December 08 - a few babies under the tree still need unwrapping!

[EffiePerine]

New thread ladies. I have a feeling I will be talking to myself a lot

thanks Turnip for the latching link - I still have one sore nip so will try his techniques. Thanks for the advice on keeping feeding yesterday (was it you?) - am much less sore and lumpy today so it works! Hope yours feels better soon Kim

Hi all just ducking in after trying to catch but have to say mostly skimmed.

I can't remember who was having the sore boobs at 5 weeks but try to get their mouth nice and wide before putting on the boob they need a good mouthful of your boob not just the nipple. Have a look at the latch pictures on the website and see that the babies mouths will be wide open. I am still having a little pain and my ds has a small mouth so diff to get his wide open but if I don't try they get quite sore.

WG how is your husband? Does he get upset about the fact that you LO wasn't breathing at first? Is it possible that he is stressed about this? This may be way off but babies can sense your stress and fear is it possible that he is stressed or scared that she could stop breathing in her sleep. I worked with a child psycologist once who said sometimes children may have trouble settling sleep if you are scared something will happen to them. I know it sounds a bit far fetched but could be something to think about. Also I wouldn't worry about using the sling only for evenings you can't over do it.

I am loving the Amby hammock ds is settled in it now if he gets a bit unsettled we kind of bounce it and he just settles. He seems to have turned a corner today and suddenly seems a bit settled in his little world. Up til now he has seemed almost a bit stressed or nervous but today a he seems more comfortable.

Kayz did you get the link kmp gave it is probably as good as the one I had.

LT I only just read the great gatsby last year and loved it so let me know if Netherland good.
LT I only read the great gatsby during this last pregnancy

Oops I thought last line was deleted.

Veggie - am off to google an Amby hammock!

cat meant to say hope your DS responds to the cranial. We have had good results with it in the past (not for colic) and I do "believe". Sorry you are doing the night on your own hope your Dh gets better soon.

major hope that sore boob didn't develop into mastitis. I hope your friend is Ok and that the association of new years eve becomes good for her.

WG that sounds so hard for you. Hope your DD has settled down - it is so rough when they are so distressed. Have emailed you.

Katie you must do what is right for you and your two DC. I did eventually feel relief when I decided to switch to ff with DS (having mixed fed with DC1 I felt with two children it was too much hard work to be topping up and b'fing). But that was just me, at that time. I also wrote down a list of pros and cons to help me decide. Mad I know. Be easy on yourself.

Must go to bed...

Someone asked about the no cry sleep solution I didn't read all the book just the bit about how to get them out of the falling asleep on the boob habit. Worked fir us but I
would say we didn't bother using it til he was 6 months. I also got the no cry discipline solution, highly recommend it, it is literally a how to manual for toddlers.

Also I'm not a GF-er have never read the book but would recommend a bath then a feed in low light in the evenings. It doesn't always mean a def no screaming demons night, but I def find if I take him downstairs where we are for any of his evening feeds he kicks off big time and very diff to settle.

Turnip- it's a natures nest baby hammock by Amby, I wish they made big peoples beds like it, I wonder if they could. We mainly got one as it is small and neatly fits on my side of the bed so doesn't take up so much of our room. We were lucky to get one cheap secondhand from a friend, but it is great. I def think this child is a routine boy, I think he will be organized like is dad. I'm worried he will find his disorganized mummy annoying as he grows up.

Trace you keep worrying you are a bad mum, how about me, I keep calling Jordan, Leo, which is our cats name, and in the night DH sometimes has to tell me to feed him when he wakes crying as I either keep snoozing or wake but just pat him as if that will get him back to sleep in my half dazed half still asleep logic.

Hi lovely ladies. Haven't posted for ages, but have been reading to keep up (just!)

I'm so sorry for those of you having a tough time, it makes me feel a bit guilty that we're doing ok here. I don't know if we just got landed with one of those babies that just sleeps, or perhaps it is the routine we are trying to keep. I'll post a bit about it just in case it is of interest to anyone.

At first, he was just feeding all the time, and sleeping all the time. I would feed, he'd fall asleep, then wake up a short time later and the vicious circle would start again! My mum was here with me though (thank goodness!) and suggested that I always try to empty a breast before moving on to the next one, and also to try to not start with the same breast each time (unless he didn't empty it the previous feed in which case it is ok). Don't know if this fits with the standard breastfeeding advice (Veggie will prob know!) but it seems to be working well thus far with lots of wet & seedy mustardy poos and a much more contented bub. I also try to keep him awake during the feed session, so that I can 'tank' him up more. This does mean that it takes a while to finish a feed session (2-3hrs) - but for this small price he sleeps for AGES. At least 4 hrs, sometimes 4.5, sometimes 5. This may also be because he's such a big baby and has a larger stomach so as long as he's full he can keep sleeping for a while. But it is hard work keeping him awake for the feed, and includes lots of nappy changes, burping, awake time & stimulation if he's awake but not grumbly, and at least once a day I wash his hair & bum (other days I give him a bath, but these not usually till he's at least halfway through the feed otherwise he just gets grumpy because he's too hungry). I also time how much he's had on each boob as I'm obsessive compulsive wanting to know roughly how much he's had from each side just in case I'm missing the "this boob is empty" signal. I can usually get about 20-30min of feeding time per boob depending on what he had from it last feed. If I'm unsure I just give it a bit of a squeeze and if it's a bit tricky to get milk out & he's fussing, then I swap over. I've written it all down in a little notebook too as it's helpful to know which breast was last fed from (not always easy to tell with my norks) and have an idea of when he might wake up next.

We also use a dummy. I'm trying not to use it too much, but he has a strong sucking reflex and sometimes if he wakes himself up due to wind (or needing a burp) then it will just help settle him back down again. We usually stay with him for 10 mins or so and pull it out gently when he does the heavier breathing deep sleep thing. Also swaddling is great. If his hands are free he flails them about and just keeps himself awake. I've found I have to use a blanket with a bit of stretch in it though, otherwise he just gets out too easily as it doesn't go back to it's tight fit when he wriggles in his sleep from wind etc.

Before you me too much though, we do have a problem at the moment though too. We left him in a wet/pooey nappy a bit too long & he got thrush on his bum which went to his mouth so I've now also got in my boobs. It's not very pleasant but hopefully the stuff I'm using for it will soon clear it up.

Anyway will try to do some more posts - I've taken copious notes but don't know how on earth I'm going to catch up on it all!

Hugs to you all, XOXOX

oli just read your birth story! How fantastic for you all. I too loved the contraction master - great tip of Traces I think!

Cat was googling Veggie's Amby cradle thing and this website came up Baby reflux.co.uk. You may have seen it but it case you haven't it seems very good. Lots of wedges, positioners etc for sale and also resources and research on reflux etc.

Really tired. Despite having had our best night yet. Daft I know. I do think tiredness is cumulative though!

Bisou sorry cross-posted. All sounds fabulous with your little man. Fantastic! Have you checked out Dr Jack Newman on thrush? (Sorry this si all I ever post in response to b'f queries but I never knew it existed til PD recommended and find it super! Great resource. I also used homeopathy (Veggie will maybe know what, can't recall) (as well as Daktarin gel) and took acidophilus capsules to get the gut back to normal when I had it with DD. I also had a notebook with her too - I totally get the OCD stuff. Hope it goes soon.

But my top tip for the "which boob" question is a hair booble that you just switch from wrist to wrist as I find it hard to remember which I fed from last. I do have one posh feeding bra that has a sliding clip in the centre bit but I find that hard to remember too.

i'm using a bulldog clip which i move from bra strap to bra strap. don't even notice it when i'm asleep.

turnip - thx for email - will settle to read it and digest. i think you are right about the parents having to be more disciplined - we slept in until 9 this morning - maybe that just isn't helping.

Morning gorgeous girls: a super quickie as I am trying to do about seven things at once:

Katie - when I can drive I will come and see you. It's a nice ride to Hereford from here

Major - I know what you mean about putting your maternity stuff away. Or I can guess. I love this stage with DD and I ALREADY KNOW that when I have the next one and it's the last time, I will feel hugely sad.

Cat - you are really going through the mill. I do hope it gets better soon.

Veggie - Netherland is The Great Gatsby but with cricket. Do you like cricket? I still have quite a way to go but enjoying it so far.

Turnip - you have got me all interested in the GF routine now I know you don't have to do controlled crying...

Trace - swill your mouth round with salty water. It's horrid but it does make the ulcers heal faster.

Fab to hear from you, Bisou! Oops, must go as O is yelling...More soon

Thanks Turnip, I'm taking acidophilus tablets & was using Daktarin gel but have now switched to Nystatin drops as it's easier to put in bub's mouth. I found this website really useful too. I did see the Jack Newman info on thrush, although they seem to advocate the use of Gentian Violet which my chemist said they don't even keep anymore as it's been found to be carcinogenic (!)

Also found this page interesting, it's an interview with the author of the baby whisperer book and has some things to try with sleep/comforting baby etc.

Good idea about the hair band thing - I had one round my wrist at first but it was a bit too small, good idea about the bra strap idea WG. I'd love a fancy bra too Turnip - might treat myself for when I go back to work at the end of the month...

bisou sounds like you are well on the case. the ventian violet thing also sounds very messy!!

In case anyone takes it out of context and thinks I am a nutter (!!) talking about parents being discliplined my comment to WG by email was in relation to people (not on here obviously) saying that routine based parenting was parents trying to fit their babies in around their lifestyle, whereas my own experience is that doing a routine and committing to it does require discipline on the part of the parent and actually becomes very child-centred.

But WG if you are NOT doing a routine dear Lord you would be mad to sleep til 9 is bubs is asleep. The point in the routine is that hopefully, fairly quickly, your nights will have settled down so well to one or two feeds and then straight back down that it is no hardship to start your day at 7am (does that make sense?)

Right enough of me and my routines. the main thing is to enjoy your baby and do whatever works for you and your family.

sorry mad NOT to sleep til 9am!!

Bisou thanks for those links, esp babywhisper one. Tracey Hogg used to have programmes on cable all about her methods (which I loved - in fact they were on same channel as Justine who set up MumsNets own programme about parenting tips gleaned from here - and she seemed like such a lovely warm lady (unlike GF!). She died shortly after I had DD1 and around the time of my own Mum and I found that so sad as she had two daughters in their early twenties. But the books and brand keep going - and I don't even think the book mentions that she is no longer alive.

Turnip I had been wondering about Tracey Hogg, I have seen a few of her programs on Sky. But I saw a new book of hers and thought she was still alive.

DS2 has only been waking once a night for the past few nights.(sorry to people who are having hard times) But I am a bit worried this isn't enough. DS1 was also a very good sleeper but I am sure he didn't go down to 1 feed a night until about 6 weeks. Should he be feeding more or should I just stop worrying and enjoy the sleep?

Hope everyone is ok.

Turnip - thanks for the GF stuff. What age child are those timings for? Phoebe is 4 weeks and tends to stay awake for a bit after a feed but it's rarely for more than 30 minutes, so am not sure how i'd keep her awake so long until 'nap' time. These would fit well with school drop off and pick up times, and we get up with dd1 at 7am and put her to bed at 6.30pm so would suit us. Will give it a try!

Kayz - I imagine if Dylan is gaining weight and weeing and pooing well, then there's no problem with only waking once. I guess if his weight was dropping on the charts then maybe he might need prodding to feed, but otherwise I'd enjoy the rest! you deserve it! How did it go giving him just BF? Have you made any decisions about what you're going to do re BF/FF?

Hello, am typing one handed again so excuse even more mistakes than usual.

Kayz - when you say DS2 wakes once do you mean once between 7pm and 7am or once between 10ish and 7am? We have had a few nights (incl last night) when dd2 has fed at 10pm, slept to 2/3am , and then slept to 6.30ish. If that is what you mean then i think that is fine for our big babies.

Trace - glad you had such a good day yesterday. I hope today has been a good one too.

Bisou - lovely to hear from you. Sorry about the thrush but it sounds like you are doing fabulously. I am so jealous of you in the hot weather. DD1 was a summer baby and it is so nice and relaxing to be able to spend time outside with a newborn.

Major - I sympathise about putting your maternity stuff away (but am jealous that you are not still having to wear it - I am nowhere near fitting into my pre-preg clothes). I am strangely broody at the moment despite having been convinced I would never want to be pregnant again.

Cat - I hope the colic is improving.

LadyT and Veggie - There is a thread about The Great Gatsby in the adult fiction section. The OP, and most posters, hate it, so I tried to defend it. I am embarking on my first novel since giving birth. Its called The Yacoubian Building and seems good but I only ever get to read a page at a time which makes it hard to get absorbed.

Turnip - Lucky you getting babies into GF without controlled crying. I tried with DD1 and it was a nightmare as she just would not settle at the right times and hated sleeping in her cot in the day. However, I am tempted to try again with DD2 as she seems more chilled and more prone to sleep. I hope she takes after your DCs! My other fear about GF is it traps you in the house alot as she says the naps should be in bed. I can't stand being trapped in the house or held to a rigid timetable... hmmmm.

My news is that I successfully expressed for the first time ever today. 120ml with no pain. I made it work by expressing while DD2 fed from the other breast. DH will try her on a bottle tonight. If it works I am going to try to give her a bottle of EBM everyday so that she gets used to a bottle and I will then have the freedom to go out for the evening every once in a while. Wish us luck.

My bigger news is that DH has been offered a job for a year in the US. It is very tempting to have a bit of an adventure abroad before the DDs start school, but I am torn as I am so settled here with all my friends etc. Ohhhhh, i just don't know.

He is still having formula but now he doesn't take as much as he was midweek. He seems to be on the breast for longer too.

He normally has a feed about 11 and then wakes once between 11 and 7/8. So similar to your dd2 Arti

I'd look into going to the US Arti. It sounds great.

Trace Glad you had a good day. I am hoping to get Dylan down to maybe 1 formula feed a day, just before bed.

Ooh how exciting arti whereabouts in the US?

Kayz that seems fine its what L does feed around 10.30ish then wakes bt 3 & 4 then sleeps till 7.

arti if it helps, I never adhered to the midday nap in nursery thing with Gina. I often use that time to be out and about with baby in the buggy. Otherwise would go crackers! I have always said I do "Gina-lite" ie don't do all the expressing she recommends, go out and about during the nap times, don't always bath them at 5.35 just have some up and about time and have baby in her moses rather than big cot. For me, if I followed the sleep, awake and eating times, it all seemed to have the same effect (but could just suit my offspring!).

Wow the US?! Whereabouts?

Well done you on expressing 120ml! Wow! and you said you weren't able to get much before? That inspires me...What pump are you using. I always worry if I pumped a lot next time babe needed that breast there would be a shortfall??

Kayz I think you have discovered the benefit of a bigger baby/bigger tum! My Ds only woke once during the night (ie the 12 to 7am slot) from about 3 weeks and he was a ten pounder. I think the only issue you may want to consider is rousing him to give an extra feed and making it exclusively breast just to up your supply etc (as I think you mentioned the LL woman said). But that is only if you want to try and get back onto exc. bf. Frankly, he sounds very happy and satisfied and in any event he may not actually feed if you rouse him. I tried to feed DD last night at 4am (mainly because I woke from a dream and thought she had been crying....and she just resolutely kept her lips pursed and would not take the breast. Again, a bigger baby so probably able to go that bit longer in the night.) HTH.

Trace the routine I outlined is for a 2 week old. The book has the 4 week old routine. I agree tis hard to get them to stay awake for the time listed - I use nappy change, tickles, bouncing, top and tailing etc.(the things I think Bisou lists in her post below) BUt normally when they start to sleep for longer periods at night, they will then be able to stay awake for the times described.

Hi all,
Have a headache today - think it's cause I'm cutting out coffee of an evening in case it is affecting him sleeping??

where in the US arti I lived there for ages - can't say i'd want to again, but as you say - before the dc are at school age would be the time to go if you do. If you decided to go, i'll see if it's anywhere i've lived over there and perhaps i have friends there you could meet!

Well I'm getting worried about DS not sleeping in his cot - he's 4 and a half weeks and only settles after feeding on me and then i fall asleep and wake up in a panic cause he's in the bed with us sound asleep! then he hates to be taken out of the bed! Should i just let him cry it out for a bit in the cot?

maybe "Gina-lite" will work for me too . it sounds perfect. however, dd currently sleeps wayyyyy too much for gina. she is 3.5 weeks so i thought she may have woken up more by now.

do you guys think this is too much sleep for 3.5 weeks (it is a snapshot of the last 24 hours:
5-7pm - sleep
8.30pm-9.15pm sleep
10pm - 2am - sleep
2.45am-6.30am - sleep
10.30am-2pm - sleep
2.30pm-now sleep
that is nearly 17 hours of sleep!

going to try and take photos tonight or tomorrow for passports - Penny if you're lurking - how long did you say the citizenship application takes? the website says a "few weeks" but i'm sure you said you had the certificate back already?

The potential US move is to Stanford University i.e. Palo Alto, California. The weird conincidence is that I lived there before. Right there in the same town. I moved there with my Mum when she married an American when I was 16. I lived there until I was 18 so I know it and have a couple of people I am still in touch with in the area.