Graduated Elderberries. Thread 9

[Cavort]

The over 30's expecting or just had their first baby.

Funny, we were just thinking about winter holidays as well. I hate Dubai though. And not a fan of Egypt either, except for the snorkelling, but I don't think I'm brave enough for any longer flights and jetlag. V is usually fine on planes, but I'm not sure I could keep him amused for 11-12 hours.

Egypt wouldn't be my first choice either but in terms of DH only being able to take a week off and the time/travel difference from the UK, I can't think of anywhere else which will be as convenient and hot in Feb or March? I would love to head off to the Caribbean but I really can't face a really long flight and a week of E getting up for the day at 4am. We only want a week in the sun (possibly all inclusive so hopefully on a large complex and wouldn't need to venture out much) so wouldn't really matter where it is as long as we don't get attacked by extremists.

Thanks Alex - I think that is the problem, her latch is sometimes rubbish and I think she hasn't consistently been getting the hindmilk, hence the frequent feeding, the green poo and the gas. I have been trying to rectift it, this morning I put her back twice on the same boob for quite substantial feeds and lo and behold she has slept for 3 hrs solid. So maybe I just need to pay more attention to how much she is getting from the boob and make sure she's not spending 20 mins nibbling ineffectively whilst I MN

Cavort I lolled at your DTD story...about as sexy as mine.
How about Morocco for a holiday? Similar temperature and there are some lovely up-market riads...Essaouira is nice, although I guess it doesn't have the sea/snorkelling that Egypt has. I've got lots of friends who've been to Egypt recently and have had no trouble at all.

Janey how horrid! Everyone is ill! I can't imagine being ill in charge of a baby is any fun at all - not looking forward to that.

cavort I agree, I'd love to go to Thailand, but the flight and time difference..
And sure, for a week in the sun, a nice all inclusive resort is all that's needed.

If I would go, I'd probably choose this one:
www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Hotel_Review-g297557-d609811-Reviews-InterContinental_Taba_Heights-Taba_Red_Sea_and_Sinai.html
I love intercontinentals and can highly recommend their Ambassador membership card - you will get a free upgrade, often several categories up. Well worth it.

You should be able to get a hotel cheaper than that cavort? Although the madinat is bloody lovely to be fair. When knocked up I got a really good deal for the jumeirah zabeel saray half board which was lovely. Have also stayed in the one and only, desert palm (out in desert but taxis are so cheap it's fine) and the westin (with Alex!) and all have been absolutely lovely... And much cheaper than that - and in peak season (usually go out for the rugby sevens or the racing in march). If you fancied the desert, or in fact any hotel that's part of slh.com let me know (PM) as I can often get a really cheap deal through work.. I think it's £150 per room per night which is often a big discount.

If you fancy Egypt might be worth looking into El Gouna too. Is a million miles away in every way from the shithole busy resort of Hurghada.

I've just seen 'happiest baby on the block' recommended on a thread about babies crying and saw this when I googled, thought it was interesting (and liked how cringey Richard is on the clip):

m.youtube.com/watch?v=ddRkI5wVIqQ

I'm glad I've taken one for the team in terms of bringing a baby west and suffering with early wakings!!!! I def prefer Egypt to Morocco though!!! What about Tunisia? Should also be warm? Or even Turkey?

DH has booked Easter off work so we're debating what to do with that holiday - whether to go away or stay in the UK. We're going to Spain for two weeks in July but just need to decide what else we do this year.

A relative has asked me if S is settled into a routine yet. I am totally going with the flow at the moment, especially as she has such rough times being unsettled. When she's happy and napping, I hate the idea of waking her for her "routine" when she might kick off. Also if bf or rocking her to sleep is the only thing that gets her to sleep, usually on me during the day, I'll take that over crying right now. Just wondered what other people did or are doing with routines, and when? Also any advice on how to handle relatives when they make comments about what worked for them and what you should be doing - with all due respect, they had totally different babies so it's not fair to compare.

Totally right Alex, they are all so different. People with advice are generally well-meaning but simply smile and ignore. We have a loose routine here but only one which has evolved on its own. We have never tried to enforce a routine. I expect more of a routine to happen now weaning as meals will be at roughly the same time each day.

What about evenings/bedtime cav? How did you develop that part of the day?

We do baby-led routine. When baby is hungry, he is fed and when baby is sleepy, he is put to bed. He has developed his own loose routine, meal and nap-times are around the same times. But if they are not then I'm not waiting to feed him when he's obviously hungry but it's not feeding time yet, or trying to put a wide awake baby to bed.

Yeah, same as Hazle really, we watch for sleepy and hunger cues and respond. This has evolved into her napping 3 times per day which vary in duration from 30 mins to a couple of hours and bedtime is around 2 hours after she wakes from her third nap which is around 8pm at the moment. This has got gradually later recently as her awake time between naps gets gradually longer, so when she drops her third nap (when second nap starts ending after 4pm) we will move her bedtime forward to 6.30-7.00pm. We have a simple bedtime routine of bath, babygrow, feed, cuddles in a dark room then sleep, and we always get her dressed straight away and open curtains (even if it's dark) so she knows it's morning.

Ours is similar alex. I follow H'S cues re hunger and tiredness, and lets him feed and sleep when he needs/wants to. Bedtime is simply, bath, massage, babygrow, feed, cuddle, bed. We dont have routines re exact times of the above but rather routines of what happens etc so he knows what happens at nap time, bed time etc.

When V was tiny, we also did a night time routine (bath, pyjama etc) but he would then sleep downstairs in his hammock until we went upstairs ourselves. (alex this might be something to look into, a lot of reflux or coliky babies apparently like hammocks www.babyhammocks.com/Benefits-Features).

However, now that he is more aware and curious, we put him in his own bed upstairs, in pyjama, sleeping bag and in a dark room. He usually gets sleepy around 7-8 and it's really obvious when he's ready for bed - whiny, rubbing his eyes etc. And touch wood but we never had any trouble with his bedtime yet, he's asleep in a minute.

We've started giving S a tummy tub bath before bed but last night she was napping on DH at 10pm so we had to wake her up for her bath. I might try giving her the bath and little bed routine whenever she wakes up naturally during the evening instead of waking her for it. And when relatives ask about routine, I might just be vague to avoid getting into the whole "oh you should be doing this/rod for own back" thing!

Might be a rod, but it's my rod and I decide what to do with it. V wakes a lot to feed, every hour last night. So of course I've also been told that I should just stick him in his own room and let him cry for a few nights, he will soon learn. Believe me, I'm a very lazy and selfish person, but I cannot reasonably justify putting my own comfort above my baby's at this stage. So if he's hungry, he's fed, I am managing fine. And all "experts" can just sod off.

We have absolutely no routine over here aside from vague patterns that are developing from W's timings. We have barely managed any baths (!) because there never seems to be a good slot in the evening when she is not eating, sleeping or a bit grumpy! And we don't currently change her clothes before bed - she goes down in her babygro and gets a clean one in the morning - slovenly, but I can't see the point in changing her into a new outfit for bed when it will make her cross and wake her up. So at the moment she just goes into her cot after her late feed, but she seems to sleep fine. I keep wondering when/how we develop a bit more structure, but at the moment I'm happy to have it evolve naturally, as it means we are never trying to make her do something she doesn't want to do, and therefore I don't have to suffer much crying!

Quod, I like your thinking. I keep wondering if a bath every single day isn't overkill, but then I have no idea how dirty a baby will get over the course of the day.

I was told not to bath her more than about once every three days or it can dry their skin out. The way I see it you're constantly wet wiping the bits that actually get dirty, it's not like they're running around getting sweaty. Though the way I see it is probably coloured by the fact that she absolutely hates baths, I suppose I might feel differently if she enjoyed it!

V has dry skin so doc said no more than once a week. A shame really as he really loves his baths.

I just figure do what works for you and baby, there are certainly no eight and wrongs that I can see. I try to have H in seperates during the day now and change him into a fleecy babygrow at night, only bacause I'm trying to make day and night seem different to him. I want night to be calm, cosy and warm....so hopefully he sleeps thru! fat chance We bath him because he likes it and it helps tire him out/chill him out before bed, we do use moisturiser afterwards as his skin does get dry otherwise, I try to massage it in such a way that it frees up some downwards wind and makes him more comfy for bed. If he hated it we certainly wouldnt do it each night! It started mainly as he had cradlecap and we were shampooing each night to try and clear it up. Shame theres no manual for this mum malarky isnt it.

We had no routine at all for the first few weeks, lived in a blur of feeding and winding and changing nappies. I can't imagine how you'd introduce one so early on? I almost don't believe anyone who said that they had one - not that I'm calling your relatives liars or anything I guess it might be easier to have more of a routine when bottle feeding, but when breastfeeding a newborn? Would have been impossible for us for sure...

From about 8 weeks we started a routine for naps (still fed on demand) which had an immediate impact on his - and my - sleep. Obviously the 4 month sleep regression soon ruined that, but we kept his bedtime routine up (bath, massage, feed, cuddle - and now he's older he has a disco before the bath to tire him out!) and I honestly do think it's a good thing for us - he is put done at night wide awake and still knows how to self settle and quietly goes to sleep on his own. And fingers crossed we finally seem to have come out of the other end of the sleep regression, as for the last couple of weeks he's slept 7-7 with a feed at around 1.30am when he wakes briefly.

If he didn't like baths I'm sure it wouldn't be part of his routine, but he loves them. When he was teeny (0-8 weeks) we only used to bath him once or twice a week though.

Have stopped being sick now, thank goodness. I can honestly say that I don't think I've ever been as ill as I have so far this year - I never get bugs really but these two illnesses have wiped me out.

Talking of holiday, DP and I are starting to think about honeymoons. What should we do? Go for a short while just us two? Or for longer with M? Short haul? Long haul? In sept immediately after wedding, or later to get good weather? No idea what to do.....

The first question would probably be, with M or not. On the one hand, would probably be good for you as a couple to spend some time just the two of you. But not if you would miss M and worry about him the whole time. What do you think, would you be comfortable leaving him?

I think I could go away without him terrible mum but for a maximum of a week I reckon. But then would we want to? I will be back at work so time with M will be limited and so precious... But then so is time just the two of us! Maybe we could do 2-3 nights somewhere really top end in the uk just the two of us, then go away all three of us for a while?

2-3 nights somewhere in Southern Europe right after wedding? Italy?