Graduated Elderberries (thread 2)

[Cavort]

Oops, seems we ran out of room without noticing!

I've changed my mind, can I get another kitten instead? I'm glad he's here safely but that sounds bloody horrendous. For once I'm actually glad I've got a caveman OH who has spent many many years learning how to hurt people, I think he probably would pull some ninja shit on them until I got what I wanted if i was on pain and upset. He really doesn't like people upsetting me. It always seemed like a bit of an annoying trait before but perhaps it has its uses...

Crikey Cavort your poor sis but congrats to her and him and you on his (eventual) safe arrival.

That is a shocking situation though. And a little alarming tbh. Been using my sick time wisely by watching various baby birthing progs including the american maternity ward one - it's insane, they're all so calm. Then I realised that it's because epidurals are normal there - even with quite high cs rates.

Naturally, I'm a little anti-epi because somehow I think it's cheating and intervention chances worry me- BUT am suddenly starting to see them as actually very sensible and I won't rule one out going forward.

Could also be lingering Catholic guilt on my part - you 'sinned' to get pregnant (esp me, tut tut) so it's right that you should 'pay' for it. Consciously, I think and know that's bollocks, but wonder if that's embedded in women in general - esp older midwives who think us young uns are soft etc?

That's today's wild conjecture

Really hope your sis is ok tho.

I'm better than I was, but appreciate sympathy . OH is also suffering with same bug and seems to not realise that I'm worse off as can't medicate. Yesterday he came back from work without even asking if I needed anything getting - knowing we're out of tissues (on third loo roll) and paracetamol (have a little bit of calpol left), and haven't got much food in. I, of course, fussed over him (a bit) and made him dinner etc even tho I was still rough. Bloody men!

Lol at Purple wanting to have a kitten instead

Btw have you been watching 'don't just stand there, i'm having your baby' on BBC? It's about training up new dads to be useful in the birthing room. Mainly quite young dads but soooo wish my OH would get that treatment...

Well think about it, kittens come ready toilet trained, they are self cleaning, cute, cheaper than children by a looooong way and nobody calls social services if you bugger off on holiday and leave them at home. Clearly a kitten is the sensible, well informed choice

Admittedly you do occasionally get a totally sociopathic one that hates you like evil cat but that happens with children as well, they're called teenagers...

Congrats Cavort! But your poor sis! It's outrageous that someone asks for pain relief and the MW would just say no. Would they do it if she was in pain for any other reason - unlikely. But a woman giving birth and you're just supposed to bite dow on on something like it's middle ages.

I have told Sis I think she should speak to the Supervisor of Midwives about what happened and consider pursuing an official complaint.

I have been reading up on women's rights during pregnancy, labour and childbirth and MW's can not refuse a request for pain relief medication unless there is a sound medical reason why it is not appropriate for you. If your midwife or doctor believes an epidural or pethidine is not safe for you at that time, they should explain to you very clearly why this is and offer an appropriate alternative.

Article 3 of the European Convention on Human Rights prohibits inhuman and degrading treatment. So, if your caregivers don't provide you with a requested epidural or other suitable and safe pain relief, then this could amount to inhuman or degrading treatment if you suffer serious distress as a result.

Cost-saving or short-staffing are not sufficient reason for you to be refused outright, though in practical terms when a labour ward is busy and if your labour progresses quickly it may not be possible to site an epidural in time. While you are waiting for an epidural your caregivers should provide you with alternative pain relief if requested and sufficient support if needed to ensure any pain is well managed in the interim.

This clearly did not happen in my Sister's case.

Useful Birthrights factsheet

From a selfish point of view, i'm obviously not glad this has happened but it means I will go into childbirth much more informed about what my rights and choices are, and god help the MW who tries to tell me I can't have what i'm asking for!

Thanks for sharing that cavort, really useful to know. Glad your poor sis and nephew are ok. It's scary that you and Janey say this kind of story isn't unusual.

Of course I haven't started thinking about birth plans yet but have to admit I'm quite clueless about it all. I'm very 'natural' in everything I do, so of course like the idea of doing it all very naturally, water birth maybe etc. Am also well aware it's impossible to know what it will be like for you and I may well need the strong stuff! I remember ages ago someone told me pethidine can be bad for baby, and a friend was saying yesterday that she'd had it quite last minute at her birth and she didn't think it was very good as she could feel everything and was just as painful, she just felt a bit sort of drunk, she said the good thing was time seems to go a bit faster because of being a bit out of it - she didn't seem to rate it though. However I've also heard bad things about epidural - it travelling up, that kind of thing. It's bad that whether you get that at the right time or not can rely on the availability of hospital staff! Isn't there a window you can miss with epidural? Haven't really thought about the option of elective c-section - if you're 31 and it's the first time, should you try and go "natural"?

I'm jumping way ahead of myself, just hoping I get that far! Would be good to know what you all think, and are planning.

Trust me Alex you've got ages to worry about it

If you're planning to have more than one, it's better to avoid ELCS as it makes subsequent births a bit easier, but VBACs are always an option too.

The thing that I've learnt most so far in my 24 weeks is that out's good to have a plan, but it's not unusual for Plan 'B' to choose you. For many many women, it's the concept of loss of control that makes being pregnant so hard, and the further you go, the more control you lose.

This is in some ways inevitable, but you will always always have an element of choice in the moment. Essentially, information is your friend, so gather away! There's some fab resources out there, including stats on individual hospitals.

In the meantime, you've got the nondelights of non-wired bras and the delights of mat leggings to look forward to! Got some bras yesterday which was a trial - boobs now feel more wobbly and less supported, and I now think I got a cup size too small - tried on twin packs which were attached so couldn't properly adjust it. There's a smidge of overspill emerging. Just after taking the tags off. Rawr.

But got two pairs of mat leggings from New Look for £15 - sooooo comfy!!

Happy Easter wonderful elderberries!

Alex try not to worry about it, you've got ages yet! Whichever ante-natal classes you choose to do will cover all your options and pros and cons of each.

I've just done the NHS ones and in summary, pethidine/diamorphine is better if given more than a few hours hours before birth is likely as this is how long it takes to wear off. If you have it too close to the birth it can suppress baby's breathing and make breastfeeding difficult, but if given well in advance of birth it can make you feel calmer and more relaxed and allow you to sleep during a long and/or difficult labour.

It's apparently never too late for an epidural unless your contractions are so strong that you are unable to keep still long enough to get one put in, but it can be too early for an epidural. If you have one before you are in established labour (4-5cm) it can slow contractions down or cause them to stop. You are more more likely to need an episiotomy, forceps or ventouse delivery if you've had an epidural, but many women decide they can live with that in exchange for a pain-free birth.

I have an ideal in my head that I would like as natural a birth as possible, preferably with just G&A and possibly in a pool... but I am also a realist (especially after what has just happened to Sis), so I think I would be stupid to rule anything out so long as I end up with a healthy baby at the end of it. I think my birth plan is just going to say I want skin-to-skin with baby immediately after the birth before any cleaning and weighing, and I want cord clamping delayed. If baby is breech at term I think I'm going to decline ECV and opt for ELCS.

Having booked a few days in the sun next weekend, I have just had a look if any of my Summer clothes fit... and the answer is (quite literally) a big fat no. I have a few pairs of denim shorts which sit really low and are usually way too big so I have to wear a belt to hold them up, which I thought were a dead cert to still fit now, but no, they are too tight around my bum/thighs and I can barely fasten the button Looks like I need a trip to buy a few days worth of fat bastard tent-like Summer clothes.

I think that I'll probably end up having an epidural, but will see - if for some reason I happen to be one of those women who will sneeze the baby out then would of course try without first. Most women get the epidural here, so there definitely should not be any issues with availability.

Had lunch with DHs family yesterday and looks like I really don't need to buy any baby clothes in newborn sizes. We apparently have whopper babies on both sides of the family - my sister, niece, DH and his nephew were all around 4 kilos, 53-54 cm. So I might need that epidural after all..

Brave I got one non-wired bra as a part of a bra order, was on sale so thought I'll give it a try. But if anybody suggests I'll go out of the house wearing that, they'll have another think coming Wow it's ugly and makes my boobs look massively weird.

I have a doctor's appointment tomorrow and thanks to the long weekend, we've had a dinner party, went to a restaurant and had a massive lunch yesterday - I might just have to ..um..be a bit creative when he asks about the weight gain.

My solution to the bra issue is currently not to wear one at all, I never thought I'd see a plus side to small boobs but yay to gravity defying C cups... Or whatever bloody size they actually are.

I've still not been weighed at any of my appointments so am still blissfully ignorant or my weight gain, long may it continue!

I was holding my new nephew today, all 7lb 1oz of him in all his little innocent cuteness..... then suddenly it dawned on me that I was having one of these myself and a massive alarm started going off in my head. OMFG what am I doing??? I'm sure I should be feeling joy at the thought of one of my own turning up in around 3 months but at the moment all I'm feeling is terror.

I also went to Primark today and bought some Summer clothes. I figured I may be fat pregnant but I take some militant satisfaction in buying a stretchy long vest top in a bigger size for £2 rather than a maternity vest top in my size for £15. This belly will not defeat me!

I'm not wearing a bra much either really, but I won't leave the house without one.

my boobs are feeling stupidly heavy and sore so a bra is a must, although I only have 2 which are comfy to wear now. 34e is a piss take, I feel really self conscious of them.

I am kind of shitting myself too, I will actually have a small person relying on me 100%.....eeek.

My OH is finally admiting this is happening now though, some friends asked us to go to their bday weekend in Bournmouth in August and we said yes, then when we got in the car he said we cant really can we as you'll be huge. Nice to know he is thinking about me a bit, I still think we can probably go though. Still not forgiven him for suggesting we play drinking games at my birthday though, even though I was glaring at him! He even said he knew I was pissed at him but said he wanted to do it so ignored me....charming.

Oh marking my place. Been off MN for a bit as was quite ill but am fine now

hi Zombies, welcome back, everything ok?

Yes, thanks. Was quite horrible for a bit (and paracetamol only goes so far!) but am fine now.

Bless you Zombies pregnancy illness sucks to high heaven. Very glad to hear you're better now... had a conversation with a newly trained nurse at the weekend who said 'oh at least you will have had morphine after your operation' (just before Christmas) and looked apalled when I said, nope, just paractemol.

Nice to see you back not much has changed, we're all a lot fatter and we have a couple of new arrivals, too.

Bragate - new bras also chafing near armpit as I have side boobage going on. Shocking. My mum however tried to reassure me that mine won't droop overnight (always been lovely and pert due to miniscule size) as hers stayed upright after 3 kids.

My stick-thin sister was shocked at 'how huge I look already' whereas my nan said 'I hardly look pregnant' at a family gathering yesterday lol.

Cavort I noticed that New Look were doing mat summer stuff already - some nice summer shorts etc. Not too pricey either...

How's your docs appt Hazle?

I had 24 week check this morning, clean bill of health (yay), sympathy for aforementioned op (which was nice), BP on the lowside but usual for time and baby in the right place with instantly picked up heartbeat. No weigh-in. [bugrin]

Brave thanks for asking, the usual, quick check and some new tests. Everything fine, have put on quite a bit of weight in the past month, but there was a lot of eating over the long weekend, so I'm blaming that. Good to hear you're fine too.

Doc didn't advise me to fly to Barca in May though, and considering that I feel like a clumsy whale already, he's probably right, I won't enjoy the trip anyway.

In case of side boobage, take the following steps - put our right hand into your left bra cup. Grab the flesh under the armpit and pull it back into the bra, this is where it belongs. If it does not stay inside the bra but escapes back under the armpit, you probably need a smaller back size and possibly bigger cup.

Morning all, and happy (belated) easter!

Welcome back zombies, sorry to hear you've been ill. The lack of drugs is shocking even when you're feeling slightly under the weather, so can't imagine how you and brave have coped with being properly ill...

Good news brave on the midwife appt. I am really, really hoping that I don't get a weigh in this time! Although I have finally started doing some exercise again (although damn hormones, I swam 1 length on Saturday, and a guy just wouldn't make room for me to share the lane with him, and I had to get out before I burst out crying?!).

I hate my boobs more than anything else in the world right now. They're beyond enormous and make me feel obese. Surely I should be breaking the 'offside rule' by now (ie have a belly bigger than my boobs) but no, at 26 weeks the boobs are still bigger than the (apparently) basketball sized uterus inside me. Lovely. The bump is def getting bigger by the day though, and DP said that it at least makes my boobs look less ridiculous. [bsad]

Hit me this morning that I actually don't have that long left at work. My role is changing slightly and my boss said he wanted to do it ASAP to enable me to have a couple of months in the new job before I go - felt in shock afterwards that I would be off so quickly!

On top of baby shopping and planning (still no closer on names), and the loft extension finally beginning tomorrow (which will leave loads of decorating to do after it's completed around the whole house) DP and I are now starting to look for wedding venues. I intend to do no further wedding planning than that bit, but suspect I will be quite fussy about venues, and really want a Saturday wedding, so figure I can book that now and forget about the rest for a year or so. I'm going to be exhausted by the time this baby arrives!

Cross post hazle. I too am putting on weight fast now I think - but it's to be expected (and necessary!) now so am trying not to stress. Glad all went ok.

Am so impressed with your bra knowledge btw!

I've been keeping my own eye on my weight - have put on around 10 pounds in eight weeks - but I'm not as bothered about it as I thought I would be. I'm eating very healthily apart from now daily cadbury's twirl , mostly salads and rinking lots of juice etc.

I think ten stone will be an epic milestone though - am somewhat scared by that one, and only 4 pounds away. Gulp.

Hazle merci as ever for your amazing knowledge! Have tried scooping and alas didn't work. Well, it worked for a second or three, at least! Pretty sure backsize doens't need to be any smaller as I'm struggling to do them up as it is but might go back and get properly fitted next weekend - alas, it was a last minute foray and I was not sufficiently groomed to be seen by a bossy lady in a dept store in an unkempt fashion!

Lol at the offside rule Janey I think my belly is now somewhat impinging on that particular rule, but then my 'strikers' were never particularly the most likely to offend for long.

Although stick-thin sister also noted my comparatively huge norks yesterday, in a complimentary way, too! Sigh, if only OH appreciated this too...

Really laughing at 'strikers' brave!

Oh and was a little bit sick in my mouth at the 10 stone milestone. Jealous. I know at 5 foot 11 I'm always going to be over 10 stone, even when skinny and not preggers (for a healthy BMI i need to be about ten and a half stone I think), but still. I WISH I had that particular milestone, rather than a much scarier one that's currently ahead of me [bsad]