Aug 2021 - half way there!

[HopefulB]

@wimbler - EDD 29 July, surprise 💛
@Champson - EDD 22 August (but really June/July), TBC 💖💖💖
@coffeeandrainbows1- EDD 4 August (but most likely July), Boy 💙
@Jessicapebbles - EDD 5 August (but having C-section at 39 weeks, so really July), Girl 💖
@Smurf123 - EDD 5 August (but likely to be July) 💛
@WhatEvenIsSleep - EDD 2 August, Boy 💙
@Smushty14 - EDD 6 August, TBC 💛
@Rattyclife - EDD 6 August, TBC 💛
@Dia12 - EDD 8 August, Girl 💖
@Biscuitcat - EDD 10 August, surprise 💛
@ElonaWise - EDD 11 August, TBC 💛
@Runnergirl123 - EDD 11 August, TBC 💛
@PurplePansy05 - EDD 12 August, Boy 💙
@Srtdr - EDD 12 August, surprise 💛
@Daffodil21 - EDD 12 August, Boy 💙
@Inmypjsagain - EDD ???, Boy 💙
@BananaHammock23 - EDD 13 August, surprise 💛
@MrsB2019x - EDD 13 August, Girl 💖
@Magik01 - EDD 13 August, Boy 💙
@Carefree1 - EDD 15 August, Girl 💖
@DressyGerbera - EDD 15 August, surprise 💛
@lucyrp - EDD 16 August, undecided 💛
@BertieBotts - EDD 16 August, want to know! 💛
@WolfMother326 - EDD 17 August, surprise 💛
@Caz1226 - EDD 17 August, Boy 💙
@Lille4 - EDD 17 August, TBC 💛
@Redskinsucks - EDD 17 August, TBC 💛
@RockyRockyRoad - EDD 18 August, can't wait to find out 💛
@Smallbean27 - EDD 19 August, surprise 💛
@WatermelonKisses - EDD 20 August, surprise 💛
@Alittlexmasmagic - EDD 22 August, surprise 💛
@Millymay13 - EDD 22 August, TBC 💛
@Whatshouldbemyusername - EDD 22 August, surprise 💛
@LottSE20 - EDD 22 August, TBC 💛
@Notinthestarsigns - EDD 23 August, TBC 💛
@LaceyMermaid - EDD 24 August, TBC 💛
@Fran919 - EDD 25 August, surprise 💛
@northernsquirrel - EDD 26 August, surprise 💛
@LyraShaeLilly - EDD 27 August, can't wait to find out 💛
@ame88 - EDD 28 August, TBC 💛
@diamante11 - EDD 29 August, Girl 💖
@HopefulB - EDD 29 August, TBC 💛
@CountryGirl84 - EDD 29 August, TBC 💛

@LyraShaeLilly I was at uni from 2007-2010 so think I have this type of loan - I don't think I paid anything whilst on mat leave. it should automatically be calculated by payroll and by PAYE. I work on commission and the amount I pay differs each month based on what I earn so I'm pretty sure it's the same on Mat leave. I only received SMP and in the first 6 weeks when I was on 90% of pay I did pay some but it tailed off as my SMP reduced.

@HopefulB I've got all my AL to use as well. I can only carry over 5 days but I don't think i'm going to return to my work after mat leave anyway. I work part time and worked out that I can finish mid June. I'll probably be bored stiff but also so ready to be done with this job. It's not been easy since I returned from mat leave last time - they made life difficult for me so I'll be glad to be gone!

I haven't posted in a little while, been really busy planning house move etc. Hope everyone is well 😊
I'm probably worrying over nothing but suddenly realised I haven't felt any movements since yesterday (21 weeks, first baby) and I'm not guzzling gaviscon half as much. Can anyone else relate or have any words of wisdom? Work in nhs and don't really want to bother midwife if it's nothing x

@northernsquirrel I have days where I barely feel anything and others where she's having a rave. I find if I'm busy I'm less likely to notice movement. I'm 24 and a bit weeks just now.

Have you tried that thing where you lie on your left and drink cold water? If you're worried its always best to call I'd say.

How's the house move coming?

@Ready2020 thanks for your reply, that was reassuring 😊 I'm just going to try that trick now! I ended up ringing maternity advice line and they reassured me too.

I've been busy atm, going to rent my house out and move in with my partner so lots of jobs to do and boring stuff to arrange! I'm getting there though thanks. Hope you are keeping well x

@northernsquirrel if you’ve been feeling regular movement and now not so much, I’d contact your midwife. Best to it checked out unnecessarily than the other way around IMO!

@Daffodil21 I’d have thought a building site would be worse!!!! Any news from the boss? Hope review goes okay today x

Can I please ask your input ladies? Work has emailed about a return to office In the next few weeks and I’m trying to figure out my thoughts.

I work in an office in London, it’s an open plan office with 30 people, most of whom commute via train or bus (if we go back to the office full time I will also be taking the tube 3 times a week and a lift twice a week). We are in a building that houses other companies, so have communal kitchens and loos with probably at least about 200 people (depending how many companies bring their staff back full time). We have a communal AC and heating system and are unable to open the windows in the office.

In my bank of desks, within 2m I am seated by 5 people- we can’t move desks 2m apart as there wouldn’t be enough space for everyone. Management have put cardboard screens up in between the desks themselves, but it’s not a cubicle- just a big piece of cardboard between my desk and my neighbours. We also have signs saying please social distance, anti bac hand gel and spray. The communal areas have no cleaning equipment(ie no sprays to wash down the kitchen after you’ve used it etc so when I’ve gone in I’ve brought my lens stuff with me). The team are lovely but no one washes anything down, printers etc (except me and I’ve been laughed at for it!) I will also be expected to see clients face to face, I can often spend 2/3hours with them. The meeting rooms are small, we would probably be just under 2m away from each other, no windows just AC. We’ve been doing meetings remotely for now via zoom or telephone call.

I have been attending the office every 2 weeks or so to deal with admin and there’s usually 1 or 2 of the team in. I’m usually there for 2/3 hours before going home.

I asked whether I could continue to wfh (like I have since last March) with the 28 week guidance but HR said all covid restrictions will be lifted by 21st June, including the guidance for those in their third trimester (which is still 5 weeks away for me anyway). I have concerns about going in, considering the third trimester is highest risk, but I don’t know if that is unreasonable of me? Will cases be that low that the risk is minimal? (I am conscious that a local borough is surge testing for the SA variant) I’m trying to use my annual leave so that I am off from 1st July, so potentially may not impact me for too long, but I need management approval to take more than 10 days annual leave at a time, so might not be allowed. I have been so cautious this whole pandemic and I get really worried at the thought of that all going out the window just when the risk grows.... my husband doesn’t think I’m being unreasonable but then he’s bias! I’m really trying to be objective so worry I’m overreacting.

Sorry, that was long 😒

Oh wow I’ve just scrolled and that was even longer than I thought!!! Sorry 😕

@northernsquirrel glad you spoke the maternity advice line 😊

@Inmypjsagain I don’t think your being unreasonable at all. How do your HR know that all restrictions including that of pregnant ladies will be lifted at the same time? To me they are just making an assumption there! For one, the government guidance literally says “ Stage four (no earlier than 21 June)” so how they say covid restrictions will be lifted by 21st June is beyond me.

I’m not exactly sure how many weeks you are so excuse me, by I’m assuming your 28 weeks before June anyway. So surely you should be wfh from 28 weeks then when/if the guidelines changed they can discuss it with you then?

@inmypjsagain that sounds like a stressful and unsuitable working environment. Do you have a HR department you can contact to discuss? Is there such a thing as a maternity risk assessment at your workplace? x

@Magik01 thank you for your time reading that and your input! So I am 28 weeks on 18th May- HR have said that I am able to attend the office after this point and before 21st June because social distancing is still in place (they haven’t confirmed what capacity the office will be pre June 21st- if it’s limited I’m happy, because I presume it means it won’t be full time? Would need them to confirm)

Agreed they are assuming the position on the guidance changing- the email from management said something like we’re on track to have all covid restrictions lifted by 21st June- HR have interpreted that as all guidelines will be lifted including the 28 week re. When shielding was paused in august last year they didn’t let any staff rely on it even if they had been shielding for several months before and we were back at full capacity last august until the guidance changed again. My boss is supportive but I feel he knows he can say all the right things to me because he knows ultimately, HR will overrule him. Thanks again!

@northernsquirrel thank you! I’ve been in contact with HR about it, they’re the ones who are behind the plan but it was communicated by the management team. I haven’t had a maternity assessment which I wasn’t going to push for but will now insist upon. thing is, if come June 21st they do another risk assessment without taking covid into account, I imagine Itll be low risk as (id assume anyway?) most office jobs are.. I don’t do heavy lifting and I’m not on my feet all day- it’s more the client contact that would need to be reviewed but without COVID what would they say my risk? Thank you again

@Inmypjsagain You absolutely need a risk assessment before any return to the office which will have to include covid risks. Based on what you've described, your exposure will likely be considered risky and as such they won't be able to force you to attend - instead, this should be wfh or fully paid suspension if you cannot wfh. They have to risk assess you prior to returning because your work environment would be changing.

Secondly, throw RCOG guidance at them.

Thirdly, agree with @Magik01 on all points.

I somehow suspected employers would become dicks before we all give birth, it was too good to be true that they were mostly reasonably sesnsible before xx

@Inmypjsagain it’s a tough one isn’t it. We turn 28 weeks in the same week as well! I would perhaps email your HR dept and your manager and just express your concerns regarding the shared facilities in your office building and travelling too and from work. I would throw in some quotes from the official gov guild lines from:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-advice-for-pregnant-employees/coronavirus-covid-19-advice-for-pregnant-employees

If you have been wfh effectively and efficiently for some time I don’t see why you should feel forced to return to work in an office where social distances isn’t always upheld eg the small meeting rooms. Another point perhaps to make is the fresh air point the government are making and the fact no Windows can be opened in the office. I would also certainly ask for a risk assessment regarding covid before you return to the office full time- as per what the guild lines also suggest. I think if you just state the facts from official documents then they can’t really argue can they?

It’s so frustrating seeing all these companies being total arses about the current situation and pregnant women.

@Inmypjsagain if you're not happy with it absolutely push to continue wfh. I imagine you've doing it for long enough without any issues so how can they ask you to put yourself at risk when everyone else goes back to work. I've never worked for a company big enough to have an HR department, I hope they're supportive of you. There is lots of advice for pregnant women online, a lot of links are very helpfully above. Could you also speak to your GP or midwife?

Well, my boss called this morning. He wants me to consider taking back my resignation. It sounded to me like he's had legal advice and is sh*tting his pants a bit. He's also since offered me gardening leave. I've got someone calling me back from the legal department of my house insurance company (thanks whoever suggested that, I'm sorry I can't remember). So if if can take gardening leave without it affecting my maternity then that is what I'll do. I know he's essentially 'paying me off' to keep my quiet, but my goal was to have as little stress as possible in the rest of his pregnancy, and gardening leave followed by early maternity achieves that. He was very contradictory on the phone and definitely arse covering too.

I'm actually not sure if my review is going ahead. He was saying 'we were going to discuss xyz in your review' so I'm not sure if he's doing one or not! I'm just going to click the zoom link and see if he's there. The phone call ended with him saying 'do you want me to leave you to sort yourself out' because by this point I unfortunately had started crying 🙈 but up until that point I was actually pretty pleased with myself for sticking up for myself!

@Daffodil21 he probably has realised that if you did take it further he wouldn’t stand a bloody chance! I would imagine gardening leave wouldn’t affect your maternity pay if it’s the same pay as what your getting now. In my work if I do have to have suspended pay from 28 weeks they have said it will be full pay so it will have no affect on my SMP as it’s based on how much you’ve earned within a certain period. I’m a little hazey on the details though.

@Daffodil21 My understanding is that ‘gardening leave’ is essentially suspension on full pay, so he’s effectively admitted he can’t meet requirements to keep you safe, and now realises you may file For constructive dismissal. I’d settle for that - as you say keep the stress down!

@Inmypjsagain, no idea where your HR dept have the idea RCOG guidance will change- clearly they feel they’re ahead of the midwife I asked who said her understanding was it was unlikely to change! I don’t see why it would change - the evidence base still shows that covid risk is greatest to you in the 3rd trimester, and pregnancy guidance has always been separate to the ‘vulnerable group’. We are not in the same position as clinically vulnerable people have had the option to be fully vaccinated. So I’d just let them ride that one out and be fairly confident the guidance isn’t going to change! Pre 28 weeks if you go back the workplace risk assessment they should have updated for all staff should be shared with you. This should
Detail measures taken to reduce risk, which may include, hand sanitiser provision, a regular Cleaning schedule, provision of appropriate wipes to Clean desk spaces/ common touch points, mask wearing, spacing of desks, posters detailing max safe number of people in a room, installation of screens, improved ventilation, Rota’d breaks to reduce people in rest areas at the same time (rest areas are a particular concern as people remove masks - personally I’d aim to eat lunch/take breaks outside if at all possible)

Hang on @Daffodil21. Gardening leave in order to be applied needs to be agreed in your contract - what does your contract say on this?

It is usually deployed once an employee resigns but they do not wish that person to come to the office for some reason, or that person doesn't wish to do so. This is often an alternative to payment in lieu of notice.

You need to clarify with him what he's on about. They either accept your resignation and put you on garden leave OR they do not accept it/you take it back and they suspend you on full pay until your mat leave starts- which is what should be happening.

I guarantee to to you he had advice on this but it sounds like he's still bumbling things up. Get some clarity and stand firm girl! Also he HAS to review you regardless. What a plonker. xx

@Daffodil21:

www.acas.org.uk/dismissals/notice-periods-and-pay

Don't let them screw you over - you have a case against them and "gardening leave" won't save their arse now, they're trying to wrap this up nicely for you as if they were doing you a favour. xx

And just to add, your garden leave would be as long as your notice presumably whereas a suspension should absolutely take you to the date when you actually wanted to start your mat leave. Bastards trying to save more money on you. Sorry it winds me up so much when people are trying to mug others off! xx

@PurplePansy05 my contract has lots of holes in it in general - eg it says 'refer to section x in handbook for x) but then when you look in the staff handbook there isn't anything. Nothing is mentioned about gardening leave at all.

So he hasn't said I have to take it. He has carefully worded his email to sum up our phone call (gardening leave was not mentioned on the phone). In the email he asked me to consider taking back my resignation, but if I still decide to go ahead with it they would like me work my notice period, but they understand I may not wish to do this so they are willing to offer me gardening leave.

On one hand I want to take it just to be shot of all the shit, and on the other, the more I think about it, I don't think he should get away with it.

I'll see what the legal advice team say when they call back either today or Monday. It's a proper legal company who specialise in employment law/dismissal etc so I think they'll be able to definitely advise.

I've got copies of the email exchange, and notes from our phone call this morning

@PurplePansy05 plonker is one word for it!!!!!!

@Daffodil21 I was head of HR in previous life before I requalified and I would not stand for this sort of nonsense and wouldn't let company bosses put staff through it. That's one of the reasons I left, a lot of unreasonable demands to deal with which takes its toll after a while. So I have a lot of sympathy for you. Like I said I'm in a different field now, but certain principles haven't changed and he can't just push you around like that. You're absolutely right, speak to your insurer and get an employment solicitor to advise. It 100% looks to me like they've been advised of the risks of legal proceedings and are now trying to smooth it over, but also save money, which is what winds me up because the only person worse off at the end of this is you. xx

Can I share something with you to lighten the mood a bit:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4220632-To-ask-for-your-terrible-parenting-stories

This is hands down one of the best threads I've ever seen on MN. Perfect for a Friday afternoon 🤣❤ xx

@PurplePansy05 I did wonder what you did for a job! It certainly seems like you know your stuff! Thank you so much, and everyone else too! I'll update after I've spoken to legal advice.

Sorry, always seems to be me bringing the mood down 😂 hope everyone is doing ok and it's as sunny for you as it is all the way up here! I'll definitely be reading that thread!

@Daffodil21 You're most definitely not. I'm glad you talked about this, too often things like this are not discussed and this is why employers get away with way too much.

We all go through tough things and they're even tougher now when we're pregnant. Where else would you share it if not amongst your closest friends and other women in the same boat? It takes a village, remember 💐

That thread is hysterical. The bin story will never leave me throughout my motherhood! xx