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Original poster

There was a mum on the bus today....

117 replies

KemalsStilletto · 07/08/2005 17:49

I don't know the full story but she started hitting her dd, what looked like very hard on her head. When the little girl tried to talk to her mum the mum snapped 'shut up, I don't want to talk to you so just shut up' and then went to sit on a tiny seat with the little girl, obviously squashing her, so of course the little girl complained that her mummy was hurting her and then the mum hit her dd more across the head and actually made a point of moving up further on the seat, thus squashing her dd even more! I obviously don't know the full story so I won't judge, but it was horrible to see someone hit their child in public and tell them to shut up.

OP posts:
handlemecarefully · 08/08/2005 12:16

ChocolatePeanut,

I've been known to swear in front of my children - if someone tackled me about that I would have a hard time containing myself. My children are taught consideration to others, good manners (please, thank you) and tbh I think it is no big deal if they hear me utter sh*t sometimes. That is quite a different scenario to physical abuse.

Back to the situation described - it sounds pretty horrible. This wasn't just a one off smack...I would have to have seen it first hand though to let you know what my reaction would have been.

Having said that, I sometimes wonder if I will appear on mumsnet eg:

"I saw a mum smack her 3 year old daughter's bottom, and then just turn around and walk away and leave her crying whilst shouting "I've had enough of you!!!!"

(yep - that was me last week when dd was being really trying and we were in danger of missing our ferry back to Southampton...I waited for her just around the corner keeping an eye on her btw. I don't generally smack and feel guilty when I occasionally lapse, but she had been pressing all the buttons for quite some time. As it happens, although not pleased that I smacked her bottom, it did seem to bring things to her head and following the aftermath of kiss and make up she was great)

Or,

"I was out for a walk and saw a small child - not much older than one, lying on the floor and crying piteously / desparately whilst him mum stood some distance from him with a stern look on her face and her hands on her hips apparently not caring two hoots. Why didn't she pick him up and cuddle him - he was clearly distressed!

(yep, that was me yesterday. Ds who is 15 months old absolutely will not tolerate the pushchair and wants to be carried all the time and everywhere (he can walk very competently) - that was me trying to teach him that I won't always carry him just on a whim and he needs to either walk or use the buggy - I did give in and pick him up a minute or so later and the elaborate, heart wrenching crying ceased in a nano second)

Lizita · 08/08/2005 12:54

Done that last one myself handlemecarefully!

A friend of mine worked with people with learning difficulties & one of them was epileptic, but she used to fake her fits. If you knew her well you knew when she was faking, (and not to pander to it) and this friend was on holiday with her once at a bus stop & she collapsed on the floor shaking (faking a fit) and the ppl at the bus stop were so shocked to see my friend just standing calmly saying "Get up".

I too swear in front of my dd but always by accident/without thinking! the day she spontaneously says a swear word i am going to REALLY think before i speak!!

homemama · 08/08/2005 15:49

HMC, I think there's a big difference between your kids occasionally hearing you say sh*t or bloody hell or something similar and them listening to the language sprouted by the father we encountered.
The 'c' word especially makes me cringe.

steffee · 08/08/2005 16:05

I grew up with both my parents swearing (they were brilliant parents other than this) and even at the age of 5 or 6 when I used to come out of school and find my mum talking to my friends mums and she was swearing, I was so embarrassed. I don't know if the other mums swore but I can't remember hearing them and I can honestly say I have never ever swore, not under my breath or being drunk or even as a teenager!! I hate swearing still now and cringe when my parents/dh/friends etc swear.

I also remember playing truant at about age 14 and I met a couple of friends who were also playing truant. One said we could go back to his, his mum wouldn't mind so we did and she didn't mind, but he swore to her and she swore back. I was disgusted and there's no way I would let my children swear at me like that (or play truant at home with their friends!!).

As for the battering a child on the bus, it's disgraceful but wouldn't have a clue what to do/say... maybe follow them home and then report the address to SS and let them get to the bottom of it.

handlemecarefully · 08/08/2005 16:09

Homemama, I quite agree...I was responding to chocolatepeanut telling off the two women who were swearing within the hearing of their small children, rather than commenting on the dreadful man that you encountered.

handlemecarefully · 08/08/2005 16:13

Re the swearing steffee - the braying classes, like the Windsors for example and their consorts, do it all the time. It is quite de rigeur I believe....(hasten to add I don't move in those circles)

I doubt my dd or ds will grow up to be embarrassed by their articulate, well educated and reasonably affable parents for their occasional swearing. They may well be embarassed by other things!

steffee · 08/08/2005 16:24

lol hmc, I doubt your dd or ds would be affected by occasional swearing either, or anybody's dds' or dss' for that matter. I didn't mean to imply they would, or that occasional swearing in front of kids is wrong. We all have our own opinions about everything, and I just happen to hate swearing which has nothing to do with being a parent as it started when I was very young.

As for the other situations, I have been guilty of leaving a young child crying on the floor and pretending to walk away, and also off smacking ds1's legs (age 4) when other methods of discipling him have failed. Not often, and definitely not out of temper, but rather than seeing smacking as being the easier option, I think sometimes it's needed to show ds1 that his good behaviour will still be rewarded, and disciplining bad behaviour is seperate.

CHOCOLATEPEANUT · 08/08/2005 19:17

The two women swearing went like this (child in buggy about 18-2)-

"Hes dead f*ckin greedy,arnt ya,he'l eat owt"

"Earya,does he wanna a biscuit"

"Hey divvy,look at him hes a right fckin mong,does my fckin ed right in" "Come on ya little dckhead do ya wanna fckin biscuit or wat?"

and so on.....

I occasionally heard from both parents 'bugger''bloody ell'and v v occasionally from dad sh*t (usually when attempting diy)This is not what I was refering to. Its a sad fact that more cruder swear words have entered the general vocabulary and are said so freely.This is what gets my goat and usually the aggression the its said with.......

Lizita · 08/08/2005 19:27

grrr. total disrespect for the kid. The kids'll grow up with equal disrespect for people, including their parents.

steffee · 08/08/2005 19:52

chocolatepeanut that's awful!! Worse than the swearing is her calling her ds names, jeez.

starshaker · 08/08/2005 19:52

i was in the public toilets last week and a mum said to her daughter (mum outside toilet her dd was in cubicle) what are you doing and the wee girl said im doing a poo mummy when the wee girl came out her mum smacked her repeatedly saying dont ever embares me like that again

i said to her well u did ask

Lizita · 08/08/2005 19:53

!! unbelievable

steffee · 08/08/2005 19:58
Shock
steffee · 08/08/2005 19:59

She embarassed herself by slapping her dd, not her dd embarrasing her by answering a question.

HappyMumof2 · 08/08/2005 22:23

Message withdrawn

nightowl · 09/08/2005 01:54

have seen a mother shouting at her child "do that a f*kin gen and im gonna knock ya teeth so far down yer fkin throat you little b*tard..etc etc"

handlemecarefully · 09/08/2005 08:29

chocolatepeanut - the swearing I could live with, but the name calling is quite another thing! Poor child.

homemama · 09/08/2005 09:27

I wasn't having a dig, HMC, just saying you shouldn't worry about sprouting the odd word.
You're right CP, the name calling is worse, probably because it is directed at the child IYKWIM.
I remember in class once, shouting at a group of 10yr olds to sh*t down (obv meant sit). A few parents came in for a 'word' and the class never let me forget it!

homemama · 09/08/2005 09:30

Obviously that should be spouting not sprouting

handlemecarefully · 09/08/2005 09:37

I didn't think you were having a dig homemama - just didn't want you to think I was unsympathetic about your encounter on the escalator

Raspberry · 09/08/2005 09:59

I have quite strong views in this area, perhaps not shared by all, but here goes..

I believe it is your duty as a citizen to challenge child abuse like this KS, 'turning the other cheek' is complicity.

I have and would again challenge such abuse. The man (in one case) came up with the pathetic excuse of 'yeah, but you don't know what he's just done... ..leave it...' My reply, 'I don't care what he's done, you are an adult he's a child, there is no excuse for hitting him like that...' I didn't go away and wasn't to be intimidated by this large man, he knew it and didn't do it again. I then got the shopping centre security to watch him and they actually escorted him from the centre.

Society is disintegrating IMHO because too many times people ignore things or turn a bling eye. Have we all forgotten the Tale of the Good Samaritan we were all taught at school?

There are people who should not be allowed to have children and whose children would be better off fostered or adopted, but all too often these days it is seen as the PC thing not to interfere, with social services being 'ever so understanding' and patient with the abusers. How many dead or damaged children will it take for society to start to care again?

Personally, I don't hold out much hope, the future is not bright or orange in this area

FairyMum · 09/08/2005 10:05

I would absolutely have said something and have done before when I see adults smacking children both in supermarkets and in playgrounds. I just think adults smacking small children look like complete idiots with no self-control. It's very British to think that your children are your "private property", but I believe society have a duty to protect some children from their parents.

handlemecarefully · 09/08/2005 10:07

I take your point Raspberry, but would you also tackle me for smacking my 3yr old on the bottom in the scenario I described in my post at 12.16 yesterday?

How do you discern what is 'child abuse' and what is a one off, not at all serious, fraught moment between parent and child?

Some cases are very clear cut - others are not so. There lies the difficulty.

I wouldn't hesitate if it was apparent to me it was a clear cut case...but in other scenarios I might not be sure what was going on.

handlemecarefully · 09/08/2005 10:09

Ah, Fairymum - I remember you from a previous smacking debate saying memorably that you thought that people who smacked were stupid and uneducated. Your views are rather polarised on this issue, eh?

FairyMum · 09/08/2005 10:13

Yes my views are always polarised as you know ;) but I think I can tell the difference between a light smack on the bottom and what I would call abuse. I certainly think smacking in the face is abuse. The situations where I have interferred have been smacking in the face of very small children. One woman smacked her baby in the face.