyglot, learned nothing beyond GCSE languages. They do learn an African language at home. What might be the best ways for them to learn other foreign languages? I had wanted to enrol them in foreign languages groups from early last year but then lockdown hit. When things are back to normal, how would you say? Anything I can do at home now?

I am also setting up chess group for them. But mine are all 5 or under, so some of these things are for the future.

Please keep posting.

Private school. From as young an age as you can afford.

It’s not just the academic advantage it confers but also the confidence, people skills, and connections.

For me I started a stocks and shares isa the weeks after my D.C. was born as well as premium bonds. My parents did it for me through premium bonds and it taught me the importance of savings. Not that I listened! I was 30 before it finally dawned on me.

Next is education. D.C. is only 3 but I'm working closely with her on words and numbers and reinforcing ey education in place with the nursery.

Also connections - I'm trying to broaden my base of friends because the more you do that the more you open up conversations about wealth building.

And we own a couple of buy-to let's so we can help D.C. with a deposit or uni if she so wishes.

My parents came here in the mid 80s and I saw how they suffered to get where they are. Suffering will not be my child's fortune

Hey samosamo

My DC are still too young but my nephews use Tynker and they also do some lessons with their dad outside of school as I think some schools now offer this.

I'm not really aware of other resources but I'm sure people will share soon enough and I guess I will take this as an opportunity to look for age appropriate learning resources for DC when they are reception age

@samosamo

If you/your DC have an ipad/tablet, there are quite a few apps to get them started. My son uses one called "Dinosaur Coding" . I paid some small amount for the full game but there are free levels. He seemed to get it straight away. It's very basic level coding and he finds it fun. Sago School has a coding game too.

@samosamo , there is a thread in Education on coding for children which might be helpful - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/education/4129924-Coding-with-7yo-where-to-start

[quote samosamo]@PompomDahlia Tell me more about your thoughts, if any, about installing confidence? I think this is also key, and actual thought private school would help.

@Rahrahgurl yes, coding, thank you. I know zilch about it. Where would I start for my DC? Is it coding club etc? Mine are all 5 years old and under.[/quote]
I don't have children yet, so I can only speak from my own childhood experiences. I hugely appreciate the education I received, and the culture at my private school where love of learning was encouraged and success was desirable. Though I did struggle as the only non-white girl in my year. I think that it's important for black kids to have a strong sense of identity, so if they are at a very white school then possibly a church family who they can relate to. I think that making sure you have friends over, so exposing your kids to other adults, can be helpful - this wasn't something my parents did much and I was often very shy about talking to adults.

My parents are huge advocates of learning, so our house was always full of books, we did cultural visits to theatres/museums, were exposed to classical music. I feel comfortable going to the opera for example, even though I may only see a couple of other black people in the crowd. To use the classical music example, my parents taught me about black composers, so I saw myself as having claim to it as well. Similarly, we were taught a lot about Black British history at home

A lot of people are suggesting private schools. Please be discerning though. I was privately educated from prep to senior and it took me a good 20 years and counting to shed the stigma they instilled in me that I wasn't good enough. In fact, they actively tried to hold me back. Black children were in an extreme minority, and all the teachers were white with a lot of blatant racism.

Would I privately educate my DC? I definitely intend to. It's the only thing I know, and it has conferred benefits which I can now recognise in among all the thorns. But it must be the right private school with a diverse curriculum, teaching staff and pupil intake.

I don't believe in being or trying to be anonymous. I'm the only one in my family who kept my full African name, I'm also the one who's had the most successful career. What I don't understand is if you're changing your name so you can get an interview, what happens when you arrive at so called interview? surely they can see you're black. Also, why would you want to work for someone who had they known, would have rejected you based on an African sounding name?
I've in fact, made sure my dc have kept their full African names (no anglicised abbreviations).

I also second the private school advice (if you can afford it) otherwise move to an area with outstanding school. My advice for being successful will be:

-Develop in them the love of books - Get them into reading for downtime - READ READ READ!! subscribe to 'FirstNews' newspaper, get them to join local clubs e.g RSPB my dc used to love the regular magazine that came in will lots of exciting news about what's happening to endangered species etc etc
-Include the dc in your discussions about what's going on in the world e.g politics, the economy, social issues.
-Introduce them to the world of Art, visit theatres (lots of good local inexpensive theatres and lots of small free art museums locally).
-Get them into some sport.
-Don't listen to the nonsense on MN about leaving the dc to choose their own school etc or choose whatever Uni & course at uni that will make them 'happy'... this is white priviledge because a white dc will eventually land on their feet regardless of what they study and where (its enough they went to uni!). Many doors are open to them and they feel entitled to that. We are not afforded this priviledge.

You as a parent do your homework early in getting as much info as possible about the schools that match what you are looking for, then sit down as a family and discuss the merits of each one so that your dc understands why they are going to school X rather than school Y that all their friends are going to etc etc.

For university, black dc do not have the privilege of swanning around at university for 3/4yrs, finding themselves or studying the History of Art!
Guide them in their career choices by (thank God for the internet!) searching for information on careers with them, gather informationn from charities like the Sutton Trust. Note which careers seem the most lucrative v working conditions, discuss all of this as a team (there will be many conversations about this) so they are informed.
They will eventually make an informed decision based on what THEY want to do at uni but will be totally clued up on where it will lead and will be more likely to choose a successful field than not. Aim for the best university possible. Take your dc to visit Cambridge/Oxford very early on, 10yrs. Tell them all about people who went there so they start to dream about it.

They might not end up at either, but they will end up somewhere not too far off and less likely to venture to universities at the bottom end of the list.

All this adds together to make a successful academic career barring any SEN, but even with SEN (depending on severity of course), all of the above can help. A successful academic career will in turn open lots of doors for them.

The other thing would be to absolutely take advantage of sectors where ads include the “we welcome applications from diverse groups” speech.

The “racial glass ceiling” still exists where ever you go. Funnily enough the same companies who made big public statements about being diverse during BML had Black employees on Twitter telling a very different story. Just because a company is attempting to be diverse, doesn’t mean there’s a supportive culture and an equal playing field for all.

Hard graft and a positive attitude is a great value to instil, but let’s not kid ourselves thats all it takes for the next generation of minority children to be successful. It’s complete bull. YY to putting yourself out there and going above and beyond. But if your face doesn’t fit the company, despite your qualifications and or experience, you sure won’t be getting the job! I have many a story to tell about arriving for interviews, only to see the shock on the interviewers face that I wasn’t the white, well spoken person they had envisaged meeting after we’d had an initial phone conversation. My name doesn’t give away my ethnicity!

The whole Prep vs State has been done to death on here. I won’t be loosing any sleep about giving my dc a head start, ultimately we only have the framework that’s available to us. In terms of diversity, our prep is far more diverse than the village school where dc were the only brown faces. What I’ve noticed it our prep is not only diverse in terms of ethnicity, but also in terms of the type of families who choose to send their dc there.

Btw great thread op! This is the kind of stuff that keeps me up at night. You can do everything to set your child up for a happy successful future. However they’ll still be underpaid and have all these hurdles to overcome.

Agree with you all.

Just to be clear, I don't particular want my children be anonymous in any facet of life, I probably didn't make my point well. What I mean is, in the Western World, whether it is a corporate role or your own business why you come face to face with customers or other businesses, the racism is obviously profound. My OH runs his own business, he's smashing it, but still comes home with horror stories. Recently another CEO told a friend of mine who runs his own business to go back to Africa and weave baskets because he thought my friend was bargaining too hard. A cousin opened a black hair and beauty shop, with lofty ambitions etc, only to find that Asian businesses had such a grip on the wholesale and import of these items that they strangled her business completely. And we all know about blue chip firms. I know you all have bought the t-shirt.... So what I meant was, if it all comes crashing down one day, God suffer it not the 2030 version of the Third Reich rises up, what tools can I give them to still feed themselves and their family with a roof over their heads.

About private school, please just drop a note about diverse ones for primary (though we did the move to doorstep of top achieving and ambitious state) and secondary (I have 5 years but need to think now, and doing verbal reasoning etc with DCs now). I did go to Oxbridge and have say I hated every nanosecond there and would advocate it to my DCs only through gritted teeth. I really worry about the emotional and psychological impact of white elite institutions on black people. BUT I was also a state school child and so don't know much about private school. I'm thinking North, North West, West and environs. (I don't mean to ignore a state/private school debate here!)

Sorry, of N, W and NW of London. M25 mentally, apologies!

OP there's a half day kids camp that runs in school holidays (online at the moment) teaching coding for 3-8 year olds called Mama Codes.

I've not tried it but heard good reports from other parents at school.

(and thank you for starting the most interesting thread i've found on mumsnet in quite some time - sad and frustrating as it is)

@samosamo, I would go so far as to say, Black and mixed raced children should go to good private schools if their parents can afford it, or if possible with a a bursary and or scholarship. I have never once had to battle to be heard at DCs various schools. I've always had excellent relationships with our schools, and any concerns are heard and dealt with promptly.

Sometimes it might be nice for children to go to a state school from reception to year 2 or 3, to get some local friends if their senior school is far away. If it is a good state school, there might be little risk keeping the child there until the end of primary, with intensive tutoring from Yr 4 / 5 depending on the destination school. If you're looking at schools in N, W and NW London the possibilities are:

1. Channing - girls, not particularly diverse but good all the same. Offer 50% music scholarship for Yr 7
2. Highgate - mixed, won independent school of the year award for 2020. Not particularly diverse, and drugs are somewhat of an issue. Good offering, and they are big enough to offer proper bursaries and scholarships.
3. Northbridge House, mixed, they have two secondary schools. One in Hampstead other in Highbury, it's okay, and some people really rate it. Extra curricular is limited compared to 1 and 2.
4. Belmont / Mill Hill - mixed. Wide variety of exhibition awards, I'm not sure if they attract any discounts. Music and rugby are good. Some people look down on it because it's not Habs.
5. Aldenham, mixed. Offer boarding, have heard that it has excellent pastoral care. It's not an academic high flyer, but it can do wonders with the right child.
6. St Margaret's Bushy - has just become mixed. Not sure what it will be like in the future, but the pastoral care is excellent.
7. Habs Girls and Habs Boys, both hothouses and competitive.
8. North London Collegiate - girls. Hot house, fairly diverse.
9. King Alfred School - mixed. It's a marmite school. Don't be put off by the celebrity reputation. All private schools in London have kids with celebrity and or famous parents. They do well by bright motivated kids, and pastoral care is good.
10. Francis Holland Regent's Park - girls. Solid school, packs a lot of extra curricular in a tiny site.

10. University College School - boys. Solid school, with a slightly more relaxed feel than some other boys schools. There are many more that you could consider, but don't waste your time and money on the really tiny independent senior schools. They won't have the time and resources to offer what you are looking for.

If OP is willing to venture a bit further North into Hertfordshire, I'll add to Soma's list:
Bishop's Stortford college - Solid school, (day & boarding) has its own prep, diverse. Exellent academics without being a hot house.
Haileybury College - Solid school (day & Boarding) very good pastorally, very good academics but not a hot house. Takes average to above average kids. It doesn't have its own prep but 3 good prep schools locally that feed into it.
St Edmunds College - Very very good pastorally. Take very average kids but a high flier will not be failed, also has its own prep.
All 3 schools very diverse.

Another vote for Bishop Stortford College Prep. Mine absolutely loved it there before we relocated elsewhere.

@Rahrahgurl you politely tell the recruiter they have the wrong person as your skills and experience are worth X, and put the phone down on them.

It would be worth it to have a similar list of ‘top’ universities who if not diverse, at least are welcoming towards black students.

My advice to any parent is to choose the best school, college or university possible, whether they are particularly diverse or not. I think University of East London is one of the most diverse universities in England, would I be urging my child to go there, no, unless UEL were outstanding in a particular course or if the course was something like nursing, as it doesn't' matter where you qualify.
Having said all of that, The Tab published an interesting article - thetab.com/uk/2020/11/13/its-official-these-are-the-50-whitest-unis-in-the-uk-182356 .

@Arofan started a really useful thread on Exeter University, which explored this thorny question - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/black_mumsnetters/4038546-Exeter-university
Also it really depends on what your child wants to study, arts universities, particularly somewhere like Falmouth are not diverse at all, but if my child wanted to go, I wouldn't discourage them. The are a lot of Black, and non Black children of colour over on The Student Room forum who worry about going to universities outside London, partly because their parents are discouraging them. Their concerns are real and valid, and decisions should be made as a family as to what is acceptable risk.

p.s. @samosamo thank you for starting this thread...

@Soma it isn't your job to choose a university for your late teen as they are nearly an adult and will be an adult when they go.

It however is your (and the adults in the family they trust) job to dissuade them from going to a low-ranking university.

Even where the choice of the university doesn't matter, you should still dissuade them from a generally low-ranking one as they may not decide to pursue the career their degree directly leads to. They would then end up at an employer with a degree from low regarded university rather than a better one.