Our safe haven thread for bereaved mums and anyone who has been affected by the bereavement of a child - whatever age,

[shabbapinkfrog]

The most supportive, loving, loyal thread on Mumsnet - I wouldn't know what to do without all of you x

Hi everyone - you have no idea how I have searched for this thread . I am very new to mumsnet and not used to navigating these boards - a lot of lovely people kept on telling me (on other threads) that I will find the most amazing group of mums on the 'bereaved mums' thread and by the looks of things, I have finally located all of you!

I have posted my thread on 3 different boards on mumsnet and I am not sure if you have perhaps seen it or not. I shall post it again here, if you don't mind (please forgive me if you have read it already ). Also, I don't know if I am supposed to start a new thread or whether I can just post it here. Any advice on when and where to post will be much appreciated .

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My baby daughter died 12 years ago from Bacterial Meningitis. After such a long time, I have reached a point where I can think about her, without feeling like I have physically been kicked in the stomach.

At the time of her death, everyone was obviously very supportive, but like most things in life, they have moved on - even my husband has.

No one even remembered or acknowledged the 1st anniversary of her death - not my own parents, siblings, friends or my husband.

I have to endure all her 'birthdays' and anniversaries of her death, alone. I am feeling resentful, because to them, it is almost as if she never existed - they don't talk about her at all (I realise that they probably want to spare me the pain), but I want to and need to talk about her. She was my first child (I've had 3 more children since) and I will NEVER get over what happened to her.

When I do remind someone that it is her birthday or the anniversary of her death, the most I get is a sympathetic look and I get the sense that they think 'oh my word, she died 10, 11, 12 years ago, shouldn't you have moved on by now?!'

On the occasions that I have tried to speak to my husband about her, he has told me to please not raise the subject, as it is too painful for him to deal with - he says that he has hidden that sadness far away in the corners of his mind - he acknowledges that it is unhealthy and that he should deal with his grief and that it might all come crashing back one day, but he is not ready for it yet - I respect his wish, but where does that leave me?

I have been to see a psychologist, but personally, I would much rather speak to someone who knew my daughter.

Has anyone had a similar response from their loved ones, if so, how did you deal with it?

Thank you.

Hi Nina.

So sorry to hear about your daughter, and so sorry we had to meet under these circumstances.

My ds died just over 2 years ago when he was 15mo. I still miss him like an ache, but like you it has got better.

Your husbands way of dealing with grief is quite a common one - especially in men(although like you I think it will come back and bite him in the bum) and I guess until he chooses to talk about your dd there's not much you can do.

We all deal with things differently. However do you have one friend or sibling who went through the loss of your dd with you? Can you make a point of forcing the issue and talking about your dd with them and to chat about shared precious memories? Explain to them how you need to talk to someone. Surely a friend will not deny you this? And if they do they are worrying more about their embarrassment than your well-being - which is just wrong.

I haven't come across this with friends yet but I wonder if it's because my loss is a lot newer than yours?

I know we didn't know your dd but please feel free to come here and chat about her anytime, we would love to hear about her

Nina, so glad you found us but wish we had met under different circumstances.

I was sad to read your story - I lost my twin boy in 1982 and my DS3 in 1992 so my grief is older - do you find that older grief bites you on the bum when you least expect it? Time does help - it kind of softens the edges but the longing to see our precious children just one more time never, ever goes.

We all help each other on here - we all have times when one of us is down and the others all come along and prop us up - its a comfy place to be - a non-judgemental place. Once again Im very glad you found us xxxx

Morning girls xx

Hi everyone,

First of all, I am sorry for invading this thread, as not only I have never lost a child, but I am not even a mum. But I read NinaJane's story on other thread and was wondering how she was doing. I also have a story that may strike a cord with her, so here it goes.

My paternal grandma is 99 years old. Until a year ago she was perfectly lucid, able to walk, a very dignified lady who would never let anyone see her unless she was wearing proper clothes and her hair was properly permed. She has been all her life an amazing human being and the column that holds the family together.

Unfortunately, during the latest year her health has plummeted, and she is now dying.

My grandma had 6 children. 5 of them are still alive today, three daughters and two sons. But she lost her little baby girl, Maria Elena, when she was just 17 days old. She died of some kind of pulmonary illness, one that would be easily cured today, but unfortunately, not back then.

The last time I saw my grandma, in May last year when she still had lucid moments, she told me once again about Maria Elena. My grandma's eyes sparkled when she described the wee baby's long, dark, curly eyelashes. The pain in her expression was palpable when she recalled the day when she was bathing her and she saw her bluish lips and fingernails. The despair and denial when the doctor told her "the only thing we can do now is pray". 70 years on, and she still loves her child and remembers her as vividly as when she was holding her in her arms.

She too had to endure her pain in loneliness, as her husband locked the pain within and refused to acknowledge his wife's suffering.

I do not have children myself, but thanks to my grandma I know that the pain of losing one never ends, but neither do the love and the memories of a beautiful and cherished child. Maria Elena is in my heart now as are my other aunties and uncles, and she will always be. As it should be.

Nina, I know that your Sydney will never leave you. Please never fail to talk about her and let everyone know about your wee girl. And thank you so much for sharing her with us.

Maria Elena has made me have a quiet cry this morning - thanks so much for sharing that story. Nothing can beat a Mums love for her children - can it? You are not invading the thread at all xx

Good morning, my daughter's name is/was (still struggling to say 'was') Sydney - she was my first baby.

She had to be delivered by emergency Cesarean, because of pregnancy complications, so she was 3.5 weeks premature.

Although the hospital she was born in was private, they were very strict, especially when it came to breastfeeding - they were almost like the Breastfeeding Gestapo! I was ready to feed her, but because she was premature, her sucking reflex hadn't properly developed, but there was no convincing the nursing staff.

I spent hours with a breast pump attached to my boobs, but because I was so anxious (being a first-time mom) hardly any milk came out. I begged the nursing staff to please give her some formula, but they said no, I just have to try harder. At one stage, I had 4 people (nurses) I didn't know, pulling and tugging at my nipples, squeezing them this way and that, with Sydney screaming blue murder at my breast, clutching at me and scratching me - I was convinced that she hated me.

I remember locking myself into the Ladies toilets, crying (by this time my boobs had become engorged) and refusing to come out. The nurses were knocking on the door, telling me to try just one more time!

I was meant to stay at the hospital for a week, but left after 5 days. When I got home, I immediately send my husband out to go buy some formula (Sydney had at this stage not had one proper feed - only the few drops of breast milk I managed to squeeze out every now and again). Even with the formula, she still didn't feed well, but I felt better, because I knew that she was at least getting something into her.

3 days later, I took her to the Well Baby Clinic (at the same hospital) and when they asked me if I was breastfeeding her, I lied and said yes - can you believe that the nurses actually 'high-fived' each other and said 'what did I tell you?!" Sydney had actually lost some weight, but I was told that this is normal in newborns.

The clinic visit was on a Monday and on the Tuesday, I asked my husband to buy an alarm clock, as I was exhausted and was scared that I would not wake up to feed Sydney (she never woke by herself for her feeds). Even though I set the alarm for 10pm, it never sounded and shortly after midnight I woke up with a fright and heard Sydney gurgling in her cot, next to my bed - I didn't want to wake my husband (by switching on the light), so I took her to another room - when I switched on the light, she was blue, her eyes were swollen shut from lack of oxygen and she was foaming at the mouth...

I just screamed - we bundled into the car and 1/2 way to the hospital, my husband passed out from shock behind the wheel - I was sitting with Sydney in the passenger seat and I managed to bring the car under control, stopped it, dragged by husband over to the passenger side, with Sydney now on the floor, at his feet and got us to the hospital, even though I did not have a driver's license.

At first the doctor said that he thinks that she has got pneumonia, but after some tests, which included a lumber puncture , he sat me down and told me that she has got Bacterial meningitis and that she is not going to make it - I remember listing to him telling me this and thinking 'how am I supposed to react?' I hardly recognised Sydney in the NICU, as she had a skullcap on and she was attached to so many tubes, almost every part of her little body had something on it.

Her little organs started packing up one by one at about midday and the doctor wanted to know if they can switch off her life support - we said no and at 3:15pm on 28 January 1998, she died.

What happened next, is something I will never understand or forgive myself for. When the doctor showed us the flat-line, to confirmed that she had died, all the nurses stood around staring at me and my husband, as if they were watching a sad movie - I wanted to scream at them to get the hell out and leave me alone with my child, but I didn't - instead, I leaned over the side of the cot (one of those high-tech ICU cot things) and tried to kiss her goodbye, but I could not reach her - I completely lost my temper and bashed the cot until the side panel crashed down (all this happened while the stupid doctor and nurses just stood there staring), I kissed her goodbye on her little cheek and me and my husband just stormed out of the hospital. While driving home, I couldn't cry, I could hardly breathe - I remember thinking that the doctor is going to phone any minute now and tell me that a miracle has happened and that she started breathing again - needless to say, that call never came.

I realise that I am not sticking to the topic about how to deal with the silence of my loved ones, but I just needed to speak about how she died.

Welcome Nina, sorry to hear about your daughter. My 2 year old son died last March very suddenly from an overwhelming virus. My husband's grief and reaction to Gregor's death is and has been very different to my own. I am working to what should have been his 3rd birthday at the start of march, his first anniversary in the middle of march then the date of his funeral on what will be one of his best wee pals 3rd birthdays.

I guess what i'm trying to say is that i have been propped up by many friends over the last ten months - mainly not my husband or parents or my brotherwho would seem the most obvious choices , and its not that they don't want to support me, at the moment they can't as they're dealing with their grief their way - so I agree with ILike's suggestion try to find a good friend who can share/talk/cry/laugh with you. At times we all have to be selfish, and by that i mean doing what we need to do for ourself. If you need to talk about your wee girl then pull on the help that could be there for you in the shape of a friend. But you also have to let your DH do things his way, and believe me i know how frustrating that can be to try and do.

If it's easier to write down then email/write to a few of your friends - you may be pleasantly surprised by their reaction.

aurynne - your story is a beautiful one, struck a huge cord with me and your grandma sounds like one truly amazing lady. You are not invading this thread at all. Maria is the name we had chosen had Gregor been a girl. xx

Oh Nina - I read your post manically - trying to cram it all into my mind. I had to go back and read slowly. I could feel the shock and anger in every word. That is the brilliant thing about this thread - meltdowns, rages, screams, tears and laughter are all 'allowed.' Somehow when I read about other losses it makes more sense out of mine IYKWIM. Im so sorry that you were treated the way you were when you had Sydney (I love that name) the medical profession has such a lot to learn. Whereabouts are you in the country? Im in the North West.

Im so very glad you found us - post whatever you want here - there will always be someone who can empathise and always someone who will know what you mean.

nina im so sorry,and again welcome i hope the girls here can help,its the best place to come,its been a lifesaver, i lost my grandson jayden to cot death december 2006,and the girls here have propped me up,
its hard to come to terms with losing a child,people expect you to move on,get over it etc especially since my granddaughter was born,but at times its so bloody hard.

Forever love - Josh Grobban

With many thanks to Lottie for introducing me to this beautiful song.

I know I have put this song on our threads many times - but it is so fitting to our circumstances - my boys will be my 'forever loves.'

Nina, I'm glad you found this thread and thank you for telling us about Sydney. You can post whatever you like whenever you like and nobody will ever judge you for it.
Your description of her in NICU and when she died really reasonates with me. During the night before L died, (she died 45 mins after her life support was removed in the morning ) the night staff were on who were just bloody insensitive and useless and just sat around staring at me. It was about 4am when I'd had enough and stormed out of PICU because I wanted to get away from being observed by them as if I was some interesting spectacle, but I didn't want to leave her. I disappeared for about 30 mins to cry with no-one watching me and then I returned. I was so surrounded by people I didn't speak to L during that night, because I didn't want anyone to listen to me and hear everything. Again, I wish I had now because I didn't have a chance afterwards. The day staff were brilliant but by the time they had come in she had just died.

Anyway see, I ramble nonsensically relatively often on here! My daughter died after she got hyper-acute liver failure at 11 months from a virus (she had a cold!), she had 2 liver transplants, was in a lot of pain for a couple of months with an open abdomen and was left brain damaged after her 2nd transplant, then deteriorated rapidly over a few days when she was only 2 weeks away from being discharged,and they didn't give her another liver, so she died from multiple organ failure.

These lovely ladies are the reason I joined MN and they alone have managed to keep me reasonably sane despite the horrific events of last year

Ramble over, if you would like to tell us Sydney's birthday and her 'remember day' we can add them to the list for you and we will all remember her with you

aurynne thanks for your story about Maria Elena, I will always love Lucia as everyone here will always love their LOs and it will never fade for us, it is nice that you know of her and she is still very much with your grandma in her thoughts, and nice to know she is just as much an auntie as your aunts and uncles that survived. I'm sorry about your grandma.

Ilike M is gorgeous looks like a little monkey in your pics! (not a real monkey of course )

tw glad your results were clear

che well done!

our other special song

Crossed posts with you earlier Nina - Like Shabs i was have read your story quite frantically - what a rollercoaster of emotions; and the rawness of your grief is definitely better out than in. What LunaticFringe said about being 'expected' to be grieving hit a chord with me too.

I've been busy busy last week putting plans in place for a walk in Gregor's memory at the end of march whilst at the same time raising some funds for the scottish cot death trust. Many hands make light work so much of the real work will be done by friends locally but i wanted my lovely friends here to know what i'm up to but don't want to appear to be looking for sponsorship if you know what i mean! Is it inappropriate to put a link to a justgiving site here which would let you all see his story and some pics? I'm not totally 'with it' with mumsnet rules and don't want to get folks backs up if this is a total 'no no'

aurynne - thank you for your concern and for telling us about little baby Maria Elena.

I'll never forget the first time I laughed out loud after Sydney's death - it felt like such a betrayal - I did not realise at the time that a person can be completely devastated and still find something funny at the same time. I didn't want to ever feel better or 'get over' Sydney's death - I was scared that I would forget things about her, if I did - but as your story about your gran has shown, one never forgets - not even after 70 years.

peterpansmum, I am sitting here, my fingers resting on the keyboard, thinking what I could possibly say to you, but words actually fail me...your little boy Gregor was 2 years old? I had only 10 days with Sydney and in many ways, I am grateful for that - there is only so much I can remember about her - I was exhausted and anxious most of the time, so I didn't 'store' 1/2 of my memories with her. I admire you so much - having to deal with 2 years' worth of memories, first smiles, first words, first steps, all the wonderful milestones.

My heart breaks for you and I wish you lots of strength and courage with the upcoming anniversary of his death.

shabbapinkfrog - unfortunately I do not live near any of you - I am writing all the way from Cape Town, South Africa .

LunaticFringe - I know what you mean when you say that people are still 'expecting' you to grieve - I too was afforded that period of grace and had the support of my friends (not my family - they practically ran away and hid ), but people seem to expect one to have moved on after a certain period of time, which is bizarre.

hazygirl - yes, it is strange how people expect one to 'be over' the death of a child, just because another one is born. I must just tell you about the absolute worst thing that someone said to me at Sydney's funeral - I was told: "Don't worry - next time it will be a boy."

Thank you Nina, that means a lot. In many some ways I do feel blessed and 'lucky' that i did have those 2 years as i've felt the bitter pain of many of the mums on here who would have, and still would, give anything to have all that i do have as memories. One of my absolute favourites is him and his big brother (who's 5 now) singing mama mia in the back of the car. DS1 would start and have gregor popping in with the 'my my' bit - hilarious and everytime i hear it now i'm choking back the tears of joy that i do have the memory but sadness that he's not here.

Your location doesn't stop us supporting each other - I'm in central scotland. Just know there are people here you can 'talk' to, let out what you need to let out, ask the crazy questions and chances are one or other of these amazing ladies will say to you 'that's normal' 'I've thought/felt that too'. I have some fab friends in real life but none of them can understand (thankfully) nor change the loneliness I have felt at times. The ladies here totally get it xx

peterpan mum please post a link im sure people will want to sponsor ,im doing mile in memory but in may,it fsid that put me in touch with mumsnet,thank god,if you go on gone too soon memorial site and put in jayden leeds you willl see his pics please look ,
good luck ,my biggest wish is cot death to end and become zero, nobody should have to say goodbye to their child

Hi girls - your stories are all so very moving and I wish all of you peace and the ability to move through the grief to a calmer place.

It's my darling Catriona's 10 year anniversary today - she was still born at 42 and a half weeks - we have no idea why as she was a perfect 8lb baby. They did a routine scan on the Tuesday which is when they discovered she had died .. so I was induced through the night and had her at 4.18pm the following day 2.2.2000.

Unfortunately the following year our little boy Andrew was also still born at 25 weeks on 10.5.2001 at 5.20pm

Luckily though we went on to have Roisin who is now a lovely strong healthy and funny 7 year old.

My thoughts are with you all and I'm off to light a candle for my darling Catriona now and another for all those who have experienced this most tragic of losses

Hiya Yeah - so sorry for your losses - so very sorry. I am lighting my candle now, here in Lancashire in honour and with love for your darling girl. Thinking of you today.

Nina - you may be in South Africa but you are in my living room on my computer screen, on a very special MN thread - all of you are xxxxx