June 2014: Thread 6! The 2nd trimester and Christmas shenanigans!

[GillyBillyWilly]

Boom!

bee may I ask you what are the German's guidelines regarding: seafood, ham and deli meats?

The portuguese guidelines are horrendous. I'm glad I'm not there, in that respect. They check if pregnant women are immune toxoplasmosis. If you aren't, you are not even allowed to eat fruit and veg that have been not properly disinfected (e.g. washed in water with vinegar)

My mum makes theeeee best homemade chicken liver paté oatcakes and boozy ginger wine. I feel I may be a little glum round the table this year. Dh and I have also been asked to a hogmany party (you know we take this very seriously North of the border) id be lucky to stay awake till midnight never mind suffer a room full of drunken revelers! Dh not aware yet but we will not be going!

liquid I actually found it hard to find lear guidelines because you basically get a list that says no fatty food, no salty food, no processed food, no caffeine, everything organic (pretty hardcore!) but once you dig around for what is actually banned it's pretty reasonable.

No unpasteurised cheese at all, not even hard cheese
Unwashed salad and uncooked bean sprouts
No baked goods with filling that contains egg as the filling might not be cooked properly
No alcohol
No freshly squeezed juice from counters/supermarkets
No dark chocolate or cocoa (), no regular tea, no coffee, no energy drinks
No liver in first trimester, no carpaccio or tartare, no parma ham or serrano, no salami (so no cured meats, I guess), no medium/rare meat
No raw fish, sushi, pickled herring, cold smoked fish
No stevia (oops, I've ignored that one), or saccharin
No raw/soft eggs, no food from 'open counters' (e.g. olives from the deli counter)

I think the NHS says cured ham and salami is ok so, again, I mix and match. All those guidelines also don't say 'total verboten', they all just say 'best to avoid'.

The risk of listeria worries me more than the vitamin A with pate - I know it's only a small risk but it can cause birth defects so one that rules it out for me. Much more relaxed about everything else though... rare steak (yum), runny eggs (yum) etc etc. Funny how we all perceive risk differently :)

I really crave milk when I'm pregnant and had gallons of milk and yoghurt when pg with DS. This time (as I've probably mentioned more than once.. moan moan moan) I have bronchitis and so a lot of mucus on my chest. I read that dairy makes it worse and it definitely seems to.. was wheezing big time after icecream so have reduced as much as possible. Apparently salt, sugar, fat and dairy make it worse. So I am really struggling with what to eat at the moment!! Especially with sickness. On the plus side, I think my trousers are slightly looser than they were when I fell pregnant which being a size 16-18 is no bad thing!

And all this food talk is making me very hungry too!

But nosey, I've made it myself, made sure it the livers were fully cooked and froze it in portions, so there is no risk of listeria there! Otherwise I wouldn't eat it, as you say, not worth it.

Sorry I was thinking in my own little bubble really.. as in, why I'll probably avoid pate at Christmas as it's so tempting not to.... Unless you'd like to send me some of your homemade liver pate it sounds delicious!

I also think all these are hugely personal.. I've been taking cough-mixture-contraband which is not recommended in pregnancy but having read up the risks they are worth it, for me, at this current moment. Was only saying about listeria because I think maybe some people think it's just because of the vitamin A?

All this talk of pate is not helping with the nice Christmas food avoidance!

Hmm, I'm rethinking the pate idea now- the listeria didn't bother me so much as the vitamin A precisely because the risk is very small, whereas the vit A will be there every time, but now I'm starting to wonder about how it's made, especially as I bought it in France and have no idea if the risk might be any different etc. I would say I'd make some myself but never have before so would probably poison myself and everyone else. Maybe I'll get everyone else to test it first and if they're ok I'll have some

I thought I had read salami was ok and and glad I didn't dream it as have some for my lunch today and it's so yummy I'd cry if I couldn't eat it!

nosey, I would in a heart beat but it probably doesn't travel well (cough, it also has a spoonful of cognac in it, cough - though I did let it bubble away on the stove for a while). I know what you mean and yeah, the listeria is the real worry.

I've been to two Christmas meals out where I avoided the pate because there's no way of knowing how it's been made and how long it has been standing around, grim.

BEE - also that list assumes you don't know anything about the food. For example you can eat sushi but not all, it depends how it has been prepared. I'm sure loads on that list is similar so it's easier to say avoid sushi than give lots of details about what makes each item dangerous.

oh no, as a first time parent i would prefer to do exactly what it says in the guidelines, i dont want to risk with anything, prefer to live in a cotton wool but be safe

I agree Nosey that it's personal choice - I put up with weeks of headaches because I didn't want to take any painkillers so early in pregnancy, but have been having runny eggs, cold meats and would have had a bit of brie a few weeks ago if DH hadn't guilt tripped me into avoiding it. Definitely a case of weighing up the risks (wish I could remember what was said in Expecting Better about it - have taken it back to the library now).

This talk of food is definitely not helping me not want pate OR concentrate on work - starving now!!

Plus avoiding listeria isn't just pate & washing fruit & veg you need to monitor temparature of fridge, ensure everything perishable refrigerated ASAP (or 2 hours max) & fridge has to be kept clean...
At end of day I do my best but we can't be perfect! :)

bumble I'm not big on fish or seafood so I've never looked into it but I know pregnant women who've eaten sushi and tbh I think my mom ate tons of pickled herring when she was pregnant with me. I find most lists, even the NHS ones or the ones the midwife talks to you about, very generic - it's just easier to say 'avoid that' than give more detailed information and rely on people to make informed choices.

E.g. I didn't know about Stilton before someone here pointed it out, I thought all blue cheese was a no no. I think personal risk, as nosey says, comes very much into it, and I'm happy to make some extra effort to avoid some risks (e.g. cooking and freezing my pate), whereas with other foods the risk is too big to me personally or I just don't perceive it as worth it.

Mylittle I meant the guidelines are to help you. Avoid sushi = safe but actually detailed medical guidelines are that certain sushi prepared a certain way (ie all sushi in supermarkets) is perfectly medically 'safe' but NHS want you safe and understand it's far easier for ppl to understand a list of don'ts than an essay around whether items are safe in certain ways. (Not that I eat sushi it's just the one I remember!)

Yeah exactly Bee - I don't like Stilton Brie etc so have no knowledge about them. I do know the exact amount we're 'allowed' to drink ;)

Riblet NHS says this about salami;

Some countries advise pregnant women not to eat cold meats (for example, salami, chorizo and parma ham) or smoked fish because of the risk that the food may contain listeria bacteria. In the UK, pregnant women are not advised to avoid these foods because the risk of infection is so low. However, if you’re concerned, you may choose to avoid them.

What a minefield it all is though!!

Yay finally back and caught up! Came back bursting with excitement after successful scan last Weds only to find that our phone line had gone dead.

BT have finally fixed the problem at the exchange so have phone and internet back, woohoo!

I am still pretty much on track for my EDD, it just shifted 1 day back to 18th June.

Does anyone else have insanely itchy boobs? I thought they had done most of their growing already but maybe I am wrong - how big can they possibly get?! After sun cooled in the fridge is the only thing that calms them down.

Sussex Congrats on your great scan!

My boobs are ok but I can really feel my tummy muscles going funny - I've also started having pelvic pain this week, I hope it's just stretching and not the beginnings of SPD.

Congratulations Sussex! I get the itching too - I use Bio oil - not sure if it makes a difference or not but at least feel like I'm doing something that might help

Congratulations Sussex good to hear it all went well!

Does anyone else feel like there isn't anything going on in there? I felt like I was really showing but not now. Rationally, I think this is probably because I was really bloated/constipated but you know... just wondering :)

My boobs are really itchy too, Sussex. But from my experience they get much, much bigger than now . Especially when your milk comes in!

The food guidelines annoy me to be honest. it's all about infantilising women and not treating them like they have a brain and can make their own risk assessments. For my part I am pretty relaxed about occasional bit of banned cheeses (risk of listeriosis from cheese so small that NO pregnant woment in this country have ever had a problem with it). I will eat rare meat as long as has been seared on outside e.g steak, roast beef but NOT burgers. Don't like pate or liver or sushi so happy to avoid. Will drink the occasional glass of alcohol once past the first trimester. Eat runny scrambled eggs, salami and palma ham. Makes life bearable. That said, a friend of mine DID lose a baby from Toxo. But she had followed all of the guidelines. Sometimes you just pick these bugs up from your environment.

After I had DD my Dad sent me a New Mums Cheese Box from Pong Cheese. It was full of all the stinky, runny cheeses that you're not supposed to eat when pregnant and was awesome. Made a nice change from all the bunches of flowers too! :)

Agree it's all common sense with the food guidelines. I got food poisoning in the summer from a pub meal of baked potato with tuna and salad. Pretty sure it was the salad, so I'm now very careful about washing fruit and veg. Having said that, I've never given myself food poisoning in all of my 34 years so I'm happy with my own standards of food hygiene so I'm just carrying on as normal. Runny eggs all the way!

Lady I am similar to you re: food choices. As long as individuals are happy that they know what the risks are, and make choices according to their own perception of those risks, all well and good. Personally, I'm avoiding most alcohol- but will have a glass of fizz on Xmas day and likely at a wedding we're going to on 27th, a glass here and there doesn't pose a risk in my mind. I won't actively seek out the other "banned" "items but won't lose sleep if I have a small amount of, say, Brie in a shop bought sandwich if it was the only one left on the shelf.

I feel worse about not being able to keep down any folic acid in the first 14 weeks :(