The boys are pissing me off

[FabIsGoingToGetFit]

I am trying to ignore them and not interact with them.

Keep me occupied before I knock his fucking head off.

Whoever said that half term has got something to do with it I think is right

Unfortunately DS is not back at school tomorrow as its teacher training so I have one more day left....

I'm sorry about your nana, fab. Grief is a hard thing

A way down the thread someone mooted the idea of a parenting course. I know that sounds scary but I do think you are at the point where you need more structured professional guidance.

I can understand MIL wanting to keep out of it as she probably feels to close to home and doesn't want to a) tell you what to do and then b) perhaps have to tell you some uncomfortable things that she feels will affect your relationship as DIL/MIL or, if her advice then makes things worse have you blame her for that.

Fab, if you are fucking things up, so am I mate.

I had a horrible day with DCs yesterday. The house seemed full of negativity and agression.

My 16 year old can only communicate with my 7 year old (SN) through the language of Shout.

2 year old is at the stage where his answer to any problem is to open his gob and howl very loudly (he does this 15 times a day at least)

7 year old is well just his crazy little self.

Thank God for my sweet little baby (9 weeks).

But they were all like him to start with

I have told MIL I do want her to tell me what to do as I am stuck but she just says what works for one person won't work for someone else.

I have loads of parenting books. Need to read some of them.

I can't face a course. I just pass out at the thought of having to be with strangers.

maybe there's something one amore one to one basis on the parenting course front ? I don't know, I've never looked into it, I might be barking up the impossible dream tree

Am I missing something? What have you done wrong to get you here? You need to decide I guess on an action plan. And stick to it. I know it's easy to 'forgive' them when they promise to be good - I get sucked in every time DS promises this, promises that - you need to have it in your head how many chnaces they get and what happens. I let DS watch some extra TV because he was being good, then agreed to let him have his slice of cake if he went to bed after the programme. He had the cake, programme finished then he still had a strop about it! If they are killing eachother, they do not play together. Then give them a chance, then split them again. Then if they promise etc. etc. they will be good, say OK but you play on your own, nicely for 30 mins/hour or something then if you are good you can play together. Then after that it's 2 hours/until the next day or something apart. I don't know exactly, whatever would work for you. But once you decide no matter how sorry they seem, how much you believe they will be good say" ok, I understand you are sorry, that's great, but you were warned if you hit your brother/sister again then this would happen and that's the bottom line". Obviously some sibling fighting is noraml and I would ignore but they are testing boundaries and the fairest and best thing is if they are set, in stone. It'll be horrible at first no doubt, when you think they are really sorry and you 'give in' then they do it all again etc., which is why I think the kindest way long term is do not deviate from The Plan. They know what their warnings will mean then, what the next stage is. My 2 are only 4 and 22mo and yesterday I called DH crying because they had taken over . Don't be too hard on yourself, eh? Getting the balance right between being nice and firm but fair without feeling like you are a bossy shouty parent is hard.

The best books I found were 'How to Talk...' - an old chestnut but still a useful start.

And one called 'Positive Parenting' by Elizabeth Hartley-Brewer.

Something more is needed than coming here to vent and having your actions and expressions of negativity corroborrated - I do feel for you but banishing kids to bed in anger without actually sorting anything out is only storing up more of the same at a later date.

You can be in charge, your children can feel safe with you in control, and you can have relax - but more of the same will just get the same result.

I have both of those books. What I haven't had is time to properly read them but I will do that tomorrow.

What I did wrong was let ds1 off when he cried from aged 2 as I didn't want him to cry. I had a really shite childhood and just wanted my child to have a good one. Didn't seem to matter as only having him. Now have 3 kids.

I just want to cry as I know I have failed tonight but they are in bed so don't want to drag it up again.

New day tomorrow.

Feel so low. Things are getting to me.

Feel lonely.

Fab I hope you can get a good night's sleep and wake up tomorrow with a fresh head and a plan.

Thinking of you, chaos.

Thanks chaos. I went to bed early and read as much of the playtime parenting as I could and made notes.

Cool off
Make a connection (I put cuddle as I couldn't fully get what it meant)
Have a meeting on the sofa.
Prevent instead of punish.
Set clear limits.
Light touch, not hammer.

Within 10 minutes of DH leaving for work ds2 and dd were throwing things at each other and ds1 was not doing as I asked. I carried on what I was doing (cool off) and then separated them. After a couple of minutes I called them down and said we were having a meeting on the sofa. I talked to each one about what they had done and asked them why. I then said I was going to peg out the washing and wanted them to be cuddling when I got back. I left and they were laughing about me wanting them to cuddle.

I had a quick word with ds1 before he went into school saying he wasn't doing very well this morning, made mummy upset and ould he tried harder. he said yes.

Didn't do the last 3 but I feel I did better
than last night.

When I rang DH ti tell him he said no computer for them all week but I pointed out it is easier for him as he only sees them for a short time before bed and sometimes letting them go on it is the only thing to get some space to do things.

Stupid thing it I can't wait to see them.

Sounds like you did really well not to do what you normally would have - and don't worry if you don't see immediate angelic behaviour, they'll actually test you for a while to see if things really have changed.
But if you keep your eye on a peaceful future before exploding it might get you through.
One point: no need to directly refer to past behaviour - once it's over and dealt with it's over, the implication always being that you expect a level of behaviour without having to spell it out.
Best.

That's a good point. Thank you.

Clear set of rules ie no violent fighting, no swearing, no taking each other toys without asking first, making their own beds, helping clear up after dinner etc etc whatever your rules might be. Make them very clear, maybe write them down, put them up in the kitchen.

If they do not comply, they have to be punished.

If you just say, for example, no DS, but they are allowed to watch tv, then it is not a punishment. No ds, no computer, no tv, take away books, magazines whatever they might want to read/play with from their rooms. Send them to their bedrooms. No dessert etc. For as long as necessary. I bet if they will consistently get sent, separately, to their rooms, with nothing to do, for, say entire afternoon,they will think twice next time (it will take a few times for them to realise you mean business).

It isn't really that complicated, it's about making sure they know it's you and your dh who have the authority in the house. Shouting a lot, spanking etc won't do anything. If they behave in a way that's not acceptable in the family/society, they should be removed from it.

You need to assert yourself now. When they will be 15, it will be much, much harder.

I am just watching Nanny 911 and some of the problems on the tv are the same as we have so I am watching closely. I was already considering a list of house rules so I will definitely do that.

I find it hard to know what is appropriate in terms of discipline.

I find that if you are really consistent it really works.

In terms of what's appriopriate- the punishment has to matched to the degree of the offense committed, for example for the behaviour like hitting, spitting, talking back to you and dh- full afternoon/day of sitting by themselves in their rooms with nothing they can amuse themselves with. If especially heinous, could be longer ie 2 days, or you could add to it cancellation of a day out you were planning etc, any fun stuff.

If you will be consistent, they will catch up really fast and you will see their behaviour improved quite quickly. Consistence is the word. Harsh punishment meted out here and there or letting them off before their time is up will make them disrespect your rules (and by extension, you) more.

All kids act up, but certain things are just not to be accepted. Smaller 'offences' can be dealt with consistent withdrawal of small priviledges, desserts etc etc. You might want to give them always one chance, remind them that the behaviour is not acceptable, if it doesn't work, they get punished.

Do not beat yourself up, because it is very easy to let the discipline slip, but it is equally easy to reinstate it. Don't waste your energy on shouting and making empty threats.

Fab - my lads are 11, 13 and 15. They fight and are absolutely horrible to each other. They also lie and pinch things from each others bedrooms! We do grounding, screen bans etc etc.

We are however all surviving (although I am using the citralopram too!).

My only advice is let them know you love them and hate the behaviour. It does get a little better to be honest

of all the advice I was ever given about my tree boys that which I truly regret not taking is making more of a life for myself outside of my adored family. I really think that would help. Can you carve out some time for, social life for, yourself?

I struggle with the no dessert for being naughty tbh as I have food issues and are not confident that things like that are okay to do.

I have become more selfish with using the time while the kids are at school for doing fun stuff for me as well as making sure there are clean washing and food in.

I have started a new thread in parenting for ideas for house rules if you would be kind enough to take a look.

Citalopram is helping me too.

I would really think about a parenting course Fab....talk to your HV. I think there is one run by parentline? Not so much for ideas/help but perhaps so you realise that you are not the only mum having issues with discipline?? Maybe talking to complete strangers about these issues will help and you could say things you couldnt day to dh, HV or even us here on MN??

Hope you have a better day today
x

The HV won't help me as all the children are at school now.

Thnks becaroo. I feel more like I can do this better now.

Fab, I really think that as long as you have the rules and are consistent, you can do it. It's not exactly science, but it can overwhelming trying to 'tame' the kids, especially if you carry issues from your own childhood. But do it you must or you are looking forward to years of misery for you and dh. And obviously for the kids as well- if they will not learn how to behave in the society, the society will reject them ie problems with friends, with work etc. V.important you instill some respect for yourselves and for the rules of living among others before they hit less malleable age.

WinnyBella is right - no one does their kids any favours by not teaching them how to behave in society, and it's a hard lesson for them to try and teach themselves whenthey get older.

But there are various ways of going about this, and it's vital to find methods that suit you.

So, rather than wondering if it's okay to do a certain thing, you'll be confident in your own approach and will ask yourself whether it fits in to that.

I'be heard great things about Parentline, and I'm sure it doesn't have to be arranged through your HV>

And this would be a good way to hear about different approaches and how they work in different families.

For eg, I've never used a naughty step or sent a child to his or her room in 15 years of parenting, but my three are well-behaved (minus the odd blip to crack their halos) and great company, and, now the youngest is 9, I have no anxieties about how they'll behave in public.

You may choose to go down the 'punishment' route, and it might work for you, as it clearly works for others - but if it doesn't suit you or sit well with your beliefs about child-rearing, you won't be convincing and your kids will sense your unease.

I hate the thought of punishing them, it sounds so violent, but I was physically hurt a lot as a child and I am finding it really hard to not react to my kids wrt to my childhood.

Rollmops- don't be a bitch. MN is a massive support to some people suffering from depression.
Why try and cut one Of Fab's support systems by telling her she is boring if you don't like her threads HIDE them.

Nasty nasty post.

Thanks for your support comewhine.

I know I must be boring everyone but I have no one else and are so trying to get things right with my children.