We will brook no argument for a boring, uneventful, blooming pregnancy; followed by a perfectly-timed pain-free sneeze birth; vol 5

[ScreamIfYouWantToMeetSanta]

Hi No Brookers! I do hope this has worked and is in the right place...

I've added a few extra sofas so we have plenty of space for all the Rat Smackers who will be joining us soon. There's also a nice long table filled with mince pies, yule logs, gingerbread snowmen and xmas puds! Plus some non-alcoholic mulled wine. I've strategically positioned a few clean glittery vom buckets under the table, just in case it's still a bit too early for xmas munchies for some people!

As you were...

Okay that post really was unforgivably long. I'm so sorry, I'm sure most of you don't get anywhere near the end of one of my posts! I don't know why I can't be more concise?! I promise to work on it!

Oh Scream that consultant appointment sounds very unnerving for you! I know they have to tell you the risks but I think they also have a duty to explain that in the context of the likelihood of the risks too.

And I don't like the idea of it not being monitored 'because there's nothing they could do anyway'. That just doesn't make sense because if there was an issue identified at say 35 weeks (before the scan at 36 weeks) they would surely deliver the baby rather than just shrug their shoulders?

Can you ask your independent mw about it and what she thinks?

It just seems your consultant is a bit blasé about the competing medical issues - and that doesn't seem right. They should be working to find the best way to deal with it, not just listing risks left right and centre.

I think I'd be tempted to either see if it was possible to get a second opinion or ask your mw.

Is it worth starting a separate thread to see if anyone on MN has any experience - at least if you could get an idea of what other people do, or get as their treatment, then you'd know what to go back to the consultant with?

And for what it's worth I don't think your posts are too long! xx

Scream - Biscuits is right (as normal). You need to get another opinion on this. You certainly need another chat about it with someone who can not leave you feeling rubbish!

Yes scream I agree with the others. You definitely need a second opinion, and some better reassurance x

Now if Pomme can see I'm always right, why is it taking DH and DS so long to figure it out?

scream, what she's said doesn't really make sense... Let's hope she just wasn't being clear. If your bump growth slows you get referred for a growth scan anyway. My friend had one at 34 weeks as they thought her bump was measuring small for dates, baby fine on scan, end of. But i just mean the mw could pick up on that anyway, if its a problem. Either that or the risk must be so low It's not worth monitoring. After all, if i was going to get growth scanned for single umbilical artery with dd, which they also can't do anything about, if the risk of iugr was high enough they would iykwim? Definitely get some other advice. I find not all consultants are equal- the last one i saw didn't even acknowledge the additional problems of a breech twin 2 and additional pain in delivering while advocating VB if twin 1 stays head down. As I'd had the same chat before I know I didn't have the pros and cons and risks explained properly. In fact, I blame him and that appointment for my labour nightmare- its clearly still worrying me!! scans are notoriously unreliable but surely not that bad... I asked in my pg with dd re: risks of CS and was told uterine scarring, possible total hysterectomy etc etc. By a very pro vb mw but still. The percentage of women having hysterectomy after CS, fibroid or not, must be so low, think I found out last time and discounted it as a worry!! Try not to worry too much, ring your independent mw and see where she advises you go from here.

scream I'm shocked and angry on your behalf. I agree with the others, I think a second opinion is required here at the very least. If you have to raise a formal complaint about this appointment today then so be it. It does not seem right to ignore something that they are aware could potentially cause a problem. It just seems outrageous.

Ninja I concur with the others. Please try not to worry (difficult I know). I only just started feeling first flutters at your stage and didn't get full on booted until well after 20 week scan. It may even turn out that you also have an anterior placenta like some of the other brookers.

dream I'm pleased you had a good appointment today.

Little good to hear you've got your appointment sorted out for Friday. Hopefully it will all become a bit more real for you after that.

I've had such a busy day today out and about. I had a midwife appointment earlier and I'm pleased to report all is well here too. I'll be seeing her again in 3 weeks when I'll be almost 29 weeks It does feel like it's going quite fast at the moment.

Scream, what a scary appointment :( I'd definitely get a second opinion, and definitely insist on having more appointments/growth scans if you're concerned -or even if you're not! You're right - surely if you're having a CS, there might be a particularly good time to have it with regard to the fibroid, especially with its position. It seems like she was incredibly untactful - and if she knew as little about it as it sounds like she did today, she should have gotten someone else in to give you a second opinion there and then!

Ninja, 16 weeks is still quite early - and you could be part of team anterior placenta! Scream, it was me that confirmed I had one quite recently. Since, I've noticed I only tend to get big movements/kicks very low down, whereas everything higher up is more muted. My LO seems to like to move around lots in terms of position (normally at inconvenient times!), and is often breech in the evening I think, hence being able to feel all the kicks. Anyway, enough about me- Ninja, I'm sure your appointment (later this week?) will reassure you. I spent so much time between the 12wk scan and 16wk (17 or 18 wk for me!) MW appointment worrying too...

Dream, glad your appointment went well. I've been having very vivid dreams too, and had horrible ones about murders of loved ones earlier in pregnancy - horrible :( Can't even begin to imagine how scary yours must have been.

Glad your appointment went well scarlet. To me, everyone else's PGs seem to be going very quickly, but mine's going very slowly!

Picked up all the forms for my test today. On the notes, the doctor's written about the infection I had, and has then put "12 weeks pregnant" underneath. 12 weeks?! 22! I think I'm just going to edit it and put "currently 22 weeks pregnant" underneath. It'll clearly be in different handwriting.. and it's not like it's untrue! Seeing that's made me wonder if I should phone the MW after all.. hmm.

Actually feeling surprisingly good after a full day of teaching and travel, plus housework, cooking and working this evening. Especially after not that much sleep. It's given me hope for the 11 and a half weeks left of term, which I've been dreading, stamina-wise..

Oh, and I uploaded a slightly more normal looking picture of my bump, taken when looking slightly more presentable - complete with cat, who obviously wondered what on earth I was doing...

Still a very neat bump Musical! I'm very envious. Mine is in the process of spreading right around my torso to obliterate any remmants of a waistline!

Thanks for all the supportive comments everyone. I feel better just for being able to vent to you all, and that you also think the lack of monitoring is strange! My thought is if the baby's growth starts to be restricted surely it might be better to deliver earlier (say 35 weeks as Biscuits mentioned) rather than waiting until closer to term? Or even if the baby was going to be born at the same time, isn't it helpful if they know in advance that the baby will be below normal size and therefore is more likely to need assistance?!

Anyways, I've just had a massive freakout on my DH (who wasn't able to attend the appt) and he's helped to calm me down. Tomorrow we're going to request another appointment with a different consultant at the hospital and get a second opinion. Even if this consultant also recommends no monitoring, I want them to be able to explain to us why this is in the best interests of the BABY, not just keeping down the hospital's expenses! Plus I really want them to be able to give me a better idea of the scale of the problem, i.e. does this definitely mean the growth will be at least a little restricted, or is there in fact a good chance that the baby will be unaffected. At least I have another scan booked at 26 weeks now, so we can see how the growth is doing at that point. If the hospital won't give me any more scans past that point then I'll probably end up booking another private one at around 30 - 32 weeks, just to enable me to sleep!!

I'll also discuss it with my indep mw, she's always good at calming me down and giving me more details so I feel better informed. She's already said that she will be monitoring the growth of the bump as well, and she will pay particular attention to this risk for me. My only concern is that if my amniotic fluid levels stay normal, I think my bump size will stay normal even if the baby isn't growing at the right rate. Still, it's better than nothing at all.

Enough of the me me me. As DH has said, we will get a second opinion and not worry about it until then. My LO was fine growth-wise at the 21 week scan which is mainly because the placenta problem is an issue in later pg not the early stages

Thanks for all the support ladies! It really helps! As soon as there's a risk to the baby it instantly puts all my stupid SPD and sciatica issues in perspective. I just want my LO to be okay!

p.s. Dream it sounds like that consultant you spoke to was hopeless! Isn't it frustrating that they let unhelpful people like that work with pg women, when we obviously need more reassurance and support than usual!

Thanks Scream. Mine's thickened out my waist considerably, but it still exists.. for now!

So glad you're calmer having freaked out to your DH. We clearly have the same freak out systems - I did exactly the same yesterday, and calmed down after I talked to him about it - only mine was over something incredibly minor, unlike yours which is something more freak-out worthy!

I think rubbish consultants exist throughout the hospital system - and it's just bad luck who you get. The first one I had for my back when I first had sciatica, and found out it was bulging disc, said I could have steroid injections but they probably wouldn't do anything, so I might as well just have surgery. Thankfully the second consultant said that was all rubbish, and that I should be able to avoid surgery until further down the line -but I spent the time in between consultations in frequent fear and tears. That's without a LO to worry about, or all the hormones.

blimey scream I'm not surprised you had a freak out after that. Definitely echo the second opinion here. Go armed with a list of questions and don't leave till you feel like you understand it all and are happy with what is offered. It must be very difficult to deal with constant pain and then all the other stuff on top of it.
little I forgot to say earlier that I know exactly what you mean re being in the system once you've got your booking appt. Good luck for fri.
musical your bump is lovely. I'm on dc2 and I'm about the same size as you already!

I honestly don't think they wouldn't monitor you to keep expenses down- after all, that is the hospital managers worry, not the consultants and their job focuses on the need to deliver healthy babies as their priority! My DH says the second consultant I saw is clinically very good and he'd trust him to eg. do my CS but that his communication skills can be very poor (like total lack of risk/benefits for VB discussion with me!). It's so hard to judge as a lay person just seeing them! Plus when pg and hormonal... I think the second opinion is still the right way to go, and hopefully you'll get better answers. Look at hawthers and fishcake and those being monitored in subsequent pregnancies because of previous IUGR- I really, really don't believe they wouldn't monitor you if there was a risk. And the level of amniotic fluid surely can't totally disguise IUGR or no-one would get spotted first time without consultant monitoring, like hawthers and fishcake* did... or have I got this totally wrong?! A baby not growing right surely can't be producing the same volume of wee and increasing fluid volume at the same level can it???

Morning all!

Is it bad or really bad that my dad (aka childcare) is in traffic, making me a bare minimum of an hour late for work and I'm really not that bothered..?!? Good job there's only 5 days left. I'm tired.

Plus going out, to the cinema with friends, tmw night for the first time since dd born. And already stressing about how tired I'll be, and worrying as dd has mmr tomorrow whether she'll be ok, whether she'll be up in the night n need me etc. There's no hope for me...

Not bad or really bad Dream - I would say totally normal!!!

What film are you going to see? I'm sure you might be tired when you get home if it's a late night but I think you deserve a night without your shift on the landing - I bet you enjoy the film!!!!

just a flying visit. Re mmr etc jabs dream my DS had his last Friday, and he didn't cry with the first 2 injections, just sort of looked at the nurse, then looked at his leg, then looked at her as if to say "what was that you did?" he cried as the third one went in, but stopped crying as soon as she stuck the cotton wool on it, and then went back to his usual jabbering self. We went home, he had tea, and he went to bed as normal, and slept through till slightly later than his usual wake up time. And so far, there has been no other side effects. So not all babies are a nightmare after them it would seem, so i will keep my fingers crossed that your DD takes it in her stride like my DS did

(and with 5 days left to work, if i were you i would be past caring!!! especially if you are going to be a SAHM after the twins are born)

(PPS yay re getting the car transferred into your name, and any joy on persuading your DH to get a cleaner in yet?)

Hello! I have uploaded a new, not the best Dh is not a natural photographer! You can definitely see my bump has dropped compared to last photo which I am glad I haven't imagined!

Anyway I can't believe there have been such rubbish consultant appointments! Scream hopefully your MW can reassure you, and hopefully the fibroid will not be a problem at all! It id horrible when you don't know if something awful is going to happen! Anyway hopefully all the brooking we can do will sort it out. After all my BP has been in a normal range for a few weeks now and at won't point I was despairing a little.

Dream I know it can be difficult, but please don't stress about your night out, just try and enjoy it. I assume DH will have DD? In which case she will got to bed a treat, also if she is a bit poorly then calpol and ibuprofen/calprofen can be taken together as I am sure you know. :)

Ninja please don't worry, I did feel movements at about that time, but my placenta is very posterior, so there is no protection as said by the sonographer!

I can't remember what else I was going to reply to...

I need to whinge though! I feel so uncomfortable, I have piled on weight/water retention recently, I can't wear my wedding ring and I really miss it. Also I didn't wear my tubigrips for a morning when I was out and I have been in quite a bit of pain since with the SPD. I am also not sure if this coincided with having relations with Dh and I feel sad that this might be out of the window now. :(

Generally, I can't believe how tough I have found this pregnancy and I am really not sure I can do it again, even though I would like more children. :( Anyway I must stop being a misery guts and just be thankful for what I have, this pregnancy was hard won!
Oh and a lot my food aversions are back, I don't like veg (can still eat it which is a bonus!), fish, tomato based pasta sauces. It is really restrictive!

Purple - I feel the same! Want this baby so much but am hating pg this time round whereas I LOVED it with dd1 and felt almost better than I do not pg. My bump seems to have got higher so am getting breathless at the smallest thing and suffering a lot with acid reflux/indigestion. I also keep getting joint injuries. They don't last long but are painful whilst there.

We are going to be a 2 child family even though pre this one I wanted 3.

You're not alone though! And yes your bump has definitely dropped! Nice pic, I might put one on myself later I got dh to take one two weeks ago.

Dream - dd was fine post mmr bar a day of high temperature about a week later (but she was fine in herself). Enjoy your night out and try not to worry about her.

My post is rubbish! So many missing words, that is what happens when you MN with a child interrupting you! :o

I am sorry you feel the same Pomme :(
I am going to see how the labour is and how my SPD resolves itself before I completely write off another baby, someone I sort of know, had bad SPD and then didn't have it half as bad in her next pg and her next pg was with twins!
I just don't think I can leave it too long if I do want no.3 as I am sure my body won't cope as well if I am older. Then again it is nice to think I don't have to have more miscarriages.etc if I don't try again!

Oh I am wearing a H&M top I think you can just about see it is really long! I am already finding some of my other maternity tops too short so a relief to know these should still fit!

Great bump pic Purple. I love how you're dressed to match your name . I now have visions of you always in purple.

I hope you're feeling a bit better later on. Is there any opportunity for you to have a rest today?

Dream I would be tempted to not bother going in! Especially as you only have 5 days left and probably aren't going back. Go to the cinema with your friends and relax and enjoy yourself. Your DD will be fine, even if she's a bit grotty after her MMR your DH is very capable of looking after her. As others have said anyway, it's not a given that all children suffer after their MMR. My DS also had no side effects whatsoever, you'd never have known he'd had it done.

I've got a terrible headache today. First one I've had since those early first trimester ones. I'm still really suffering with pregnancy insomnia and it's making me feel quite ill now. I was exactly the same last time and I don't think I've ever slept the same since. I'm sick of having no energy, motivation and being grumpy. I can get comfy in bed, I can also relax my mind but for some reason I just can't get into a proper sleep. Even when I'm asleep it's very very light and I'm aware that I'm in bed and asleep IFKWIM.
That's my whinge for the day

Lol :o My bum is firmly planted on the sofa, can't find the remote which is a shame as I fancy watching some TV, not something I do that often, although really looking forward to OBEM!

Scarlet take some paracetamol and make sure you drink lots of water. I keep having patches of not sleeping, it is tough! Maybe worth giving your Dr a ring see if he can suggest anything for sleeping? Maybe there is a herbal tea or something that is safe for you to have that would help?

Oh Scarlet sorry you have a headache . Can you have a quiet snuggly tv day with DS?

I know what you mean about not being in a deep sleep too - I blame sleeping on my side as I am a natural front sleeper. And not being able to turn over without waking up to do so. I've had to start wedging a cushion under the front of my bump or else it aches when I lie on one side for a long time (like I was moaning about when I was standing up for a long time)so I have to move that when I turn over too - its all a bit of a faff! So I'm resting all night but coupling all that with the weird / realistic dreams doesn't make for a restful night. Although no dreams as horrible as Dream's - you poor poor love .

I am also fed up of being tired and grumpy. I am on a real mission today to try and be patient with DS today as I feel I'm being so grumpy and it sort of starts a negative cycle with him being more grumpy and me bing less patient etc. so far we're having a nicer day!

But I feel for you ladies further on with the feeling short of breath / felling heavy etc. we are getting there though ladies. One day at a time. Purple and Pomme not that long to go!!

Have you spoken to your mw Scream or found out about a second opinion yet? Hope they can sort you out?

Forgotten everything else I wanted to say. I have to go now and sew the elastic back in my maternity jeans which seems to have broken

I'm so sorry to hear so many of our group are having a rough time. This pg business is a lot tougher than people warn you about!

Dream it's easier said than done but try not to worry about your DD tom, she will be perfectly looked after by her Dad and hopefully won't feel any after effects from the MMR. Having a happy Mum who's had a chance to re-energise with her friends will be just as good for your DD as it is for you!

Loving the bump pic Purple, but I'm sorry to hear your SPD is playing up along with swelling and other problems. Sounds like a bit of a nightmare at the moment, but you're so close to the end and it will all be worth it!! I hope you stay glued to the sofa and feel a bit better by the afternoon.

Pomme I'm sorry you're suffering so much as well! That sounds really uncomfortable. I understand why you're thinking of changing your family plans from 3 DC to 2, at the moment I also can't imagine ever wanting to go through pg again!!

Scarlet those pregnancy headaches are a awful! Have you tried the usual combo of paracetamol / drinking lots of water / putting something cold on your forehead? I hope your LO gives you a nice easy day, so you can look after yourself for a while.

Biscuits I can't imagine you being grumpy! You're always so lovely on here! I know what you mean about feeling constantly tired and grumpy though, I think my poor DH is nearly as sick of this pg as I am!

As for me, I did all my whinging yday so I won't bore you all again. Suffice to say my leg/back/hips are worse today than ever, sigh. I booked an appt with a different consultant immediately following my 26 week scan though, so that's positive. I'll have a list of questions this time, to make sure I fully understand why there won't be any more monitoring if he also says that it's unnecessary. I'm so glad DH can come to that appt, and also it'll be after my next mw appt so I can talk to her as well.

Onwards and upwards ladies! To end on a positive note, only a few days after the birth of my friend's DD at 26+5 she's already being weaned off the ventilator and able to ingest some breastmilk she's doing really well all things considered.