shadeism

[allinadaystwerk]

Before I start, have to say I am so happy to find this section. Thank you to the pioneers who fought for it.

Now to the point of my thread, What are your experiences or opinions on shadeism? Does it exist and to what extent?

I think it does exist and I hate it. As a light skinned woman I have seen and heard it happen to people with dark skin. I always challenge it and I am hopeful it will change.

So is there such a thing as 'light' privilege?

My friends daughter said recently that she didn’t have many friends at school because she wasn’t black enough for the black kids and wasn’t white enough for the white kids. Very sad.

A colonial past remains million dollar big business in places such as Ghana. where skin bleaching creams are pushed by the likes of Nivea. You don't see them in the "fyi I'm black, small town in the UK". There's not much profit to be made there is there? Follow the money.

I don't see why a discussion needs to be hidden away either. I'm sick of discussions being hidden away. Done with hiding "difficult" discussions away.

A few articles for those who want to know more.
www.un.org/africarenewal/magazine/april-2019-july-2019/paying-high-price-skin-bleaching

Excellent article from der Spiegel. You might need to click to enter. but no paywall. Very much worth a read.

www.spiegel.de/international/world/skin-bleaching-in-ghana-when-you-are-light-skinned-you-earn-more-a-3a46c628-23b2-4d05-9d32-6cb6deeb4a5a

@user1498572889

My friends daughter said recently that she didn’t have many friends at school because she wasn’t black enough for the black kids and wasn’t white enough for the white kids. Very sad.

This makes me want to weep, and yet makes me angry at the same time. I want to hug that child and make things better.

Shadeism is a black problem. Shadeism is a black problem. Shadeism is a black problem.

Certain royal female falls under racism.
To black people it will fall under shadeism. News reporters tried to find and mention what made her black becuase to a lot of people she didnt look as black.

This is for someone who described themselves as biracial and not black.

I think it's very telling that there are numerous cultures around the world where skin lightening products are normal. Stepping out of the black context, many other cultures suffer from eurocentric standards of beauty.

Has anyone ever watched a Korean drama/film? Plastic surgery is so normalised there, most of the successful actors/public figures have had multiple procedures done. I do recommend watching a documentary about south korean beauty standards, it's the extreme version of upholding the eurocentric phenotype dream. Plastic surgery is so accessible there, teens are often gifted a procedure after graduation from high school. Do we want that for our children? Never!

My DD is not Black but for her ethnicity (mixed, white birth mum, uncommon for the UK) she is quite dark. When I look for toys, books etc from her home country they all purport to be for/of single ethnicity (same as her birth dad) and they are all lighter and more Euro looking than she is. I feel sorry for her birth relatives trying to see themselves represented. Í can see from that Twitter thread this is an issue for Black kids/cartoons too.

I've never heard a DSBW describe a discussion surrounding shadeism/colourism the way you do Zaza but each to their own.

I can't keep quiet about colourism because most of the media we consume reinforces this and as I am black woman raising black sons, I need them to be aware it exists, that they should not be perpetrators and give them other standards of normal, that they and people who look like them are normal and beautiful. I will not have my sons talking about "only dating lighties" (as so many black British schoolboys did/do) and dressing up what is a painful colonial hangover as a preference.

And yes to the PP who said they hate having kitchen table talk out in the open. I was also initially uncomfortable but figured it was for the greater food.

I can't imagine how keeping quiet about colourism makes it better or is divisive. Isn't that what racists say about people bringing up racism- that they are being divisive in order to shut them up?

I am mixed but very dark my sister is almost white and wears white makeup etc. The opportunities given to her over me are endless. Unfortunately even my own (white) family discarded me as inferior as well. I don't speak to them anymore. I've never been to my (black) mothers country I was born and raised in U.K. and yet I can never fit in ever which is very hard especially watching my sister easily mingle in a crowd without the usual questions.

I was also asked by a job agency how 'dark' do I actually get. This made me so mad but also made me think of I was darker it would be even worse which just makes me so sad. That was ten years ago in the City so hopefully things have changed now as I don't work there anymore.

I am black and know shadesim is a reality, but I am skeptical of light and mixed race concerns about shades.

To Zaza's point, see the silence of black women on this thread.

but I am skeptical of light and mixed race concerns about shades.

Why? I'm not thinking you shouldn't be sceptical, but I'm interested to know why.

@greybathmat I’m shocked to hear about your own white family members discard you. Are you close with your parents? I’m asking ask I’m 3/4 and none of that goes on in my family. Both parents would set any family member straight if they were to make skin colour an issue. We are all different skin tones and nobody bats an eye lid.

Don’t let that deter you from travelling to your mothers Country go if you like. I’ve travelled to a couple of parts of the Caribbean alone with my DS and it was a fab experience with just the 2 of us and he was under 5 at the time.

@Birlyjean I'm black.

There will be threads on this part of the forum that you don't agree with but you don't need to engage with them.

I am black and really dark. Where is the silence.

@creativecringe dark skin is lovely people usually have flawless skin and no need for foundation! It’s beautiful I always tell my DS it doesn’t matter what shade you are.

A number of posts on this thread have given me pause to think and if that is one of the thread's effects generally then surely that must be a good thing. I cannot say for sure what the OP's intention was but I would like to think that it was to evoke perspective rather than being divisive.
@Birlyjean - I too wonder about your skepticism toward the concern of the lighter skinned. Is it that you think for the most part that lighter people are happy to benefit from their lightness?
I remember growing up in Jamaica and being called out to by male passers by who would use the complimentary 'browning' to signal their attraction to me. Now that I think back I did feel flattered by these signals but never really thought about how my darker skinned sistren may have been affected by this social norm.
That was a long time ago but it's interesting how my friends tell me that the conversations on race arising from George Floyd's death elicited conversations on colourism in Jamaica.
I believe it is important to speak and raise consciousness so that we can do better. Lupita Nyongo spoke about her experience growing up in Kenya
www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-49976837

...and she wrote a children's book, Sulwe, about a little girl whose skin was the colour of midnight. She has chosen not to be silent on the issue now that she has made it but rather shines a spotlight on it.www.<a class="break-all" href="https://amazon.co.uk/Sulwe-Lupita-Nyongo/dp/1534425365?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-black-mumsnetters-4033740-shadeism" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">amazon.co.uk/Sulwe-Lupita-Nyongo/dp/1534425365

Skin the colour of midnight is a beautiful image.
That book is going on my list to buy for the grand children. Positive images, more needed.
Thank you maggiethecat

I'm mixed. One of my daughters has my colouring my other her white skinned blonde haired dad. As babies I used to constantly get asked are they both mine?
Now older my eldest I had to have 'the talk' with a year before I did my middle & youngest.
She has had racist comments made to her where her brother & sister haven't.
Colourism is definitely a thing.

@EchoCardioGran- I'm getting it for my teen girls too

I read the der Spiegel article which was so depressing. Although you know skin bleaching is happening being informed of the scale of the problem was not good reading.

When I was growing up we had a dark skinned cleaner who we were very fond of and practically adopted but who eventually migrated. She was very ambitious and so I was not surprised at how well she had done and how different she looked but part of the difference was that she had become several shades lighter. I know that she had probably bought in to the fairer is prettier idea but now I wonder if she also did it believing that it would advance her job prospects

Of course it's a thing, you only need to look at history to know this. Shadeism IMO is actually as much a problem as racism because it means there is further division in the black community where there needs to be unity.

Now that I think back I did feel flattered by these signals but never really thought about how my darker skinned sistren may have been affected by this social norm.

Yes! Colourism affects some of the dearest people to me. I am a black woman, but I am a somewhat ambiguous one. I want to learn about the opinions and experiences of other black women. Of everyone, light, dark, mixed and all.

There are plenty of people who can discuss colourism as passionately as racism, or at least acknowledge it. Unfortunately I personally know of many men who don't even want to admit that colourism is a thing. And they can get incredibly defensive regarding their pReFeReNcE for lighties, mixed race women, or women of other races. I want to understand the engineering behind their attitudes towards black women in general, but especially unambiguous black women. Most of these men don't view all black women in the same way. They really don't. Colourism, et al exists. Like, how can my own brother think this way when every woman who supported him from birth was a dark skinned black woman?! I don't want to stay silent, so yeah, I've had many conversations irl about this because this pReFeReNcE is not exactly kept a secret. But I also cant ignore the fact that although I am not that light skinned, I do benefit from texturism, and featurism. That doesn't mean I should stay silent imo, so I'm engaged, but I'm here to learn.

That doesn't mean I should stay silent imo, so I'm engaged, but I'm here to learn.
It's only when we can come together and talk about issues that affect us, and those we love, that we learn from each other through discussion.
That's how we educate ourselves and move forward.

Echo is spot on

😄💐

I'm sure we all have stories to tell. I think the one closest to my heart involves my own mother. I've seen her treated like shit, so much so that I actually swore myself of black Caribbean men as a teen. I then wondered if I was then also guilty of some form of colourist-esque prejudice. But I also felt like that's a false equivalent. My attitude was wrong, generalising is never right. But that is not the same as actually treating women like shit. I used to reason that her skin colour was coincidental to all the ish that happened to her, but looking a little closer, I have doubts. I think if she'd have had more self esteem/self respect, she'd definitely not have fallen for the lies and empty promises.

Does anyone here have a mother/family member actively involved with the reggae raving scene in the UK? My mum is embedded in there. Plenty of fun to have. Plenty of love to have (whatever shade you are). Plenty of stress for women trying to build relationships around it. Plenty of opportunities to expose your children to disrespect/abuse if you aren't shrewd. I sometimes wonder if my experience, when seen via the eyes of black boys, is why boys/men in the black British Caribbean community have a preference for people who don't look like their mothers. Is that too harsh/unreasonable a thought? It seems like an excuse, because obviously men with happily married parents can think the same way. I have wondered why my brother (who is darker skinned than me but has the same features as me) is a colourist. My mum went through crap and he became so protective of her. So why does he argue sincerely about black women being the usual stereotypes? He's never been with an unambiguous black woman. He has dated mixed race women (he's quite conventionally good looking himself so never had much of an issue getting female attention) but he's now with a white woman. I'm not angry about him loving women of other races, I'm angry that he openly dismissed any possibility of falling in love/desiring an unambiguous black woman. He's even extra, not all men who have that pReFeReNcE will denounce dark skinned BW so brazenly, but I'm far from impressed by my brother. Quite disgusted actually.

So yeah, my jumbled up thoughts concerning two people close to me. I can't be certain of my mums situation, but I am certain of my brothers.

@JayDot500 - I'm afraid that I don't have any experience or know anyone involved in the UK reggae raving scene but are you saying that your brother's views were shaped by your mum's involvement in it and because she's dark skinned he's projected her experience/judgment on to other dark skinned women?

I would have thought that the rave scene had a mix of brown/black people?

If the rave scene compares to the Jamaican dance hall then it's likely that your brother views women who attend them to be 'skettel'', of low morals, lacking class etc. Someone who knows the rave scene can perhaps say if the women who attend them are predominantly dark skinned although I would find that hard to believe.