shadeism

[allinadaystwerk]

Before I start, have to say I am so happy to find this section. Thank you to the pioneers who fought for it.

Now to the point of my thread, What are your experiences or opinions on shadeism? Does it exist and to what extent?

I think it does exist and I hate it. As a light skinned woman I have seen and heard it happen to people with dark skin. I always challenge it and I am hopeful it will change.

So is there such a thing as 'light' privilege?

Yes it is a thing. I once read that Beyonce's dad always picked girls darker than Beyonce to make her stand out. If that is true, it worked.

Yes colourism is a thing

You only have to look at Zoe Saldana (a light skinned Afro Latina) being chosen to play Nina Simone (a dark skin jazz singer)
Even the choice of Halle Berry as Storm when she was depicted as a dark skinned woman in the comics
The Disney series with all the princesses where the black princess was depicted in much lighter skin tone and looser curl pattern and straighter nose...the difference was so noticeable it caused an uproar.

A lot of series reboots or books based on dark characters have been redone with the lead actresses all being much much lighter skinned and racially ambiguous

There is a move to cast light skinned/mixed race/racially ambiguous women in place of originally dark skinned women or as the standard of black women.

I see it in the world of show business, but to what extent do you think it exists in everyday life, when you think about your own perceptions, do you think light is prettier, better?

I have been favoured by dark skinned family members especially the older generation. I have had comments about men preferring light skinned women, have even had black and white people say its different for you because you are mixed or light or 'clear skin'

My cousin who has dark skin but her sister is light was once told how she is dark like sin! No surprise it stayed with her

Does this translate to the workplace like white privilege does?

Does this translate to the workplace like white privilege does?

Yep. Look at who advertisers use. That's the shade lots of white people expect black people to be unless they are closely educated with black people.

Lighter skinned people earn more and are less likely to receive jail time or serve shorter sentences than darker skinned people.

It goes beyond aesthetics and "preferences" or showbiz

It is a legacy from racism, slavery and colonialism.

link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s41996-020-00054-1

The darker you are, the more prejudice and abuse you will face.

I accept that as I'm lighter in tone than some other black people that I have a privilege.
Saying that, however, I also used to feel like I didn't belong anywhere, I couldn't call myself black because I wasn't as dark as others.
Now I've come to accept I am black and I will shout it from the rooftops.

Also have a look at this Twitter thread to see how this problem is perpetuated on screen.

Whether it is changing the mums from dark skinned women to lighter skinned women in Raising Dion and The Fresh Prince of Bel Air, casting Amandla Steenberg as the protagonist when the book cover shows a dark skinned girl, replacing dark skinned characters with lighter skinned ones, Kenya Barris' Blackish entire cast passing the paper bag test except Marsai Martin or Chris Rock having to fight for Tichina Arnold (a dark skinned woman) to play his mother when casting wanted a biracial actress.
.

Does it really matter? Yes because representation matters, and unambiguously black people (women specifically) are always the go to for negative roles, the drug addict, criminal, stripper/prostitute, fat angry black women, loud ghetto best friend, reinforcing stereotypes. When was the last time you saw someone like Zoe Saldana, Yara Shahidi, Tracy Ellis Ross cast as the loud obnoxious ghetto friend?

twitter.com/blairsmus/status/1293670125946703874?s=19

Sorry forget the link.

This is definitely a thing. One of my colleagues is darker skinned than his children. He frequently gets asked if their mum is white, and people talk about their lovely colouring. Mum is black too and also has a deeper skin tone than the little ones. His children are ridiculously beautiful children though!

Casting call for Straight Outta Compton

Wow! That casting call is so painful to read.

Colourism is definitely a thing.

@Dastardlythefriendlymutt that casting call was deplorable. I remember sharing it and the conversations surrounding it. I don't know if you have seen a similar one for Kanye's fashion brand? There's probably many, but colourism alive and kicking in the industry.

My grandad was Jamaican-Chinese. I look more Chinese than I ought to. Has anyone heard of texturism? I wouldn't said I'm light skinned, but my colour, eye shape and long, lose curls definitely means I look more mixed than I should. Kinda like how Tatyana Ali is not exactly light skinned, but she probably gets people wondering why her hair texture is that way. 'Exotic' privilege, or texturism, or whatever it's called. As if a saving grace for not being light, my family would always show off our hair (the darker girls have the longest hair on my dad's side of the family). I've always found it repulsive, but didn't understand it all until I grew up.

I have a large family. Of all the black males we have (in my generation), only one has ever dated a black girl, and he is the fairest one. Jamaican culture is colourist, but we were all born in the UK, so their issue is a UK black-caribbean culture issue. We always end up on this subject (sort of banter, but half serious) and it turns into a male vs female issue (with 2 male cousins staying on the fence). Black males can be the worst perpetrators of colourism. Growing up in London, it's everywhere. Young men in Tesco asking each other how many 'Lighties' they've drawn. Etc. Urgh.

The Kanye casting call (google image search result lol)

I think he tried to spin it to mean something else. But at face value, what else were people supposed to conclude.

@Dastardlythefriendlymutt

Yes colourism is a thing

You only have to look at Zoe Saldana (a light skinned Afro Latina) being chosen to play Nina Simone (a dark skin jazz singer)
Even the choice of Halle Berry as Storm when she was depicted as a dark skinned woman in the comics
The Disney series with all the princesses where the black princess was depicted in much lighter skin tone and looser curl pattern and straighter nose...the difference was so noticeable it caused an uproar.

A lot of series reboots or books based on dark characters have been redone with the lead actresses all being much much lighter skinned and racially ambiguous

There is a move to cast light skinned/mixed race/racially ambiguous women in place of originally dark skinned women or as the standard of black women.

When I saw Shadism, I thought the thread was about who could throw the best shade.

alas! shadism/colorism. I am going to start off with Beyonce and her dad.
Matthew apparently grew in a household where he was told to only bring home a white woman when dating. When he met Tina, because she is french creole (another huge hierarchy issue) from Louisiana, he thought he had met a white woman. (apparently creoles in America tend not to marry outside their creole community because they have to keep the hierarchy.

With Beyonce, I think her father had internalized racist bias and also knew what he would get his daughter's talent to be noticed. (let's be honest, Beyonce has talent). Matthew did say he played on what America would accept. This same Logic was used in the Civil Rights Movement. Or in the selection of who got into sororities via Paperbag rule or worked in the master's house on the plantation.

this might come as shock, but I don't think the Angela Davis Photo and hair would have been that impactful had she had C4 hair and shorter.

I also believe that Beyonce may have surpassed coluorism, but not racism. Mainly because she is still being denied a seat at some tables. She decided to make her own. which she has. Kanye should learn a thing or two.

Black fishing is another form of how clourism plays out in society today. Have a slightly darker skin tone with white approved features (I am not going to be describing it as white features solely because there are people around the world who have these features.. it's not owned by a specific race.)

it has become big business. From the Kardashians to huge Instagrammers making money off the back of black esthetics. What this says is that even by being a mixed-race person (black and white) it's not good enough, they have to have a white person who can pretend to be black with everything the white audience or followers want to see.
A lot of black people also see this as aspirational. especially men. I would assume it's the same reason Stormzy was ok staying with Maya Jama considering her behavior and attitude towards black skin/bleak women.
All the black men jumped to her defense and her career grew even further.

This is so insightful. Didn’t know about Beyoncé and her dad. Coming from a west African country we see this in another way as a woman the lighter you are, the more beauty is ascribed to you.

So in a predominantly Black Country, you have women who routinely bleach their skins some to dangerous levels to fit the standard of beauty. Colonialism has a lot to answer for

Yes unfortunately black men are often the worst perpetrators- it is internalized hate of the worst degree dressed as preference.

Take Gilbert Arenas and his bullying of Lupita Nyong'o. He said
“Not to be funny, but can you name a beautiful black woman on the outside … not brown skinned … but Tyrese black. …When you have African features black then u have number#1 lupita n’yongo and she’s cute when the lights are off. Second you have (Ajuma Naseyana ) Sorry but ewwwww… so the black beautiful women you boost up is technically light skinned or brown skinned.”

When told Lupita he called her ugly and a 3 that he would only be seen with in the dark.

Gilbert is problematic as well because he and Laura Govan (his ex) admit he wanted to have children with a biracial/white woman to have light skinned babies. It is never a compliment if a man says you are better choice because of your skin tone/ethnicity over black woman. Why trust someone who disparaged himself, his mother, sister, aunts and people who look like him.

What happens in Gilbert's case when your children come out dark skinned? Genetics is a funny thing. Will he teach them to hate themselves? Nothing wrong with a preference but why is it centred around knocking down other women? Why can't it just be "I like you" why bring in how ugly or unattractive other women are to boost one.

A YouTube channel with a couple (dark skinned male, light skinned female) were in trouble for complaining shortly after their baby was born how she didn't have blue or green eyes like her older sibling and her mum, they were just brown and she looked a bit darker. Seriously?

I think even the necessity for Beyonce's song "brown skin girl" deliberately referencing dark skin girls (Lupita, Kelly Rowland, Naomi Campbell) and "nappy" (type 4) hair shows colourism is a thing that needs addressing.

Even the mess that resulted from the #brownskingirlchallenge after the song's release shows just how ingrained in our society colourism is.

You only have to look at the hate Blue Ivy receives for being darker skinned than her mother in the media as compared to say Kim K and Kanye's daughter North.

“Not to be funny, but can you name a beautiful black woman on the outside … not brown skinned … but Tyrese black. …When you have African features black then u have number#1 lupita n’yongo and she’s cute when the lights are off. Second you have (Ajuma Naseyana ) Sorry but ewwwww… so the black beautiful women you boost up is technically light skinned or brown skinned.”

I remember this playing out on Instagram. He has now apologized since Black is King the movie has been out and brown skin girl.
I do not accept his apology.

the same way I am not willing to accept the deceptive that is Childish Gambino Aka Donny Glover. Having ago at black women and their skin Colour and then having a child with a white woman whom he hid from the public eye based on his previous comments. Cleaned up his act and started singing about racism. His most impactful piece 'This is America'. Fiar enough, but it does not take away his misogynoir or his love for Redbones another term for I don't like dark skin women. (featured in his albums)

You only have to look at the hate Blue Ivy receives for being darker skinned than her mother in the media as compared to say Kim K and Kanye's daughter North.

this was so bad, to the point someone went and started an online campaign for Beyonce to relax/straighten/ her daughter's hair at about age three because it looked messy. people knowing went ad signed this petition.
five years down the line, they are all praising how healthy blues hair looks. it's all very uncomfortable as something to think about.

Another horrible craze on the internet i.e Youtube is the constant gelling of edges by those who make hair wigs videos. I believe this was born from the need to hide the happiness of one's hair hairline and have sleek whitish-looking European hair. There is zero need to gel wigs when you already Lace-front. it's already natural looking.

The more I think about it, the more there examples there is which shows colourism has not gone away at all.

Recently, during BLM, Alexandra Burke stated that she was told not to gel her hairline because people would assume she was rude and too black. She was not allowed to braid her hair. Also told to lighten her skin tone, which she refused. The hate she generally gets is disproportionate compared to others, in my opinion.

Glad to see this debate happening. It's a serious issue thats deeply engrained. I think it affects women more than men too. In the UK dark skinned women are almost invisible in media. This has a knock on effect.

I wonder how it makes us feel about each other as women? I love my dark skinned sisters and see utter beauty in their shade. I see black skin as the most aesthetically beautiful of all in all its glorious shades. I applaud the rise of the 'black girl magic' revolution and celebrate the natural hair movement. I wish those in power could do the same...or even just the media brainwashed men for a start. 🤦🏽‍♀️

I'm dark skinned and always felt just black as I grew up in a completely white area it was when I started mixing with my black family abroad that I was told I was sooo pretty for a dark skinned girl.
I also noticed that white men would pay me more attention than black men if I was with mixed or lighter skinned black women.
My husbands black and my little girl is darker than me absolutely beautiful bright and is already aware that light skinned girls are more likely to be in tv shows and magazines.
Her Nigerian friend once said to her "friend A" is a raw chip (white girl) I'm a cooked chip ( slightly lighter than my daughter with a dark father and light mother) and your a burnt chip!
Unfortunately her mother said it was just a joke, if Children were to make a joke about her daughter being overweight or black she wouldn't like it but apparently it's acceptable because they are both black.

@Ghanagirl123 you and your dd sound stunning. The ignorance from friends dm is typical. Smh and kmt

Defo a thing. I'm old enough to remember the song "Love mi Browning" by Buju Banton. A bloody song about ffs. KMT.

I absolutely think it's a thing, not just in the media, I've seen so many real life examples.

I'm lighter skinned mixed race, DM is black. My brothers are both darker than me by far. DM eventually came to the conclusion that I didn't develop darker skin because of my hair colour (red). I saw how my brothers were sometimes treated so differently to me.

DM regularly pointed out situations where a person clearly thought they were 'better' than other people because they are black with lighter skin. I learned to spot the traits in those entitled people. DM's brother was treated like royalty in the Caribbean because he is mixed race and not 'full black'. I've seen how DM feels about the issue. Thankfully, I'd rather spend my time proving to people that I don't have a superiority complex and making true friends, instead of strutting in with an air of superiority and wondering 'why everybody seems to have a problem with me'. There have been times where I've felt I have to try a bit harder to be taken seriously by other black people, which is a bit annoying as sometimes I want to just jump into things with both feet and start making friends with and conversing with people who know about my heritage and culture. It's always been worth that extra effort though

On that note, I feel like I've made a few friends here already so when's the meet-up and who's bringing the brown chicken?