Due Jan 2010 - watching our beans grow into bumps :-)

[sazlocks]

As we all talk so fast the last thread is nearly full so thought I would start us off on a new one

Oh Quirkychick here I go again agreeing with you! We co-slept with both our DC. And it was the best and indeed only solution, particularly with my DS, now 5, who was a very troubled sleeper for quite a while. Now he's wonderful. I think it gives children that extra security and in Japan, for eg, it is the NORM to sleep with one's baby/toddler. Here in France they frown upon it and make you feel a little perverted. But right from the first night at the clinic I insisted on keeping my little one next to me.

The best thing for me was hearing my (French) husband telling a most conventional 'I want my wife for myself and the baby in its own room' kinda of friend how he had been influenced by me re: co-sleeping and how it was the best thing we could ever have done and how much he loved it. How can one resist having those small, warm bodies cuddled up next to you? And if that's how we feel, imagine how the baby must enjoy it!

Oh londonlottie the most useful and basic of all essential babystuff are ..... MUSLIN SQUARES!!!!

LondonLottie I really sympathise re the carpel tunnel. I have had something similar since my early teens - had a really bad bout early this year when I would wake up in excruciating pain, to the point of tears. There are some exercises you can do to try and release the space in the your wrists - I think you need a physio to show you, but there are loads of videos of youtube of people demonstrating different exercises. Also, I think if your upper back/shoulders get out of kilter, the blood flow from your thorax to your arms can be restricted, so your massage may help.

Am most definitely feeling the baby now, which is great. Has anyone else noticed how much more pronounced the pulse in your tummy is? I think there must be a big artery that gets pushed to the surface by the bump, because I can see my tummy pulsing...

I second muslin squares for things you need. A few clothes. Somewhere for them to sleep (unless co sleeping of course), some way of transporting them (car seats and/or pram and/or sling). Probaby some baby blankets, especially as these are winter babies... but I got loads as presents... I am now truthfully struggling to think of anything else you really need. I did really like the baby sleeping bags once dd was big enough to go in them, and they are pricey over here, so may be extortionate in Switzerland?

londonlottie you can also 'mumsnet' bumfluff nappies, the owner is poster flamesparrow often found giving advice in the mumsnet nappies & potty training thread! I saw here www.mumsnet.com/Talk/nappies_potty_training_etc/798845-Did-you-know-Bumfluff-is-closing-down about the site closing down.
Lots of cloth nappy mums to chat too in this section too. I agree its all very confusing!

I got loads of muslin squares and never needed them. DS1 only possetted twice ever (and not on me luckily!!). Hoping this baby will be the same!

We have a side-car cot, and did a fair amount of co-sleeping too. It's lovely when they wake up next to you, they have no need to cry to get your attention

Yep I've got the pronounced tummy pulse Biccy, happened pretty soon after got pregnant.

Just planning DS1's 3rd bday party, getting very excited about going all mumsy and doing some cake eating baking!

oh, but I used muslin squares for all sorts of things - emergency nappies, to line the changing mat so I wasn't putting her little bottom on cold plastic, emergency sheets, emergency towles, emergency sun shades over pram hood and over her legs and arms when in the sling, for discretion when breastfeeding in public and not wanting the world to see my nipples before she had latched.... all kinds of things.

But then, I am a muslin fan... I took one to bed with me to cuddle until I was about 25... , so, any excuse to have large soft bundles of them around (M&S ones are really soft, whereas mothercare ones are a bit scratchier...)

towels, not towels, oops!

We didn't make a decision to co-sleep, but after the first 4 nights of no sleep dd very soon found her place beside me. And once I had mastered breastfeeding lying down it was a revelation..

Ooh, there's another use for muslin squares, I used to fold them up and put them under my breast so it was at the right height for dd to feed when lying down...

I have a question about co-sleeping that I've always wondered - do you go to bed at the same time as your baby?

I'm very fond of our evenings together - more so once I went back to work - and wondered how it works if you co-sleep?

Presumably you couldn't put baby down in your bed, then head off downstairs to watch EastEnders? Do you keep baby up until you go to bed? Or go to bed at 7pm with little one? (This actually sounds very appealing at the moment).

I agree Anniemac.

While we never 'officially' co slept, we have done quite a bit of co-sleeping. When dd was very tiny we went to bed at the same time anyway, as she just slept on one of us during the evening, and she fed a lot in the evenings when very small - but I wasn't bothered by her being around all the time - I know some people feel insane until they get some time alone. I didn't start a bed time routine until dd was about 4 months old.

Then, like Anniemac, she would start off in her cot, and end up in bed later, though not necessarily every night, it would just depend how the night went - I would often fall asleep feeding her, and just wake up for the next feed, either with her asleep beside me, or still in my arms if I had sat up to feed her! I have to say though, getting her to sleep in her cot at the start of the night could take a very, very long time...

She's 3 now, and about 50% of the time sleeps through in her bed, otherwise just climbs in to our bed at some point, normally after about 3.30am - and we don't mind. Often don't often notice. And it's rather nice all waking up together.

Don't know how it will go this time. Imagine bed time routine may kick in earlier/easier as I'll be doing dd's routine anway, but, as anniemac says, I've got no firm plan, other than to see what feels right at the time.

When dd was very tiny she slept on me/carry cot in same room and I took her up to bed with me, when older in cot and then transferred to bed. I am thinking of a side-car cot this time too. The nurses in hospital put dd next to me and after a few nights of trying GF routines we gave up and had co-sleeping. Everyone slept and dd put on weight/fed.

Muslin squares are great, we still use ours for various things, mopping up etc.

Other fab basic is a v-cushion for breast feeding - dd still sleeping propped up on ours to help with asthma. Will have to substitute it for something else!

anniemac I was one of those who didn't like co sleeping and ds was happy in his own space. We did have a flexible routine that evolved from the hours he slept and it worked for us. Also didn't breastfeed only for a few months - I sound like a terrible mother.

Timmette - I agree with you, tbh I couldn't think of anything worse than co-sleeping. A few times we have had DD in with us for one reason or another, both DH and I were petrified of squashing her. We only have a double bed rather than king size etc and frankly find it only just fits us in snugly. Also, I am a bit of a stickler for routine and certainly our own marital time so this just wouldn't work for us. I've always looked on in horror when people have told me that their 4,5, 6 yr old etc still sleeps with them, that they've always done that and the DH/DP looks on rather sadly, but says that he supports his DW/DP and that he supposes it is best for child... and my thoughts are "really?, he looks like he is crying out for some bootie time"....

Anyway, JMO - as already discussed, it is very much an individual and personal thing and whatever works for the family. Just not for me

Oh no anniemac I wasn't thinking you were judging me, I was judging myself I always thought I would be able to breast feed and co sleep etc and was sad to realise I actually like routine etc.

and totally agree with the muslin squares we had a baby with reflux so they got a lot of use also used them as bibs when he was older and then for dusting etc - prob the best value buy I made.

I had a very idealistic view of life with a baby and dreamt of breastfeeding and co sleeping and blw etc and was rather shocked and disappointed when it just didn't work out like that for me and realised that I loved routine etc. A total shock to the system lol.

Can'tthinkofafunnyname was always terrified of dh squashing ds also and know what you mean about marital time.

I didn't mean to imply any judgement of anybody in what I said earlier... was just recounting how it was for us and meaning to agree that whatever feels right for you and your baby is the way to go, be that co-sleeping, or baby sleeping in a cot, or a combination, as we did.

I do think it's important for first timers to set their expectations though around how much 'you' time or 'couple' time there is likely to be in the first few weeks. Obviously it is important to get some time to yourself, and as a couple, but, IMHO, I think it's dangerous to get into the mindset of 'getting your life back asap', as I think you can set yourself up for disappointment and stress, whereas if you accept that a new baby pretty much needs you all the time, then it's easier to cope with. I had a few friends who got very stressed because after 3 weeks they didn't have their evenings back, and I have to admit that I was surprised that they had expected anything different at such an early stage.

On the fear of squashing front, the advice on co-sleeping is for the baby to sleep on the mother's side, and not inbetween mum and dad, this is also better as the baby shouldn't be under your duvet, as it's too many togs for them. So, you have DH/DP on one side, then you, you wrap your duvet around you and then you have dc. DP rigged up a bed guard out of our old bath panel, as I was worried about dd falling out. I don't think there are any cases of mums squashing their babies (as long as they're not drinking or taking drugs). As I said, I used to fall asleep holding her, and would still be firmly holding her when I woke - like a bird roosting or something!

Biccy I wasn't feeling judged just judging myself - I was one of those with unrealistic expectations of life with a new baby for sure and it was all a shock to me as soon as I realised that I coped better with routines then it was all great again. Half my problem was I read every book going and totally confused myself and felt I was doing everything wrong until dh threw all the books out - lol.

Isn't it funny how email/chat things can get so misconstrued? Nobody meant any offence here, or was judging anyone, just expressing our own opinions in our funny little ways - which seem perfectly reasonable to each of us as we type. Do you think its the hormones making some think they are offending or being offended? LOL

Happy Wednesday all... PS I really am a routine monster!!! But I've had two and had to go back to work at 11/12 weeks post so really needed to be....

Thanks timette. And I agree about books, they can really upset you, although I found one author (Elizabeth Pantley) who gives you a whole menu of ideas, with no prescription as to what is 'right', and I used to find her very calming. Believe it or not, I do actually also believe in a certain amount of routine... it was when I realised that the routine could be just a pattern of how you did things, and not a strict, by the clock, schedule of when, then things got better for me. It really kicked in for me when I was weaning dd - until I got into a more fixed pattern of feeding (which for us was wake up milk, breakfast, mid morning milk, lunch, afternoon milk, supper, bed time milk) she basically wouldn't eat solids at all...

Cantthinkoffunnyname I know and I really was just judging myself - I am my own worst enemy .

Biccy don't worry. Yes we didn't have a strict routine and it was lead by ds and what he wanted but it helped me a lot to have a little idea of what comes next in the day if you know what I mean. Made me feel more in control.

How exciting to be reading about multi-purpous muslin squares: it's bringing back so many happy memories. They're also very good for mopping up those occasional projectile vomits! Not one of my favourite memories, I must say!

To give you an idea of how anal I am about routine.... I've had an au pair for past year and she leaves on 24 August. Prior to this, my other 2 DC always went to childminder, so this is going to be the first time I have been a SAHM and will have to care for them, as a mother should! So, I've already prepared my schedule of what housework needs to be done and on what days, so that I plan in time for feet up and not getting too exhausted, on the schedule is a supper rota - ie I will know what the kids will have for breakfast, lunch and supper so that it is balanced, plus I have "Me-time" pencilled in on certain days so if I have to make appointments, go to visit friends etc, it is a reminder that these are the free days on which to do so.

I ran an event organising company for years, so you can gather anal organisation is my norm!!! Now the rest of you can settle back and think what wonderfully normal people you all are and convince your DPs/DHs how lucky they are to have you and not me who makes lists for everything and gets stressed when ticks are not placed against the tasks!!!