November 2011. Bumps, kicks and less feeling sick.

[Missyraines]

Thought I'd take the plunge and go for it.

Thanks for that Ali, I think it is 70mg and I have never had pre-eclampsia or high blood pressure!

Evening all and welcome crazy - what a tough time you must be having. Feel free to come and offload if it helps.

dirge I'm not getting an IM due to cost but will be hiring a doula and so far, have refused additional hospital appts so that, despite being high risk (in their eyes), my next mw appt is not until the end of august. My local mw is being very supportive of my hb wishes and I have written to the head of midwifery stating my intentions and requesting a supportive mw team for my hb.

I am feeling very PMA!

Also have an ace acupuncturist who is being v supportive too. She's confident I won't go overdue as there are lots of points to use to bring on labour.

Ladies, I am a bit of an anarchist/lentil weaver (though a committed carnivore!), so ignore my soap box stuff if it's too heavy but:

1. You can refuse any treatment you choose, it's your body/baby. Worst case, smile sweetly and just don't turn up for the appt.
2. Induction - you cannot be induced against your will unless there's an extreme emergency (eg you are unconscious - but then they'd do a crash c-section). Don't forget, the World Health Authority defines term pregnancy as 37-42 weeks. So if a hospital starts talking about being overdue, officially you are not until you are 42 weeks.

voodoo so sorry you are facing battles. Stay calm and politely thank them for their comments but that you are choosing to labour/birth in X hospital, as is your right. Put it in writing if you have to. The only thing (I think) they can refuse is to allow you to birth in a midwife centre (which would apply to me, hence the homebirth).
After all, what can they do if you arrive at your chosen hospital in labour? Just say, well I'm here now and btw, I have no transport (white lie). I'm sure they'll fit you in.

One question I am asking all the time is 'is this policy or specific to me?' If all is well with you and baby and it's simply hospital policy, I'd take it with a major pinch of salt. Hospitals are the best place to be if you're ill but they also see the worst case scenarios in pg and birth, so will apply it to you if you let them.

Sorry for epic post - am feeling very positive about things at the moment and want to share the love!

Neither have I - but I am considered a bit risky given my 2 babies were growth restricted (though only found out about DD being classified as such whilst pg this time). I was pretty much told there is no harm in taking it and therefore you might as well. Some doctors seem to favour it but you do need to stop as you get towards the end which nobody told me last time as thinned blood and labour don't mix

MrsA thanks, I am riding the pma here - from everyone!

It is a mw led unit so therein lies the problem and as the OH isnt feeling particularly comfortable about a homebirth I think that option may be out for the meantime.

I agree totally re checking the suitability of policies, poor OH had a 1st time first hand experience of how sometimes we are told what to do rather than asked or consulted about labour/birth. I think others have experienced the same. Obviously not all experiences are the same.

Going to try and keep the lines of communication open and rather than be told I can do nothing to help the situation am going to go and see my mw and my doctor and chat to them about changing things.

I haven't ever visited an acupuncturist or reflexologist but am also going to be looking into that as I have seen some really positive stuff about how they can help with labour/pg/general health.

What did we do before the tinternet!

Sorry not to be PMA but just a small note of caution re induction - I was totally against it with 1st pg and refused an induction booking instead going for post-dates assessment (term + 12) - which led quite quickly to an induction, emergency CS and tiny baby in NICU - I consider myself very lucky to have brought DS home with me. Some women (admittedly very few) don't go into labour because something is wrong and stillbirth rates do increase as you go further overdue. It absolutely did not occur to me that I might not get a happy ending in this day and age, I thought I would just go into labour when I was good and ready.

I know its not relevant yet and I promise not to get all soap boxy again but if you want to hold out for natural labour absolutely do but please please please be extra vigilent for baby's movements and ensure you keep getting checked over.

Ah alicat! You are not being soapboxy, just sensible to suggest caution. Must have been a horrible time and so scary.

Thanks Voodoo.

To be a bit more PMA I say just listen to your body and your baby and trust your instincts (as well as medical folk)

Alicat, not soap boxy at all. Induction is generally booked + 12 to 14 as after this there can be problems. However I guess unless there is an immediate reason (HBP, pre-eclampsia, baby not happy) before this then it shouldn't be considered routinely.

Also re induction you can insist that every 5 minutes the MW use a hand help doppler to check baby - you don't have to be strapped to a bed medically - this is so they can use the equipment which just sits on you.

That said having been through induction the bed ridden way once I was on syto drip I appreciated the need to monitor baby and how they cope with the more rapid onset of labour. There was a risk/medical need for this.

Even more PMA - for 3 nights running now I have had kick that I simultaneously felt, heard and seen - maybe I'm pressing too hard with Doppler as it just keeps getting booted! Yay :)

Yeah I'm on asprin too. As a extra precaution to aid good blood flow between me and baby. I have a doppler scan monday to check how thats going. Dose might stay same after that, go up, or might even have to do injections.

I can only echo everything alicat has said regarding inductions. Don't want to scare or sound soapboxy either but you wouldn't believe the number of women who are on the Sands forum simply because they were past 40 weeks and the placenta just stopped working and baby died.

I have to disagree a little bit katie - there are often problems way before the +12-14 mark. The number of babies who were due to be induced a couple of days after they died is incredible, the stories are heartbreaking. It seems so needless to me, why wait those extra days? Remember a placenta works at full function until 37 weeks, after that it plateaus and starts to break down, espeically after 40 weeks. My personal feeling is 42 weeks is leaving is far too late and increasing risks for babies - I think 5-7 days over a due date would be more than late enough to take risks.

For this reason, as well as my fragile mental health I'll be induced around the 37 week mark. I'll be connected to monitors galore, a couple of drips going with antibiotics for my next labour, but I really don't care what happens to me as long as my boy comes home.

Induction isn't there to ruin your birth experience, it is there to make sure your baby comes out and comes home, and that at the end of the day is really the only thing that matters. I know only too well that babies can die in an whisper and in an instant without you realising. I know I wasn't overdue with Belle and it is a totally different scenario, but, we heard her heartbeat on the doppler before I went to bed, I woke up in the morning and she had gone. It was as quick as that. Many overdue women on Sands had similar experiences - everything really can change in minutes/hours. My biggest problem is I know too much now, not only do I have my own history but being on Sands I've read how everyone elses babies died too. It really is terrifying how often things go wrong.

Sorry that was quite soapboxy. I just don't want anyone to live what I've lived these last 12 months. I'll shut up now.

More spotting tonight. In a hell of a state again. Hospital first thing again. I might as well move in the number of times I need to go there anyway, as well as all these added bleeding visits. I'm fairly sure baby is ok, I'm sure I've felt movements tonight but I don't trust myself at all anyway. I just wish they knew what this bleeding was.

caz you are not being soapboxy at all, just sharing your experience to provide greater knowledge!! I hope your hosp visit goes well x x

poppet thanks, I can deal with the depression side of things- done it before & got through it, though I don't know what has triggered it this time. It is more the anxiety that I'm struggling with, I have no previous experience of it myself & again no idea what has brought it on which is even worse but I'll get there!!

Hi Caz my sister has been through the same situation as yourself and now has a bonny girl and she was induced early. Not a pleasant birth experience due to the high level of intervention but a safe one.

I problem with induction for me is that my EDD is at 36 weeks by my calculation. I am pretty switched on about my cycle and if you calculate back from my EDD I was in another country without my OH, I had a full period, and hadn't bumped uglies for about 3 weeks. So any induction at or around EDD would be too early.

I hear you Caz, I personally don't have any issues with early inductions where there is even a tiny remote possibility for a problem at all, I would do it again in a heartbeat.

DH and me are keeping everything crossed for you Caz and your DH that this pregnancy turns out to be perfect.

My moto last time was "anything to get baby out safely" and despite hating every second of the induced birth and dealing with the aftermath - I would do the same. I just couldn't go against medical advice, it's not in me. I admire ladies that do challenge (but I can't, I'm more risk averse than the Drs to be honest and I can't find the courage to decline something which is intended to reduce risk just for a more natural birth).

Anyway that's me in a netshell - very very very risk averse. I don't read risks the same as other people. The 1 in XXXXX is 1 too many for me!!! I would hate for anyone to take my risk aversion as a comment on how they want to manage their births - I promise you it really really isn't, it's just my way.

Caz, I'm sorry, I missed the news about the spotting. I'm really sorry you are having such a lot of stress and worry.

Hi everyone,
I'm new to Mumsnet, and to pregnancy...this is my first (have three steps though) and am due 14/11/11...so I just wanted to say hello.
Hope I'm in the right place here to meet some of you due around the same time. Had a couple of mw appts so far, some early scans cause of bleeding but heard heartbeat last week so far so good.
Still keeping everything crossed after those first few weeks though, think they may have made me a little tiny bit paranoid, but working on pma...was happier than I thought I'd about heartburn just cause it meant everything must be going ok in there!!
Given my newness and the wealth of experience I've been reading about in here I wondered if you'd all tell me what's your best piece of advice for a first timer?

Hi Bron, welcome! Glad you have joined us, good to hear everything seems to be going well :) Lovely bunch of ladies here all due around the same time and I am sure you will be in good company!

I wouldn't know what was a good piece of advice for a 1st timer apart from to look after yourself (same for everyone) and to ask questions! I am sure there will be someone along who has more good advice than I can offer, sort of feel that I am nearly a 1st timer even though this is my 3rd as there is quite a gap between the 2 I have already and this one! Lots of things have changed and as it is over 10 years since I was last pregnant it is like I need to be treated as a 1st timer anyways!

Caz, how are you feeling? Have you been to the hospital? Hoping everything is well and you can have a more restful time of things very soon!

I am feeling much more positive today but a bit of a wreck re this interview this afternoon.... arrgghh I thought feeling sick was behind me now!

Hi Ladies

Interesting and informative discussion - no-one being soapboxy at all.

I am also pro-getting baby born as safely as possible. I'm also not up for unnecessary pain. My dd was born a month early and very quickly in under 4 hours with just 15 mins of pushing. I was glad to be under very good Danish care in a good university hospital because it was all a little shocking for me. But it was a good birth - the shockingly fast onset of pain was out of control so I had an excellent walking epidural that they expertly turned down in time for pushing, and only a tiny little tear. So very lucky. The midwives also really helped me get the breastfeeding going.
I am a bit nervous about giving birth early this time but they have special counselling and check-up for that and on the doctor's suggestion, I will be off work 6 weeks before just in case.

I really don't want any visitors for the first couple of weeks after birth. Last time, my father-in-law was visiting from the US (of course he didn't mean to be there when DD was born early but he felt lucky to see her). But I just wanted to flop around and just be with my DH as we figured it all out.

As for maternity clothes, H&M have some really nice maternity jeans and combats. Apart from that, I'm on the non-maternity maxi dress tip as i don't want to buy much maternity stuff. I have started to buy a few breastfeeding tops and dresses though, as I found that part more difficult to dress for then during pregnancy.

Morning all! I had my scan this morning, all fine. Baby drinking amniotic fluid and waving away. It was very cute but as I hate scans I asked for it to be quick so we were in and out in less than 10 minutes. We didn't find out the sex so I shall updates stats for my yellow bump!

MrsA It sounds like you have taken some really positive steps towards your homebirth. I am classed as high risk too but since seeing the consultant it feels like less of a battle. I can tell they still think I am silly not to jump at a ELCS but they have been respectful of my decision lately.

Caz you don't sound soapboxy - all of our views are coloured by our own experiences. DD was posterior and I had a long labour which end with a forceps delivery and 3rd degree tear (not directly related to her position but the cascade of intervention from a slow, posterior labour etc). I am living and breathing optimal foetal positioning in this pregnancy -e.g. no lying on my back, exercises to balance my uterus and encourage this baby into a good position. For most women this would probably be more than they would want to do but I am going to do everything in my power to avoid another posterior labour. See, experience influencing my choices. Completely normal so don't apologise please.

Bump I know a couple of mums-to-be at the moment who are dealing with anxiety. What are you doing to help with yours? Have you tried visualisation and breathing techniques?

Katie I too consider myself to be very risk averse which is why I am planning a homebirth. I am considered high risk of a 3rd/4th degree tear. The hospital decided a ELCS would be better for me to avoid the 5% risk of a tear. The logic escapes me. A guranteed cut to my abdomen. 100% certainty of having to recover from abdominal surgery v 5% risk of a tear elsewhere. I'm taking my chances on being able to labour at my own pace and to the hospitals timetable rather than opting for a CS. I don't know who decides that a CS is better for me that a tear.

My Comm MW just doesn't get it which is why I am having a independent mw. I have to be able to trust the person I am with to have faith in me. There is no risk to the baby if I tear btw. I guess it depends on your definition of safe.

Induction due to age is just crazy imvho (like cookie) but Caz is in a completely different situation. We're all individuals and I agree with MrsA about looking at whether advice is for you or a policy. Caz's advice on induction is obviously taylored to her specific situation and history whereas inducing based on age - blanket advice.

Don't forget, it's not that long ago that all women were given an episiotomy to help speed up delivery and widen the outlet for the baby. We now know that this is a major cause of prolapse and continence problems in post-menopausal woman. The experts aren't always right, it's good to question things even for your own peace of mind/understanding.

Sorry - that's not a rant at you btw Katie, just me on my soapbox too

On the subject of questioning things, is anyone having the GTT? My dad has type diabetes and my sister had GD so my mw wants to test me and I am booked to go in 4 weeks but I have done some research and I am questioning the test now. Perhaps need to speak to IM...

Welcome bron my advice would be to look after yourself too and to think about meeting other mums-to-be so that you have a ready-made community when you're on mat leave. I found it very isolating and it took time to get to know people once DD was here, I'd have liked the company earlier on I think.

It sounds like you had a good experience Tjuice - I am totally with you on the not wanting many visitors and the post-pregnancy wear. I found somewhere had a sale on bf clothes last week but I can't remember where. I shall post a link when I remember.

I have updated the stats for my change of EDD (October now but I'm staying here if thats ok?) and a yellow bump.

Where are these stats people speak of?

Just a quick message today :)

Poppet Well done speaking to your man about your worries and brilliant solutions, Your MiL sounds like a witch.

Crazy So sorry to hear about your troubles...what a hard time it must be for you. On a nice note you have the same EDD as me.

What is the stats page?

PMA today -

I loads of strawberries and a big old yoga session to look forward to...bring it on!

Pam there's a seperate stats thread somewhere on the antenatal club listing for us November gals.
I definitely hear the other side of the argument re induction and just getting baby home safe. My friend is still in hospital being monitored and has now hit 32 weeks I think. However can I recommend reflexology for those of a lentil weavery disposition who want to try something to avoid it. I had one session with DS and went into labour that night.
Finally dirge could you tell me more about the exercises to balance your uterus? I was a living breathing optimal positioning type last pregnancy with DS and still ended up an abject failure, don't laugh but I genuinely didn't lie or sit on a sofa, travel anywhere by car or sleep on anything but my left side for the last three WEEKS of pregnancy because I was so worried about DS going posterior due to me having an anterior placenta. What was I thinking of??? I sat on birthballs, and on tipped forward dining chairs, swam almost daily and pootled about on hands and knees for hours. In the end he was hauled out of the emergency exit after getting stuck with his head rammed sideways in my pelvis so left occipital anterior according to their official positions. I think some babies may actually need to go through part of labour posterior due to their size or the mum's weird pelvis shape and have vowed to spend my final weeks of this pregnancy in relative comfort because doing everything 'right' did bugger all to help us last time. But I'd be really interested in those exercises if you can enlighten me.

stats:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/antenatal_clubs/1157973-Nov11-Stats-only

not ignoring you poppet just info gathering for you!