Misty breeze wraps about my shoulders, thinly clad. I shiver not, despite the coolness on my skin. Comfort, I now feel. Is it you my precious Angel?

[chipmonkey]

Starting a new thread for our angel babies
Sylvie-Rose 16/8/11 to 4/10/11 too short my love, too short.

The stars are not wanted now: put out every one;
Pack up the moon and dismantle the sun;
Pour away the ocean and sweep up the wood.
For nothing now can ever come to any good.

This is how I feel but especially at Christmas time!

The night was dark when she went away, and the slept.
The night is dark now, and I call for her, "Come back, my
darling; the world is asleep; and no one would know, if you came
for a moment while stars are gazing at stars."
She went away when the trees were in bud and the spring was
young.
Now the flowers are in high bloom and I call, "Come back, my
darling. The children gather and scatter flowers in reckless sport.
And if you come and take one little blossom no one will miss it."
Those that used to play are playing still, so spendthrift is
life.
I listen to their chatter and call, "Come back, my darling,
for mother's heart is full to the brim with love, and if you come
to snatch only one little kiss from her no one will grudge it."

cafe, that one always makes me cry.

I'm still waiting for the stone sample for her headstone. They can't get "rose white granite" so they are ordering a sample of "pearl white granite" instead. Why didn't I start this six months ago? I had no idea it would take this long!

chip and the rest of you ladies, how much can one expect to pay for a grave? I want one, but I don't at the same time. It confirms he is dead. We are also very short of money. There are plaques in a wooded area in the cemetary, and DS loved the woods, but the plaques are just a bit crappy and sad-looking. The council could have tried a lot harder.

My DD's dad died over 20 years ago and there is no grave for him as his family did not want one. I always feel sad about that as DD has no memory of her dad and nowhere to go to think about him and his life.

SaintVera, I'm in Ireland so don't know how much costs are different from the UK. We are "lucky" that we live in the country. Our plot cost ?400 but I think they are much more expensive in Dublin. I am also not sure if the priest gave us a discount because she was a baby. We do have a double plot and dh and I will also be buried there.
Then there's the headstone and surround. I ended up looking on a lot of UK websites for headstones, trying to find the right stone and they seem to vary from around £500 to £1000 for the headstone, if you have kerbing around it it will cost more. But you can wait a while for a headstone.
Personally I like having somewhere to visit. But some of the ladies here have had their dc's cremated and that can also have an advantage in that you can move house and bring their ashes with you. I do feel now that I can never move from this village because she's buried here. Even though I don't actually believe the dead hang around their graves! I didn't really consider cremation but mainly because it's hardly ever done in Ireland.
Another thing I have seen is woodland burial. There are a few places in the UK where you can do this. There will be just a wooden cross at the spot, no headstones allowed and flowers, etc will be allowed to grow over the spot. I kind of like the idea but I prefer having a headstone as a permanent tribute to her.
It's so hard, isn't it? And the trouble is that the time when you have to make the decision is when you're in the throes of early, raw grief. At the time, I really felt like I was in the middle of a nightmare and pretty much just did what people told me to do.

thanks so much chip. DS was cremated so we have his ashes. Like all his things, they are in his room, waiting for us to do something - what? - with them.

I sense I am doing the opposite to you - leaving it so long that I have become paralysed with indecision about a memorial to DS.

My younger DS says he wants a grave in our back yard (12ft by 6ft). I thought I might try and get a beautiful, rounded stone engraved with DS's name on it and we can take it with us wherever we go, and even take it indoors for a cuddle...

I know what you mean by wanting a permanent tribute. I do want his name on whatever memorial we get. I want people to see his name and know his name and I need to keep seeing his name. I also want the wording to say to the world just how much his mum and dad loved him

SaintVera, one thing I am doing is I am going to plant a little tree in the front garden and my sister has made a stone with her name on it to put under the tree.
I actually planted the tree already but then dh's nephew ran over it accidentally with the lawnmower! So when we replace it there will be a proper little surround so that can't happen again!

cafecito Mon 17-Dec-12 02:54:54

That about sums it up for me.

chip, Aillidh's is called ruby red granite, but it's really pink. We hadn't been to see her in about a month and saw her today, and it looked so forlorn, with just the wee cross (even though I don't believe in Christianity anymore). The stone will be up for Spring and a bit chaotic, with the two wreaths and two cuddlies and little stones. It'll look better with the stone and kerb set for ornaments.

I see the graves of other children, though, some neglected, though they died in the 90s. I wonder if perhaps it's too much for their parents to visit anymore, perhaps they moved away, perhaps they died elsewhere. I concluded, that I won't care if hers is as long as I am there with her. I hope one day it's entirely neglected, because she and I will have gone on.

In the next row is that of a 43-year-old woman. I guess she had no children as there is just a wee marker and 'Daughter and Sister'. But no one's come to see Winnie in a long time, though she died less than 20 years ago.

I wonder about peoples' lives. Not the old ones, with grandparent/great-grandparent or mother/father, or with elderly ages on them. But about the young ones, the middle aged ones, with no 'father/mother' on them. And how there are often no fresh flowers.

And I think, 'What the fuck is the point of all this?' I see her and all I remember is that she is dead. But right now, I can't think of anything else.

We were three friends tonight, all of whom lost their children young. I was telling one father of the photo cafe received (not mentioning any names or anything, not that he even knows whata MN is) and he said, 'Yes, that stings horribly, when you're not expecting to see a photo of them and someone posts it to you or puts it on Facebook or emails it to you and you open it up and you're like, 'Oh, shit! R died!' (their son had Pontine's glioma and experienced slow brain degeneration). He said he's okay with all the photos that are up in their home of them, because they are familiar, many up before he died, but he can't voluntarily see others, or videos, or he will lose the plot.

I'm like that. DH can see videos of Aillidh every day, and photos, but I find it hard. I hope that might improve with time, but then again, I know that woman from A's unit who still can't bring herself to look at videos or photos of her other son who died in that RTA 13-odd years ago, and that other woman who can't bear to visit her son's grave 16-odd years on.

I shared this on my FB, but those who aren't on mine, Aillidh's will look like the first and second from the left on the second row of Page 4 of this gallery, but pink with just the lighter stone colour for the roses:

Aillidhs stone

I feel compelled to go to her grave. I feel compelled to have it like a little shrine. I am not sure that it does me any good. I walk away thinking "my daughter is dead" And I think, in a circular fashion of all the people whose daughters are alive and why mine was chosen to die.
Mostly I go in the dark. Which is probably why it looks better in the dark. I am careful to always have at least one candle lit, at least some solar lights on, some candles which run on batteries so that it's never, ever left in total darkness.
Her Christmas tree is there now, it has pink tinsel, pink lights, pink baubles and a pink star. I love pink but the boys react to it like vampires to garlic! It should be pink dresses, pink plastic tatty toys, a pink and green bedroom, like I planned.
Of course, she may have ended up being a butch, feminist. black-clothed goth and might have eventually said "Seriously? you expect me to go around with a name like Sylvie-Rose? Nah, tomorrow I'm changing by deed-poll and I'm going to be called Gladys!" or maybe she'd have loved it.
But I will never know. I can only guess. She was robbed of the right to rebel.

I think if we lived closer to where she's buried, chip, I'd be the same. We buried her where we did because we know where we live on is a dead end. No one stays. There's so very little work and it's so isolated and expensive to access.

The writing's on the wall for us, even. We'll have to move, next year, either to Glasgow where she is or back to Edinburgh, which is still closer than we are now. We have to consider Edinburgh, where she and her sister were born and where she lived the first 4 years of her life, because it's the only place where we might get an assured tenancy, via the Church of Scotland. Well, I can think of far worse places, like cafe, I'm sundamaged from years close enough to Mexico, too.

And yes, robbed. That's what we all are. Whatever they may have become is just a mave have.

My Scottish Helen, that's the meaning of her name, died at 9 and will never, ever be anything but 9, and a 9-year-old girl who was so ill at her birthday that she was dying, unable to play with her toys or enjoy the special privilege of having her siblings visit her. She was a foot in wherever it was she went to, but wherever it is, it's not here.

Oh, expat! I so very nearly moved to Edinburgh! I was offered a job there years ago. I would have gone in a heartbeat, but dh wasn't keen as he had good prospects here and from a financial point of view, he turned out to be right. But I still dream of living in the city with the castle on the hill!

Her stone will be beautiful expat. The pink granite and the orange ribbon. So beautiful.

Sylvie-Rose has a white cross. The Done Thing. The inscription is not true. It says "Born an angel". She was not born an angel. She was born a person. is she an angel now? The word "angel" means "messenger from God". She was some kind of messenger. I should have known. One of the doctors, when she was alive, said that every time they passed by her incubator, they stopped short and gasped at her beauty. Her blue eyes were piercing. The nurses were asked by a photographer to nominate a baby to appear in a leaflet about premature babies. They nominated Sylvie-Rose. Because she was captivating.

And with all that, I thought I would walk out of hospital with her and live happily ever after? I was a fool. She was born to be an angel. A messenger from God. Still trying to figure out what the message was.

Oh dear, drinking and posting. There should be a law against it.

I have been 'guilty' of that many times!!

hi guys, been avioding this thread for a few days, after finishing thta study i needed a break, thanks for the congratultions, for me it was a really big deal, but i'm glad ive done it, i really had to get it finished befire christmas i couldnt bear to start the new year doing that
not that the daye on the calender really changes a thing

myfive congratulations on your lovely news its understandable you feel mixed up, its alot of complex emotions going on and hormones, me and dh are thinking of trying for a baby in the new year, well dh said this cycle, but i keep thinking no don't try until next year, then i think, well if we try in the new year, i'll still really be on a 2012 cycle...
its so weird my thinking, but i lost ds' twin in 2011, so really can't see what a difference the date on the calender means, i just get fixated on mental dtuff i guess

we went to a sand christmas tree service at the weekend, that was a heartbreaker, parents reading poems and letters, there was over 400 people, every family put a special decoration on the tree
there was carols and prayers
it was good just to feel normal for a short while among people in the same shitty boat
and good to have that headspace to indulge in thinking about ds only for that short time, and forget about wearing the mask

i just keep hearing christmas songs so differently now

say east 17's stay another day, i just hear the words, i've only just begun to know you,,,, wjy wont you stay just for one more day, and my eyes fill.

and other songs like when a child is born

the world, my world has changed forever now really, the lights in the tree seem duller, dd is only 5 and this really should be the year where christmas is just magical they way other people talk about it, butnow its just something i'm lookiing forward to being over, i will do my best to put on a smile and try to make thing s really nice for dd.
i feel guilty for feeling so sad
just don't want her to be damaged by all this
perhaps it won;t damage her, but make her a more compassionate person, thats what i hope

think my over riding feeling is lost, like i'm roaming around lost

still fiinding concentrating very difficult
and have to try really hard to focus to complete a task, still have christmas cards to write shopping to do and gifts to wrap
i don't know what others manage when they have jobs etc
was cleaning like a crazy person today, sobbing to sad music i was putting on

i dont know the point to this post really, just wanted to say hi, and say i'm thinking of you all and still reading

one thing i was going to ask, was, i always put fresh flowers at ds' grave, i will change the ones i put down this mon, at the weekend for some extra special christmas ones, and the ones i put down on mon, simple carnations, they will probably have at least another week left in them, would it be ok to put them on one of the graves that don't get visiyted, or would it be best to not interfer i suppose, if there was flowers on ds grave that i didnt know who had put them there it would drive me mad not knowing who had done it, what do you think, is it best not to?

Orchid - I would share them around for people who have none. I know that my Mum does that. My sons grave get the new flowers....then a few on my Gran & Grandads next door to my sons, then Mum wanders around and puts the ones that are still fresh on other folks graves xx

Shabs perhaps I will then x

That is a lovely idea but do be careful! My Mum thought my Dad might have had another woman when some kind soul put flowers on his grave. Turned out to be a nice elderly neighbour!

it's 5am... cafe's wide awake... no sleeeep at aaalllll

expat, Aillidh's stone will be beautiful. I have never seen a design like that, just perfect. I did think about it a few years ago, but right now DD only has a horrible wooden cross and it's all messy I would like a really light marble and I like roses, hearts, stars, butterflies. Sounds cheesy but they all make me think of her. I'd like a heart shape I think maybe, or a rounded edged kind of plain thing but with extra bits to it, like those flowers. I wrote the perfect inscription for it (again, maybe 3 years ago now) I don't know where I put it, and you now when you get something just right...I now I won't be able to do that again, it had me in tears, but it was right.

hi orchid :) lost is something I still feel if I ever feel anything. Lost is about it, your whole life implodes, what are you who are you and why are you here and why did all of that happen and how and no it can't have.

do you feel ready to ttc? (sorry if that's too personal) I only ask because, I had DS less than 9 months after DD died. I am so glad I had him. But it was not the right timing. I never grieved her loss, in a way. I couldn't because I was pregnant and then wham, baby, reality sets in, it's a blur. I missed basically all his childhood through being so depressed and going back to work as soon as possible. I buried all the DD feelings as soon as I found out I was pregnant, but they resurface now and then and I realise I never tackled them before.

I would say though there is never a right or wrong time, really, just when you feel it's okay and it's your decision.

cafe, I think I'm going to refer to you as the Late Night cafe!
Sylvie-Rose's grave is never as tidy as it ought to be. I have lots of "stuff" on it but am not very good at edging it and weeding.

Sylvie-Rose's stone will simply say "Too beautiful for Earth"
There is a poem which says
"An angel in the book of life wrote down our baby's birth
And whispered as she closed the book
'Too Beautiful for Earth'"
And I liked the sentiment but the whole thing seemed too much, everything that needed to be said was in the last line.

We don't have a grave to visit. James was cremated and we scattered his ashes into the sea. (My OH is hindu and it was important to him to give James the right ceremony)

It was the perfect thing to do for James, he hated the thought of burial and he loved the sea, we scattered his ashes in Brighton, which was his favourite place to go.

But, it means that we have nowhere to go to be with him, we live very far from Brighton and it isn't somewhere to just pop down to, although James has lots of friends in Brighton so they go down to the beach quite often.

I wish that I had somewhere physically to be with him, I wish I had kept his ashes for longer. I feel like I have lost my final link with him.

My sons headstone gives the details and then it says 'Only a whisper away.'

But if James loved freedom, and would have wanted his ashes to be scattered, then holding on to them wouldn't have been the right thing to do either, MumOf. And of course it's all symbolic. I think Sylvie-Rose is never far from me. This was her home. She's not really buried in her grave, it's a garden of remembrance, really.
I go there more, I think because dh keeps promising to put together the dresser we're going to display her stuff on but never actually gets round to it. I suppose if I were a proper feminist, I'd do it myself!