The rainbow cave - where we can remember our angels and pray for our rainbow.

[3littlebadgers]

Hello ladies, the other thread was full, so welcome to the rainbow cave. A place where we can hide away together as we remember our beautiful angel babies, and pray for our tiny rainbows.

Introducing myself and my babies for anyone new,

Name: 3littlebadgers
Angel: DD2, Azra stillborn at 40+5 March 2015
Rainbow: badger boy currently 36+1
Other DCs: ds1, ds2, dd1

earth I think being more aware of movements certainly helps. I'm always reading the good news stories that Kicks Count put on their Facebook page!

owl do you know of this baby is a boy or a girl? It's a cliche but girls are often a bit smaller. I do understand why it would make you feel a bit uneasy though.

earth no apologies needed! Cake we don't know, we suspect a girl but we are keeping it a surprise.

Owlina I think it's totally understandable to be worried by similarities between this pregnancy and the one with your daughter who died. I felt much more worried in my second rainbow pregnancy and one of the reasons was similarity in movement pattern early on. My first rainbow was completely different and was super active which was very reassuring at the time but then meant I worried more the next time when it wasn't like that.

Had my anomaly scan yesterday. The run up to it felt very stressful but everything looked fine which I am very relieved about!

That's great BWP so pleased for you. Mine isn't for another 3 weeks and I'm already starting to feel a bit anxious

Hi everyone, how are you all doing?
I had a private scan yesterday and we found out that this baby is a girl. I am relieved and happy that baby is healthy but I have such conflicting emotions over the sex. I don't really know how I feel but I'm going to try and regurgitate it all here if that's ok.

I feel sad that I won't get to have my two boys. This is completely irrational, as even if this baby was a boy F would still be missing and then of course I should have had 3 boys.
I already feel scared/jealous of people who have got, or might have, 2 boys. I already have a strained relationship with SIL over how she behaved when her son was born so goodness only knows how I would cope if she has another boy. She isn't even pregnant so this is another worry that is a waste of time.
I'm worried that I don't know how to be a mum to a girl, again, silly because babies are babies and then it all just falls into place anyway.
I was worried that DS1 would be a boy and I wouldn't know how to be a mum to a boy-the parallel feelings are scary, I don't like there to be any similarities between pregnancies as it makes me feel like this baby might die.
I've been worried since pre conception of the impact another baby would have on DS2, he is he centre of my world and I don't want anything to be detrimental/negative for him. I'm worried that DS2 and this baby might not be so close due to different sex and as they get older different interests etc. Again, probably stupid, boys can be completely different and not get on anyway.

Anyway, there it is. I can rationally explain away the feelings, but the feelings are still there. I cried when we found out, and it's not because I'm disappointed, I'm really not, a healthy baby is all I want, it's just, well, complicated isn't it? Has anyone else had these feelings? I don't like them one bit, but I'm hoping that by acknowledging them and "letting" myself feel them then they will fade/move on in their own time.

Oh and I'm dreading the "how lovely, you'll have one of each" comments. Of which the sonographer yesterday was the first one.

Hi Cake -

I ABSOLUTELY understand. We really wanted to have a girl. We lost a girl and I want a girl to replace her. YES. I know this is not possible. I know that I will never be able to replace her and being pregnant does not take away any of the feelings I have about loosing Sophie. But yes, irrationally I want to replace her. I want another girl. I want my life to go back to what it was. I have admitted these feelings to no one else but my husband (who feels the same) and the therapist (who didn't flinch when I said this). We went for our 20 week scan a few weeks ago and had 2 scans. I didn't want the sonographer to tell us the gender because they had not been particularly sensitive at the 12 week scan. So I'd asked for the woman doing the cardiac scan (the 2nd scan) to tell us. During the first scan I was convinced, CONVINCED, I'd seen a little penis (though I know nothing about these things or what it would look like). I cried during the scan but my husband and the sonographer thought it was just the emotion of the scan. When we came out of the room, I got very upset and shouted to my husband about us having a boy. I felt DEVASTATED. It's irrational, all the more so when what we really want is a child who won't die before their time. At the second scan, we asked the gender and she told us I was wrong, we were having a girl (I hope this doesn't upset you). I cried again. I couldn't believe we were having a girl and I was so so so happy, irrationally so, again. I know.

I was talking to a friend about being pregnant generally and how complicated it all felt. She has 3 kids and said to me... it's always hard when you're pregnant with the subsequent ones, you can only imagine them to be like your previous children. And having a child of a different gender makes it all the more complicated. You can't imagine what that would be like other than that child being NOT your previous one. I know you have another child so things might be different for you, but this really helped me to accept my feelings. And of course, I realise that, all going well, the minute this child is born, she will be completely different to Sophie and will surprise me every day... This child I'm carrying isn't real in a sense and all I can imagine and see is Sophie. Implicitly, my friend told me this was ok. After we found out we were having a girl, I went online to buy something, an item of clothing. The first thing I picked out (perfectly justified to myself of course) was a little girl's dress for an 18month old. Exactly the age Sophie died. You won't need a degree in psychology to figure that one out. Acknowledging and working through my feelings has allowed me to explore and understand them and ultimately to grieve Sophie's less more and in different ways... In the context of being pregnant, I suppose this is all the more important and predictable.

We haven't told anyone the sex of the baby (husband, therapist and hospital are the only ones to know) because people are annoying (yes, they mean well blablabla). I have lost count of the number of people saying "wouldn't it be nice if you had a boy / girl because xyz". I don't want people's opinions because they don't know what they're talking about and it's hurtful. If you are able to keep it to yourselves it might give you more time to work through your feelings without anyone else butting in.

I understand some of how you feel, I don't want to give you advice you don't want or need, so do feel free to ignore any of the above. But I get it. I don't know how we come to terms with these things.... but with time we do (boring, I know).

Thinking of you xo

Thank you figs it helps to know I'm not alone in these complicated and uncomfortable feelings. It's also really interesting to hear your friends point of view when she doesn't have the complicated factor of grief thrown into the mix. Perhaps this is all "normal" in a sense. We haven't told anyone the sex of this baby and we won't, either until the birth or slightly earlier if we both feel comfortable with it.

I think you are right about this baby being different to Sophie when she arrives. My DS2 was so different in looks to DS1 when he was born and his personality is the polar opposite to how I imagined DS1 would be, he is very much his own person. But of course, it's very hard to imagine that when the only reference point you have is your first child. I imagine it will be even more difficult for you as Sophie at 18months most definitely had her own personality, and not just one you had imagined for her.

Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts and feelings, it has really helped.

Cake, I think your feelings are totally understandable. I had one girl already before losing one and I felt like if I then had another girl it would mean that I would appear as a mum of girls (plural) to everyone else instead of just to myself whereas if I had a boy then the reality of me being a mum of girls would be unseen and unrecognised by others. I know from talking to other mums who have lost children that it is quite common for people to find the idea of the next baby being a particular gender difficult. I actually deliberately didn't find out in advance as I knew that once the baby was born I'd be so relieved it was alive that I wouldn't be so concerned about gender and my friend who did find out and worried said that once her baby was born and had his own identity she felt fine about his gender. Although I didn't find out it was still something I worried about a lot during pregnancy but then when she was born I didn't even think to check what she was for ten minutes!

Hello ladies, I hope you don't mind me checking back in to see how you are all doing. My little rainbow badger boy is 4 1/2 months old now.

I think the feelings about gender are common. I know they were for me. My angel Azra was a little girl to join the boy, boy, girl mix I already had. We were thrilled but none so much as dd1 who was desperate for a little sister to share her room with.

When I was pregnant again I was certain that I was carrying another girl. I even bought her a pink blanket. At the scan when they said boy, I tried to look happy but my heart sunk. The next time I had a scan I checked again, just in case they got it wrong, they didn't.

Telling the children was a mix of emotions. Ds2 was overjoyed in contrast to dd1's upset and ds1 said he felt so sorry that dd1 will never get to have a little sister she can play with. I cuddled dd1 to sleep that night with tears in her eyes. The last words she said to me that night said what I had been feeling, but couldn't put my finger on "it is like losing Azra all over again." I felt stupid and ungreatful, I knew I wasn't losing her, she wasn't the child I was carrying, there was a little boy who deserved to be wanted and loved, I should be grateful and yet there I was grieving for two girls, the one I held for such a short time and one that never even existed.

I cried for all of those things my Dd1 would never get to share with a living sister, and I grieved all over again. I tried to imagine my tiny boy, and tried to fall in love with the idea of him being a boy.

Now I adore him and wouldn't change him, neither would dd1 or the boys. Holding him in my arms after his birth, all of those feelings faded away. My joy for him exists in harmony with my sadness for Azra. I am certain it will be the same for you too.
Take care of yourselves the time is passing as slowly as it feels

Wise words badgers and bwp thank you.
So glad to hear things are going well with your rainbow badgers and your DD1 sounds wise beyond her years.

I'm having a bad sad day... I lurk on other antenatal threads and people are talking about singing to their baby in utero... I can't imagine singing anything other than what I sang to Sophie when she was here. I do everything I can to put those songs and melodies out of my mind because they bring up so many painful feelings... the pain is so intense, it's physical. It brings back Sophie being a baby, and later when she was a toddler and would do the gestures to accompany songs, when she would ask us to sing the same song to her over and over again. And how she would laugh and sing to herself... I desperately want to replace her with this new child and I know I can't... yes, I know I can't. But it hurts so bad... and then I become very anxious about this new child. What if I can't love her? What if all I feel is pain when I look at her? What if it hurts too much to sing to and with her? What if her presence brings back daily pain and agony? And I wonder about the worst, what if this baby doesn't survive past 18months either? Some days I don't want another baby!

And there's pregnancy and talk of it everywhere around me these days (being pregnant you notice it much more I think). So many people I know are struggling to get pregnant, including my best friend and other bereaved parents I know. I feel for them it hurts me too. And then there are all those other pregnant people who want to share and chat. They know about Sophie and they are sensitive but no one can ever really be sensitive enough. They can't know that after a bit, too much pregnancy chat makes me sad because I can't just pretend that it's just another pregnancy. I am jealous of those announcing their first pregnancy on facebook to hundreds of emotional well wishers. I would never do this either way, I didn't with Sophie, I'm just not a facebook person. But I'm just jealous of their happy lives (though I know they have most likely been through other stuff....).

On my better days I am ok with all this. I accept it all as part of my new life. I meet people who have struggled to conceive, who struggle with depression, and we gently bond and I feel less alone in the world. I don't feel that my experience is so different to other people's struggles who may not have lost a child and I am grateful that I can share my pain with others who are sensitive because they have theirs... on these days I am also happy to share pregnancy joys and woes. But then some days are like today....

I hope you're all having a better day than me... xox

Oh figs it is so very hard my lovely. I wish I could tell you it would all be ok, that today is just a bad day and tomorrow will be better. I can't but I'm here with a hand to hold.

It is so very hard to be pregnant after loss, I found it heightened all of my emotions, because instead of just grieving, now I was grieving and anxious.
Please allow these emotions and if you can share them with anyone do. Do you have any counselling or anything, where you can talk openly, I know sometimes it is hard to talk to 'normal' happy people despite how supportive they might be.
Right up until baby badger boy's birth I was convinced I wouldn't be able to love him like Azra I was scared doing things with him would make Azra's loss all the more painful, but in reality I do feel stronger now. He gives me a reason to be strong. I love him and I love Azra, I can be happy for him and sad for Azra at the same time. Sometimes I do things for him and she is very much in my mind, but I try to think of it as my way of keeping her close and showing her that she is still just as loved and wanted.
I hope that helps my lovely

Hi everyone, mind if I join you? 3 little badgers sent me this way! DS1 was stillborn at 30 weeks on the 12/6/10. DS 2 was born 15 months later and with hindsight I can't really believe they were born so close together - it all seems a bit dreamlike. I'm currently 32+4 with DC 3 and have panicked my way through the pregnancy. No problems thus far but still terrified!

Lots of talk on here that I relate to at the moment. I'm sorry people are having such a hard time. I know I have ups and downs about everything, the joy of a new baby will always for us be mixed with the grief and shock of our losses.

We have decided not to find out the sex of this baby. I too have mixed feelings about what I want. Me and dh both would really like to have a girl, we have a son and would love to have a little girl this time. However, I don't want to know if it is a girl as i know I will worry much more as I lost my daughter. What if I'm no good at carrying girls? What if she looks like my first child? What if she doesn't? What if it's a boy? Will I mind never having a daughter to bring up? Will I not care once it's here what sex it is?

If i knew I was having a boy, I admit I would be a little disappointed, but my son is so fab, another little boy would really be great, they would hopefully get on and like the same stuff etc.

If I knew it was going to be a girl I think I would worry more tbh. Once it is here then it's too late to worry either way, all being well.

Although I'm sorry to find that others are having these feelings, it does make me feel a little better to know we are not the only ones with mixed emotions over the sex. Thinking of you all.

Oh welcome tomfuns. Sorry for your loss. I'm glad all is well so far.

Thank you Badgers and yes Owlina it is good to feel less alone.

Welcome tomfuns, I'm sorry to hear your pregnancy has been difficult...

I'm not feeling much better this week. I've started panicking about labour. I think I've written about this before a few pages ago. I'm going to seriously start looking into hypnobirthing stuff... we'll see how it goes.

The exhaustion really doesn't help with things...

Lots of love to everyone xo

Figs, I was the same, I googled like crazy just looking for answers of what it is like to give birth after a loss. I guess the answer is, because we are all different you'll never know.
Did your consultant mention at all if they are planning a vaginal delivery or C-section?
I was induced, and the process was a long one. I sort of knew it could be, but I didn't count on it being so lengthy. I was induced on Thursday evening and delivered just before 11am on Sunday. They didn't want to rush things but were sort of carried along by my anxiety which was spiralling out of control. If they are planning induction for you, please please be fully prepared for it to take a good few days. Anything else will be a bonus and you won't feel as frustrated because you will be ready for it. I wished so much they had been upfront about that aspect of it, I was unable to relax for the thought i might be in full labour at any second.
Throughout the induction the monitored badger boy very regularly and whenever I became anxious they gave me extra monitoring. Knowing that really helped.
The birth itself was, I guess normal physically. I strugguled with the pain a bit more maybe due to already being tired from the induction, maybe due to fear. But by the time I decided I couldn't carry on without an epidural it was too late. They popped the needle in and I decided to inform everyone in a 3 mile radius of the hospital that 'I need a poo!'
There was one particular part where I was leaning over the bed that really brought memories back of Azra's labour, and I cried quite heavily. In someways it was a release and I'm glad it happened. It was my moment to recognise and aknowledge her. I wondered if I'd sense her in the room, I guess spiritually, during the labour, but I didn't.

The actual birth birth bit, all of the bits I thought would be a trigger weren't. I was just so scared something bad would happen, and anxious to hear him cry, I kept asking them if he was ok, and when he was born the first thing I asked was 'is he alive?' He screamed and I cried. He weed on me, and I laughed. I felt truly happy, so relieved and beyond exhausted. When my placenta came away I lost a significant amount of blood, even though I could see the worry on the midwife, and my husband's faces. At that point I just didn't care.
All of the staff at the hospital were brilliant and tried their best to understand and be patient, and where I doubted they'd be able to understand I pretty much spelled it out for them to help them help me better.
If anyone has got any questions about my experience of labour after loss I am more than happy to answer them if I can, no matter how obscure. Anything if it might ease your minds a little and help you focus on you and your baby.

figs I was offered a planned section with my son and have been again this time. Longer recovery than the first birth but it was (probably) the birth that caused the issue for me, so consultant recommended a section both times.

Planned section is fine, worry free in many ways. I'm a bit more concerned this time as I'll have a toddler at home who won't take kindly to not being lifted, but hopefully dh will be able to help.

Thank you both for sharing...

My first labour with Sophie was very long and painful. I had contractions for days before I camped out in hospital and demanded they do something. They eventually induced me but the subsequent epidural didn't work and I was in a lot of pain on top of exhaustion (I hadn't slept or eaten in about 5 days)... I don't feel traumatised by my first labour though. I just know how very long and painful it can be. But when I broke my ankle last July, they had to pull it back in place and it was excruciating. They gave me gas & air which while fun for about 5seconds of relief and giggling turned me hysterical pretty quickly. What I am worried about is the intensity of the pain and not being able to control (manage) my emotions. I worry that the intensity of the pain combined with emotional pain will break me. I worry about getting flashbacks to Sophie's death which was very traumatic... A lot of stuff triggers me, being in hospital, all the medical equipment, the hospital beds, the machines, the beeping, the wires and perfusions and then all the stuff they use in emergencies... We are in therapy and the hospital are trying to support us in preparation for labour. I have thought about a section, but for some reason I can't really explain I would prefer a vaginal delivery. The more anxious I get and the more I realise the hospital can't actually do much, the more I think about a section though. But I do worry about how 'medicalised' it is and whether that wouldn't just trigger all the emotional stuff, though of course it would be minus the physical pain...

I wish I was more meditation minded... I am going to brave going back to pregnancy yoga this evening (I hope no one tries to chit chat to me before or after)! I want to see if I can get into the groove of it. I wouldn't mind trying hypnobirthing but I don't want to do it in a group with lots of first time mothers / parents. And I'm still not sure I could get my head around it enough to allow me to use it in labour. I feel so impatient and easily distracted I find it hard to go with the flow of my thoughts and breath and the other stuff they try and get you to do...

We still have a while to go though (I'm 25 weeks so there is time to prepare a bit more)....

I tried the hypno birthing but I was far too distracted. A few of the chants claiming birth to be natural with a good outcome gave me the rage! And as I turns out on the day I had so much going on in my mind I couldn't focus anyway.
The maternity psychologist said I was high risk for flashbacks during labour, I'd been having them, particularly at night time since Azra died, but I didn't have any during labour or since. I did have moments of remembering where I became sad but nothing like a flashback where you feel trapped in the moment. I hope it'll be the same for you too.
I guess you won't know what it will be like for you until it is over, but that is the thing, it will be over, one way or another you will get through it. I really hope and pray it is on the most lovely peaceful way

Hi Badgers you have no idea how reassuring it is to read your words. That you couldn't get on board with hypnobirthing, that you were at risk of having flashbacks and that it just didn't happen that way. I've been on a spiral of anxiety in the last few weeks and I've not been able to step out of it. But this really helps. I know I can't predict how it'll all go, but I've already made a few decisions (no gas and air for me), and I feel reassured that it can be ok, it is survivable.

Your words particularly help because I went back to pregnancy yoga yesterday and it was awful. This is a yoga class I'd been to when I was pregnant with Sophie and I followed on with baby yoga until Sophie was 6months old and I went back to work. The teacher knew me pregnant and knew Sophie well.

The teacher was welcoming enough but I was stressed and emotional and I wish she had tried a bit harder - we haven't seen each other since Sophie died. Then she did her usual 'circle': she goes around the group and asks everyone to introduce themselves, to say how far along they are and how they're feeling. I was next to her so I wish she had asked me if I'd like to start - sitting through 20 people talk about how amazing everything is going was excruciating. I thought about leaving so many times. Eventually, I resolved never ever to come back but that I was going to stick this class out. It's a neighbourhood class, so I don't want to stand out as different, I don't want people to look at me differently, I don't want to be that vulnerable pregnancy woman walking around my area (yes, some of this is paranoia). Anyway, I managed to mumble my name and how far along I was and say things were ok. Then she said, "oh and for people who can't sleep, well the other day I woke up really anxious, I don't know why, so what I did was list all the things I was grateful for and it really helped. So I recommend you all do this because we all have so so so much to be grateful for." So I stormed out crying (f*ck my neighbourhood!). I wanted to scream, I wanted her to know that I lie asleep at night unable to stop thinking about every last detail of Sophie's death. I am grateful for many things - loosing a child has made me feel even more grateful for all the things I do have, but I just couldn't cope with what she was saying. You'd think that a bloody yoga teacher would be more sensitive wouldn't you? There is no way I can be the only one in the group who is going through difficult stuff... what about people who have had difficult pregnancies, had had pregnancy losses, who have lost a family member, are depressed, or have a crap partner? And if everyone there really is very happy, then the class really isn't very welcoming to anyone going through a hard time... I was all the more annoyed because I wrote to her Tuesday telling her I was coming, telling her how anxious I was and asking if she could help with possible one to one classes. She never answered (but did see the email, she mentioned it to me) but now I really don't want anything to do with her. I know she has to look after 20 people in the class, but her complete lack of tact and sensitivity was awful and I just don't want to take any more risks with her.

So, Badgers - your words have reassured me that it - yoga, hypnobirthing - probably wouldn't even help me anyway. I was so upset when I left and so angry. And it made me feel so alone. I had thought I could go back to the class, that I would deal with the first time happy clappy pregnant people (I did and got all the questions), that I would just take what I needed and leave the rest. Turns out it was far worse than I had thought possible. So no more yoga for me. And out with the hypnobirthing too. Yesterday this made me feel devastated ("what am I going to dooooo? How am I going to cope? Why can no one / nothing help me?" I wailed to my husband last night). Today, I feel better and clearer.... still not quite sure how I am going to cope but I feel more confident that I can find a way and survive.

Thank you Badgers and thanks to the rest of you for being here. Having a space like this is so helpful... I was really worried last night that I would feel terribly depressed again today. But instead I feel defiant!

Thank you xo

Oh figs it sounds like it must have been very traumatic, but you were terribly brave to go in the first place. It is hard after a loss because we no longer fit into what people expect from a pregnant person, you get the odd person who knows exactly the right thing to say, you get quite a few who won't know what to say but kindly try anyway and then you get some, who you think would be good but completely ignore your child, the trauma you have lived through, and will do anything not to have to deal with it. I guess yoga woman was one such person. She should get together with ballet mum who would have me in tears regularly then squirm whenever I mentioned anything to do with Azra and they can live in blissful ignorance together.
Do you think it would help you visiting the labour ward before you go in? Who are you going to have with you on the day? Could you share your fears with them so they could keep an eye out for any signs of flashbacks, maybe they could try to bring you out of it by counting you down or stroking your hands or something.

Oh figs, I'm so sorry, what an appalling woman. You were so brave to go, I went with my first pg and really enjoyed it, but have not been able to face it with either of my rainbows. Too many people asking questions for me.

Could you try looking at some you tube yoga techniques or even a book of pg yoga if you want to do some of the active birth stuff this time?