Can we talk about widowed fathers, like if you mum died first? What's normal behaviour?

[PeaceLillyWhiteFlower]

My mum died two years ago, from cancer. Their marriage had often been fraught, but calmer in the last 20 odd years. At the very end there was bad blood between them.

Since she died my father has been pretty proactive about looking for another woman. A fair few dates. He seems to have settled on one.

He was always down on my mother, though utterly charming to the outside world. I have barely spoken to him for about a month. I've been raging to think of my mum six feet under while he sails of into the sunset with some woman a few years older than me.

The only person I can really talk to is my brother. He lives abroad with his family and is fairly detatched from it all.

What's normal here? It just looks like a huge pile of male effing entitlement to me.

I feel bad now as I may have misled you, I reacted sharply to whoever said, 'are you worried about the will', without even reading full thread. My Dad is lovely, I do love him. But I hate her (which I know makes me a terrible person, whatever, can't be helped). I do think he was silly for being flattered. And it really sucks that it was within a year or so. I think, how could he, so soon? I think am probably in a better position than you, I'm so sorry. I do have at least two good friends who are in the same boat as you, loss of respect for their Dad, loss of relationship really. I have no advice, but really feel for you, and really wish people who haven't been there would do one with their judgement. All the flowers to you and for your lovely Mum

@MissMarplesGoddaughter and @SpaceshiptoMars okay perhaps I will shelve my theory that this is an exclusively entitled baby boomer problem. It is a version of polygamous marriage. Bullying men throwing their weight around.

Back in the day it was inconceivable that a man could raise children so they were expected to find a step mother pronto.

I'm talking about older men.

DB calls it a late onset midlife crisis.

Thank you @honestogod I feel so alone with my anxiety. I'd love to discuss it with an older woman, one of mum's friends. But too ashamed by his callous behaviour.

Good that you have been able to maintain warm feelings for your father.

And yes this thread is getting long.

Jane Austen is worth reading. Many things do not change.

I think though, that you will only cause general offence if you persist in calling your Dad's behaviour 'infidelity' and 'polygamous marriage'. You cannot meet your father's need for companionship and connection - and however lovely and wonderful your Mum was, she cannot supply that from beyond the grave. It is very thin gruel to live on memories, whatever other people wish.

I agree with this.

I'm with a decent man, a really decent man. He just happens to be a widower. I'm not younger, either!

We're in our fifties, there's no way he would have any truck with anyone telling him who he can love and have in his life. It's not polyamory or infidelity, marriages are ended by death or divorce. Is your father supposed to wait until you find him someone that meets your approval? I understand you're finding it very difficult, but that is your own issue.

@BatshitCrazyWoman what offspring are there in your situation?

Some women, equals, I could just about stomach /handle but aspects of this one make me sick.

It's hard being alone. It gets harder the older you get. Would you rather your dad be alone and without company? Be happy for him. Let him find his happiness. And if you can't stand the thought of him being with another woman after your mum, then maybe bring him down to your house and you and your family can provide that company?

I suspect it's much easier for you and for him if he finds someone to share his life with.

Something else to consider. Attending and awaiting a death can leave you with profound traumatic stress. All good memories of your loved one can be blocked by this, sometimes for many years. The death and lead up cycle endlessly through your brain in not so glorious technicolour. Everything you saw them go through, you go through again, hundreds and hundreds of times.

You may get to the point where you run to a new relationship, just to block out the mental pain. It may not be a wise choice, but the instinct to run to youth, to avoid doing this all over again, may be very strong. @PeaceLillyWhiteFlower this may be where your Dad is. Cannot face watching another woman he loves go in such a fashion. Next time around, he wants to be the one to die first.

When the time does come for him to go, you may be very glad that another woman shoulders that burden instead of you.

My uncle was the same. His wife and apparent soulmate had only been gone a few months when another woman appeared on the scene. My cousins were distraught!

@Lulooo DB and I tried our hardest to look after him and keep him included.

@Goldencarp it is scary how fickle men are. There should be a public information campaign telling women to write a will that protects their children.

How did your cousins resolve it, if at all? Is the uncle still alive?

@SpaceshiptoMars do think I don't go over my mother's death again and again?

And why would I want an invading female to take my father off my hands?

And why does this oh so altruistic sympathy only apply to old men? Plenty of widowed women have to make do with the thin gruel of memories, augmented by friends, hobbies, community service and grandchildren.

My mum died 6 years ago they were most happily married for 40 years as far as I know he hasn't dated anyone since she passed. He is early 70s.
I think I would find it weird if her had another partner but it is his life and I live a couple of hundred miles away so don't see him a huge amount.

You may have down so, but there's a huge difference in the love and companionship that a partner offers compared to what you and your husband offer as daughter and son-in-law, especially if you say you're taking a months break from him. Who is he supposed to be with in the meantime?
Let him try to move on with his life, let him find his happiness and find company and solace in new relationships. If you love him, love that for him too. He's also had his grief to deal with and he deserves to be happy.

@PeaceLillyWhiteFlower I'm returning to this thread and just wanted to send you a virtual hug and some flowers, dont know how to do the emoji unfortunately.

They didn’t really. He got married and had a child. The child is 13 or 14 and my cousins are mid 50’s🙄

It is a different thing to have this torture when you have a husband and children to take your mind away at times. Still not easy, I know. But imagine being alone and not working and dealing with this. I was widowed, and speak from the heart here.

"Next time around, he wants to be the one to die first."

Think you nailed it @SpaceshiptoMars He went to the livestock auction and got a piece of meat to see him out. How that isn't male entitlement is beyond me.

@Goldencarp so potentially an uncle or aunt younger than its nephew nieces.

With reproductive technology there will be more and more of that. The donor egg scenario is one of my nightmares.

Thank you @Octopus37 !

I really do appreciate the patience of everyone who has listened to my howls of anguish.

I haven't really changed my mind on anything. In fact other people's stories have only opened my eyes to how entrenched male dominance is. Terrifying when you face up to it.

Taking two steps forward and one step back at the moment.

@Lulooo Do we all get what we deserve? My mother died a hideous death at a relatively young age. Did she somehow deserve that?

There are some women in the options appraisal that would only be 'Meh', not utterly sickening.

I do see where you're coming from OP. My dad genuinely mourned my mum and had no desire for a relationship with anyone else but he had also been a good husband. I remember well an uncle and aunt of mine where she complained quite a lot of his behaviour - low level for their generation, but of the always down the pub, expected all his meals cooked, never got her a birthday present sort of thing. He often dissolved into tears after her death about how much he missed her. I did think that he was on one level genuine and did miss her, but also that a lot of it had to do with his domestic comforts and that he hadn't exactly shown any appreciation for them when she was alive.

Still, I guess if he found another woman he'd have 'deserved happiness' too. I wonder if anyone doesn't deserve happiness? Levi Bellfield, probably, and even he has found someone to marry him. 🙄

@PeaceLillyWhiteFlower
My mother died a hideous death at a relatively young age. Did she somehow deserve that?

Did she send others to a hideous death? Of course not. Then, no, no and no.

Is this the overriding issue? Is the stuff with your Dad a way of unleashing your anger at the sheer unfairness of life, the universe and everything - but specifically how your Mum had to die? Because if it is, it's normal to be ridiculously, massively over the top angry when you lose your dearest person.

My story is similar in that my mother died young except that my father is now with somebody of my age. She is very ambitious with his money and bleeding him dry!
My siblings and I are all (almost but not quite) NC with him which is fine all round. There is no pain generated by this decision. It is a lot easier than having an active relationship full of dramas and mind games with two narcissistic lovebirds. It is easy to underestimate the power of the sexual bond. For an old codger, it has the power to trump relationships with his own children and grandchildren.
It is punishing to overthink it because there may not be a happy ending available. At that point, it is important to focus on emotional healthiness exclusively.

Hi OP, yes I have seen for myself that men often do move on sooner and don't always make the best choices early on (fear of being alone is not a good basis for a relationship, can often end up in relationships where man feels flattered by attention). I feel for you and am sorry for your loss.

This all said, I think that it isn't entirely fair to beat your dad up for his failings as a husband. You don't see all sides to a marriage. It must have been difficult for your dad too at the end with your mum mentally unravelling, him bearing a lot of the load of companionship towards the end with the pandemic not allowing visitors; I'm not sure that "just write her a love letter" was very fair on him. It sounds as if you are grieving the marriage that you wish your parents had had - as the live parent who is considering his dating options, it is easy to put that additional grief on your dad, but it isn't wholly fair. It also sounds as if you are very insecure about your relationship with your dad - him not being consumed with grandparental interest is a rejection of you, as is him not wanting to make you happy above trying to work out what his independent life should look like. Maybe you need some counselling and also to have a softer conversation with your dad where you seek reassurance about your own relationship with him and encourage him to take his time. Ultimately, your overreaction and cutting him out will just increase his need for a companion to cling to.