In memory of my beloved Fraser and all our children.Little buds sown on earth to bloom in heaven

[frasersmummy]

A new haven for us all to say exactly what is in our heart or on our minds knowing that everyone understands and wont judge

Already did Sassy. I'm not as gung-ho as you but I don't like to hide away either!

The reason I'm not gung ho is that I don't like being set upon by faceless keyboarders determined to find the holes in whatever I have to say. It disturbs my equilibrium, which is fragile nowadays. Same reason I'm not on Facebook really - I can't take the heat so I (mostly) stay out of the kitchens.

Changing the subject, did anyone here find that after their loss their ability to maintain an even temper was seriously compromised? I seem to have a constant mental undercurrent of thinking "fuck you, you stupid fucking..." etc etc about all sorts of people. Am worried it's going to start coming out of my mouth one day soon. This happens when I'm not cross about any particular thing. It's as though I'm on a hair trigger. Very uncomfortable.

Sassy , you are right and she is lovely too As I am sure you have realised . I reakised that you must have met as I noticed you were a friend of hers now on Facebook but I didn't know if I should say anything (plonk)

My stupid bloody computer just decided to turn itself off after I had tried to post on the stupid thread in question .

Evening all...

[Shock] at that horrid thread. Hugs to Shab

In the middle of cooking tea, but will catch up properly later on.

Horrid, horrid thread...

TW yes - she only lives about 20 minutes away from me... small, small world...

shabs, big hugs and another one here who is going to get helmets for grandkids,as they dont have yet, i was stupid enough to think ok if they dont go fast, cos god forbid anything happened to girlsx thanksx

Hi again,

Cannot believe that thread. Well done Sassy - excellent post.

Well we've had on the whole a peaceful few days. DH was a sweetheart yesterday and sent me a message late morning telling me to "Do my hair up nice and wear something pretty by 3" because he was taking me out. He took me to Cardiff Bay, had a lovely walk in the sunshine and wined and dined me in an expensive restaurant. Conversation naturally goes towards Belle though - and it still brings teary eyes, no matter where we are - I'm sure people must look at us and thinking whats up with those two.

A less peaceful episode was being asked to be Godparents to DHs friends new baby... knowing friend like we do, we both know he would've thought long and hard before asking us, and his heart would've been in the right place - best of intentions and trying to be kind. DH got VERY upset. (I surprisingly took it well and calmed DH down into seeing it for the intention is was being asked in...)

I'm sure we'll accept the offer, because I wholeheartedly believe friend was trying his best in his own way and not being dumb and insensitive.... Its still hard though, its their 5th baby between them (2nd together) and we haven't even got our one... and we haven't mustered up the courage to go and see the baby with the present yet.... we'll have to go in the next couple of days.

What do I say when friend asks if I want a hold? I know I won't... My baby was the last one I held, and I really want to keep it that way... I'm gunna look awful, rude and mean aren't I... especially if we're going to be Godparents.... Ahhh - holding a baby is going to be such a massive step.

dee - wishing you strength for coming week and Thursday.

Going to church again tomorrow - same one as last week.

Can i share something with you?

My Aunt had a little boy, Douglas, nine months before i was born. He was born still. My mother regaled me with the tales of how when she first brought me home from hospital everyone came to see us, and i was being handed round, a bit like pass the parcel, but everytime i was due to be handed to my Aunt, they would pass me to the person next to her, missing her out completely. My mother clocked what was happening, picked me up and thrust me at her telling her that she'd have to hold me eventually as she was my godmother.

I still haven't figured out if my mother was being incredibly insensitive or not.

May sound strange, but i always felt somewhat guilty for being my aunts godchild. I felt like i was rubbing the fact that Douglas wasn't here in, if that makes sense. It was only when Ciaran died that i got it. Of course she didn't begrudge me, she was just incredibly sad for what she didn't have.

I'm not exactly sure what i'm trying to say, but i think it's that you have to do what feels right for you - if you don't feel ready for it, then that's fine, but don't let anyone make you feel like you should be doing something.

((hugs))

zeno you can see how cross I am on here... I am permanently grumpy... and I worry a lot about being unreasonable. Ir ia hard I think, because we have no real peer group to judge our behaviour against. I know we have each other.... but we are all at different stages and tackling quite different grief...

I think my anger surfaces because people are so aggressive to bereaved parents. They don't like me because I remind them their child might die (I don't mean I say it - but just by existing). They don't like me becasue they don't know what to say, and bereaved people are boring and embarassing and people would rather do something nice.

Whenever I complain about how I am treated - eg ignored at work, for example - I always get a chorus of excuses to justify my workmates behaviour. The other day someone told me I should "Thank God" that I have a friend who does actually listen to me and doesnt' run away. Whilst I am very grateful for her support - I am a loss as to why I should feel grateful that someone continues to allow me to sip tea in their house, despite my social faux pas of allowing my DD to die.

I haven't punched anyone yet - but I am considering it...

shabs This may sound like bullshit bit it is honestly the truth. Today we went to Devon and took our gandchildren out to Tiverton canal for a trip on the horse-drawn barge, lovely afternoon. Took them back home and youngest told us his bike had a puncture. Grandad said he would sort it. Then grandson told us that some horrid kid had taken his helmet and thrown it in the bushes and he couldn't find it. The first thing I thought of was you. While husband was trying to sort out puncture (without much luck) I was trying to work out the quickest way to get a helmet to him. Husband could not sort the puncture, mother will need to sort it out on Monday (relief!) Then knock on the door grandson's friend had found the helmet. I was so relieved. ~That is the honest truth. When we came home I logged on here and I cannot believe what I was reading. It is so wierd. It looks like I am making this up but I am honestly not. I totally agree with you, what is the problem with insisting that children wear helmets, I just don't 'get it'. I don't think that children should have the choice where their safety is concerned. Should we allow them to cross the road before the 'green man' appears because they don't think it matters?

Thank you my dear friends for your support. Lavendes....I dont know what to say except I appreciate your words. xxxxx

Morning all xx

Morning girls xx

Mornin folks x

LF the equating of loss is peculiar thing.

My Mum, MIL and I have each lost a child but all at different ages. MIL'a a few days old, Mum's age 32, mine just turned 4.

There is very little overlap in the way we have experienced our losses. None of us has ever said to the others "I know how you feel".

I used to get very cross in the early months with people who had lost adult children speaking to us as though they knew what was going on for us. It frustrates me still that there isn't a dedicated support organisation for those who have lost a child in childhood, not a baby, not a grownup, but a child.

Morning ladies xx I have had a look at the bike helmet thread and i feel very very and at some folks even having to ask the question - It's a fecking no brainer - no helmet, no bike end of. Shabs I just want to hug you xx

I can't remember if i mentioned the reason i was over in Finland recently was to be Godmother to my cousin's third boy. I was soooo emotional and it meant such a lot to me that he'd asked me. I had only held one other baby before i went there and my cousin wasn't even aware of this so I was nervous about a whole load of stuff before i went but i'm really glad i did go. As part of the ceremony i read a passage about children being welcome to the kingdon of heaven and i lost it a little bit at that point but recovered enough to keep reading. If i'd been asked 6 or even 3 months ago I doubt if i would have gone, because i really wasn't ready. Caz do what you're ready and able to do is my advice... I have realised over time that the problem isn't with the babies/toddlers - for me any uncomfortableness sits with the adults in question!! And I'm sure if you've got the sort of relationship with the parents that you can be honest about the things that are difficult then they'll respect this - they will have no idea about what will be difficult and why unless you tell them. xx

Thanks PPM - I am fine, honestly I am. xxx

I hope you are ok too Shabs. It depresses me that people are so heartless and dismissive. I thought we were all very brave to go and make our voices heard though... I am really fucked off with being invisible.

Zeno I sort of agree with what you're saying. Your experiences are so close to mine - our daughters were within a couple of months of each other when they died, and it was similar circumstances - the suddenness - the unbelievable nature of it all. You wrote a while ago that your daughter's heart stopped beating at 4am - and when I read it, it was like being sucked down a tunnel back to the moment of Catehrine's dead. Just wanted to jump down the computer to you and tell you I knew how you felt - but ended up so emotional, I just couldn't respond to you at all I could read your posts all day - cos you seem to totally get how I feel and what is difficult for me.

If there was an organisation just for people who lost children though, I don't know how it could be practical. There isn't a TCF at all in Edinburgh - even though it is a reasonably sized city. Losing a child is actually quite rare - most deaths are babies under 1 - or post 16.

I think I do probably do find a wider group of people help. I have made a lovely real-life friend who lost her 20 yr old in very different circumstances - I just think the comfort of having a real person and the closeness of our DC's grave makes the link close. lunatic is also a great support to me, because she knows what's it like to be A, B and C (ancient, bereaved and ttc).

I can understand how different it is to lose a child rather than a grown son as I have. I know how I feel ripped apart and devastated, but Richard did not live with us, I cannot imagine how I would have coped if he was a child. I do not have his bedroom, toys, clothes etc, I did not take him to school. My day to day life is much the same, my life was not revolving around him. I do not have other children to look after and help with their grief. I know how awful it is for me but it is different for you and I want you all to know that I do understand that. xx

I hear you Sassy - sometimes I can't frame a response to your posts because they resonate too strongly.

I think my beef with some people is their presumption in saying "I know how this is for you". I think unprintable thoughts and rant at them in my head. Thinking about it now I realise that the vast majority don't and wouldn't say that; perhaps I was unlucky in encountering a few of the ones who do very early in our grieving. You're right that one can connect with all sorts of other people for all sorts of reasons.

I do think a specific organisation could work. SUDC is based in the US and only aimed at sudden and unexplained death in a child between 1 and 16. They connect families from all over the world to share in their very unusual experience. They were massively helpful to me, being the only route we could find for communicating with other families who had lost a young child and/or had another baby very close to that time. We needed to hear their tales of loss and survival, to know that we could make it through, even with not knowing (at that time) why dd had died. We had no face to face contact at all but that didn't matter.

Actually, as I write I'm realising how strongly I feel about this. We struggled to find appropriate support and were lucky to get pointed towards SUDC. It's not a time when you ought to be scratching around searching for help.

Actually, I think you are right - you can connect with other people whose experience resonate with yours, but it is something other, something much more, to find people who exactly understand.

For me, the important elements of my experience are Catherine being a person - with a personality - who was embedded in and was a huge part of my life - in fact all the important bits of it. I really miss her. I feel aggrieved for the loss of her life, because I know how pissed off she would have been to be dead. And it especially hurts that given she was really here, she existed that so many other people seem to be ignoring that fact now.

The other element for me is suddenly not being a parent any more. I was one and now I am not. But I can't be unmothered - it's not like I don't know what it is like to be a mother. I have heard people use the expression childless parent - but I have never met or spoke to someone in that position. I have no role - it's like my whole was stolen with my daughter. And then there is my age and the implications for having another child... just having another child is huge - as you say... and I have that, but also don't know if I even have that option.

I had a long convo last night on fb with a nice mum who'd lost her son the week before Catherine - and that was really helpful, because we're sort of at the same stage.

You are right - it wouldn't need to be real life - it would be just amazing to connect with someone who faced the same problems as me.

I do feel very alone. I come in here sometimes, and people are chatting about their DCs or gran kids or whether to decide to have a baby next year... and I feel so utterly alone.. sometimes it is just all too much.

The problem is - there's a lack of even basic support.... if we wanted really targetted support, not sure how it would be best to get it... Perhaps we could start a facebook group for parents who had lost DCs suddenly I suppose...

Hello all , my stupid comp turned itself off again last night , I am getting really fed up with it . I could really do with buying another . Maybe I should get a lottery ticket .

sassy I am so sorry you feel so alone. I cannot put myself in your place but I wish I could hep you. I will search the internet and if if I find anything I will let you know. xx

sassy have yu found this site connect.legacy.com/group/lossofachild/forum/topic/show?id...
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You may have seen it already. I would be interested in facebook site for people who have lost a child suddenly. I only joined facebook so I xould read Richard's tributes, Could I add you as a friend?