Due September thread 10 - On the downhill slope...

[Kiwifruit]

Here's the new thread ladies - may it be as chatty as the last 9!!

The first time I went to my nearest Mothercare, I didn't realise that the left side of the shop was for boys and the right for girls - and just gravitated left-wards (probably the same as I do if I go into a museum or gallery or something). The baby-gros on that side had pictures of pirates and treasure-seeking on them - or dogs and pawprints - while the ones on the girls side (when I realised) had things like 'angel' and 'pretty' on them. I think I'd rather be a pirate - more exciting. Obviously if this is a girl and she grows up wanting pink clothes and a tiny tears doll, then maybe I'll have to bite the bullet - but I'd like to try, as far as possible, to avoid the stereotyping. My MIL was one of four, with three brothers, and she hated the pressure to be girly because she was a bit of a tomboy. I think she felt that she disappointed because she wasn't 'pink' enough, as it were.

Jessysmummys: Yes - bloodied but unbowed! Thing is, I get the feeling that some people don't want healthy objective debate - they just want to demonise anyone expressing an opinion differing from their own, casting that person as critical and insensitive for doing so. (And they suggested I was judgmental...) I thought I'd been falling over myself to suggest that the opinions were personal - and that all I was saying was that a course of action should be chosen advisedly. My father used to go to work, grey with pain, when passing a kidney stone - whilst other people I've known have retired to bed with morphine. Personally I think this was an act of lunacy - so it's not like I'm completely against pain relief, ever.

In h&m - mix in somethings from boys section with things from girls depart. With ds I'm determind for him to wear interesting clothes rather than just blue & dark colours. My dds have decided this as well - I'm ready for some interesting outfits!!

RZ - what did you say about pain relief in labour that caused a stir??

Well - it's a bit long and involved to describe. Apparently suggesting that there was research to indicate that an epidural might have a negative effect on subsequent labour was insensitive. Also - I mentioned the negative impact opiates and (it transpires from a recent Reuters article) some epidurals can have on the baby and particularly with regard to establishing breast-feeding. My opinion is that a decision about pain relief shouldn't be taken lightly - because that's the point of 'informed consent' surely: taking on board the negatives as well as the positives. I wasn't suggesting that people 'in extremis' should have the drugs dashed from their lips, as it were - but some seemed to be drawing the analogy between root canal work and labour, which I personally think is specious and fails to take account of the second person affected by the decision. I also don't go in for the line that all that matters is a healthy mother and a healthy baby: obviously both coming out alive and injured is the primary objective, but I also think it's an good cover-all for various interventions: even 'healthy' is a subjective term.

I'll change my dressings and put my crash helmet back on...

Well - that was what I was trying to say. It all got a bit twisted...

I thought that your points were well made and valid - and that's having had epidural and pethidine when labouring withdd. Didn't go into it inending to - in fact birth plan said no thanks. But got scared and freaked out, hating the whole hospital environement. This time, as trying home birth, obviously pain relief options are limited. But I am convinced that the completely numbing epidural conributed to bad tear as pushed like crazy, with mind altering pethidine not helping me interpret instructions like "pant"! But I'm going to play it by ear, and if it turns out that I can't cope again, then I guess I'll be transferred to hospital. Hope not though...

I am quite anti pink too and dressed dd in lots of lilac instead and agree even when in frilly pink dresses I got asked how old he was when she was quite small. Now she has long hair and likes dresses (much to my disgust, don't mind the hair but dresses yuk) It is not a problem.

Milward - Glad I could help cat me if you get confused by anything they are saying to you.

Have stated categorically that i do not want pethedine this time round as i lost control when in labour with dd. But will go for the epidural if i am not coping very well on just gas and air. Tens just pissed me off. Each to their own however. I do think it would be bett4er if we were better informed about the risks we take with the drugs available though instead of just being told it's perfectly safe here have it and stop asking awkward questions!!!!!

Have to say that the epidural was bliss when it arrived. And the pethidine didn't pass onto dd, who got 9 then 10 in AGPAR.

Did start to wonder at some stage where they were getting the epidural from or if the anethestist had got lost when in labour with dd but was great when they finally managed to get it done only problem i had was having two midwives and the anethestist arguing about how to put a canular in and making three attempts before it was done.

To anyone interested in the gender stereotyping of babies/toddlers, I highly recommend There's a Good Girl: Gender Stereotyping in the First Three Years - A Diary by Marianne Grabrucker. Really made me think, and a great read.

RZ, thanks for asking after my SIL. They're back from France now and she'll start having tests in a month or so. They're coping, but everything seems to have gone wrong for them lately - they're in business together and have had some bad blows there, and they returned early from their holiday to find 2 of their 3 cats had gone missing. One of them is back now but the other's gone for good it seems, and then today, the 3rd cat got run over and is critical at the vet's. If bad things are supposed to happen in threes then they really are having more than their fair share. SIL is a real cat-lover and they would have been such a comfort to her right now - it seems so cruel that they should have to deal with these losses on top of the awful loss of their little one

Oh your poor poor sil, Franch. What rotten things to have happened. The missing cat may still be found, though - one of mine went missing for about 2 weeks then turned up at a cat rescue place having been run over and had a broken leg. Made a full recovery. I'm sending positive vibes.

And I'm going to order that book too! I sometimes wonder whether I don't go too far in the other direction, although dd has a real mixture of toys, including dolls. The reason I find the tiny tears one so objectionable is that I just don't like plastic real-life dolls, particularly ones with "realistic" voice and facial expressions. Says mama, burps, cries until dummy put in and drinks from a small pink bottle (ebm???). I just find it a bit freaky (but then I find most toys that speak a bit spooky really - one of my personal phobias!).

Thanks Pooka. I'm still hoping about the missing cat too, but they did get a call after putting up 'reward' posters from someone who thought they'd seen it dead. Friends of theirs are sure they saw it alive after that date, but it's all a bit confused. Fingers crossed - it's all just a bit too unfair.

Hi all. Thought it was just me that is exhausted and can't sleep!

What do these numbers (3/5 or 4/5 etc) mean when you talk about baby's head engaging? My bump has definately dropped and DH is convinced I'm about to pop any second (I'm 33 weeks today). Is he right? I don't remember my bump dropping at all with ds (but then he was three weeks early).

Hey Pooka - I've got a ds and thought a boy might be nice for him (a buddy to play with), but I wuuld really love a girl (seeing how close I am to mum, and how my brothers sort of drifted away from her over time).

The only things you need to know about boys bits are - COVER IT UP during a nappy change (otherwise you get sprayed), make sure it is pointing down (towards the toes) when you fasten the nappy, and don't mess with the foreskin or try and retract it at any stage (there is a useful thread on mumsnet on this topic) if you are not thinking of circumcision. Oops. Bet you didn't give the "c" word a thought until I mentioned it. I think hardly anyone does that anymore (unless for religious reasons).

My bump is dropping too - and I was carrying low and all out front to start with! Feeling very heavy and achy.I keep thinking its coming early - but I know its wishful thinking - bet I'm late in the end!!!

franch - you sil's luck must be about to turn - I hope she has some good news soon.

I'm sending fantastic dreams and rested sleep to us all!!

Oooh no - no circumcision here. Ouch
A friend with a boy rassuringly said at least everything is visible and you know when you've done a good job with wiping! This is the same friend who's boy projectile peed all over her wedding dress and peed in his own mouth when he was tiny!

Went to the hospital today to discuss things to do with my last birth. Glad I told them that I had Group B Strep last time as I'm not sure anyone would have realised. My hospital's policy is that if you have had GBS before, you are treated assuming you do have it, so I will need to have antibiotics every 4 hours when in labour.

Also I will need to get to hospital quite soon after labour starting and/or waters breaking. Need to work out how DS will get looked after - in an ideal world my waters will break early on a Monday or Wednesday (days DS will still be at nursery), DH and I can drop him off and go to hospital and then baby brother/sister will come along... Something tells me things won't be quite so simple .

Good news is that my blood pressure is still at a nice normal level - I continue to be optimistic that I won't have pre-eclampsia again. And also that I won't have a PPH again .

Bought some more baby things - and tomorrow I am intending to start going through DS's small clothes.

Our excitement at th emoment is that we have just got Freeview. Both DH and I are enjoying the new variety of channels. Something tells me we don't get out enough .

About the 3/5 or 4/5 or whatever. I think that it means that if the midwife writes 4/5, only 1/5 of the head can be felt, the remainder being in the pelvis i.e. low down. Or it could be the other way round???? Not v. helpful

With the 3/5, 4/5 etc there are two schools of thought by midwives. Some would use 4/5 to mean that 4/5 of the head is in the pelvis and 1/5 isn't, whereas others would use 4/5 to mean that they can feel 4/5 of the head ie only 1/5 is in the pelvis.

Last time I don't think anyone ever put how much engaged DS was - I don't remember them doing it anyway.

Mummyhill - thanks for your support. Will know more on the 17/08 - wish I'd asked more questions but was unexpected and I wasn't sure.

RZ - have checked the thread out. Seemed to get abit heated. Not sure why as there are always side-effects to all drugs (I think!).

On my part think it important to see how labour goes and then to make the choice on what to have. I had an epidural for my first & I needed it. There was no discussion on wait awhile as it was agony as dd was back to my back and my labour was quick. The epidural helped me cope & I delivered with no probs in a birth chair.

With an epidural the risk of instrumental delivery & labour slowing down are reduced by staying upright. Epidurals can lower blood preassure so not always possible to stay upright for mums effected by this. If you have an epidural ask to be as upright as possible & comfortable. Sometimes can have a mobile epidural.

With my 3rd labour (1.5hrs)I told my birth supporter that I wanted an epidural. She reminded me when I was in labour but at the moment of no return I felt just normal & fine so didn't have one. I couldn't believe I was in labour. The only other pain relief options for me are tens, water and physiotherapy. I had a physio help me which was wonderful for the backache and staying in an upright position. I tried water - also good.
I had to have an epidural right after delivery so that retained placenta could be removed as I had an immediate pph. An experience worse than childbirth for me.

Picadillycircus - I had group strep b last time. I asked my doc last week about this happening again. She said that I might not have it even though I've had it before. They'll do a check at 36 weeks to see on this.

About the GBS, I asked if they test at my hospital, as I know some places do test at 36 weeks, but they said they didn't as the test isn't always accurate. I know that the NHS test is about 50% accurate and that there is a private one you can have done for about £18 I think which is rather better.

Think I'd rather have the antibiotics than have the worry I had last time about DS (as I didn't find out I had GBS until after he was born).

Hi STM, trawling way back on this thread, saw your concern about cot death. Take a look at this site on baby monitors.

The motion sensor monitors (such as the "Hi Sense" brand) are recommended if you have cot death history in the family, or if you just want extra peace of mind. This is the brand used in some hospitals around the world (apparently premature babies have a higher risk of cot death).

My husband got us one while I was pregnant with DS, and I thought it was crazy, but he was very insistent. It was lovely to see the little green light flashing away reassuringly to show us the DS was sleeping and nothing more sinister was happening.

We got the Hi Sense brand - the one with the little elephant on it in the picture(there are others and some of them have problems giving false alarms, but we didn't have any problems with ours).

However, when DS was about three months old the alarm went off to say he had stopped breathing. By the time I got to him (DH said I ran like the speed of lightening) he was blue! He was on his back, nothing was obstructing his face, but he was definately NOT breathing. I lifted him up and he was all limp. I must confess that in my panic I did give him a small shake, and he then gave a sigh and started wailing (and breathing!)

Who knows if he would have started breathing again on his own? Maybe he would have. But it was 3am and both DH and I were in a very deep sleep. We would not have checked on him again for hours. I do believe it saved DS's life and made things a lot less stressful for us because we didn't need to do our own checks on whether DS was breathing - the monitor (which works by having a pad under the cot/basinett matress) did that for us.

By the way, we had read all the literature and had ensured that DS had not been exposed to any of the known risk factors for cot death.

The only time it ever gave us a false reading was when DS learned (at 13 months) to stand in the minute gap between the pad and the edge of the cot - sounding the alarm and laughing his head off to see us scramble to attend. We stopped using it then (although friends of ours used theirs until their dd was 2yo).

Personally, I believe that this was the best investment we made. Our monitor is currently on loan to someone with a baby girl, but we'll be getting it back when our new baby is due. I would not be without it.

I know it is not for everyone, but just thought I'd let you know about it in case you hadn't heard of it. TBH, I had never heard of it until DH mentioned it and I thought he was mad at the time, but after DS stopped breathing like that I was so glad that we had it.

my pushchair arrived yesterday so i spent ages playing with that.........then dp and i got frustrated with each other trying to fit the car seat in our miniscule car. i really don't like instructions with obscure diagrams!!!!! we got there in the end.

antenatal last night was a breastfeeding session and i nearly started a row (hormones making me short tempered). there is a childish 'man' in our group (have known him for a few years) who made the anticipated comment about it being 'disgusting and bang out of order' to breastfeed in a cafe and how we should do it in a 'toilet or something'......dp was cringing next to me as i launched a tirade at him. grrrrrr this is the same person who was practically drowning on his own spit two weeks earlier at the half naked ladies on Top Of The Pops. we had a mother of two come and answer questions about b-feeding and a lot of the group don't seem to understand it can be done discreetly. i don't want to go on about it as i totally understand its not for everyone, and i actually think it should be avoided as a group discussion at antenatal for the very reason it is so emotive. i don't like the way health professionals are bullish about getting mums to take it up.

slept quite well last night for the first time in ages, but eating is proving a challenge at the moment. my stomach seems to have shrunk to the size of an egg cup. i had a slice and half of toast for breakfast and felt like i'd stuffed myself!

my sister is supposed to be coming round this afternoon to bring me some stuff she has brought for baby, hope i can stay awake while she's here. i've got into a dreadful habit of having an afternoon nap!

Hello KiwiKate

Yes I've recently bought a baby sensor monitor. I didn't have one with ds as my dh said it was unnecessary - but I did spend a crazy amount of time checking on him! I hope this monitor will be reassuring as you never know. I think its worth the spend for peace of mind.