There was a mum on the bus today....

[KemalsStilletto]

I don't know the full story but she started hitting her dd, what looked like very hard on her head. When the little girl tried to talk to her mum the mum snapped 'shut up, I don't want to talk to you so just shut up' and then went to sit on a tiny seat with the little girl, obviously squashing her, so of course the little girl complained that her mummy was hurting her and then the mum hit her dd more across the head and actually made a point of moving up further on the seat, thus squashing her dd even more! I obviously don't know the full story so I won't judge, but it was horrible to see someone hit their child in public and tell them to shut up.

[Caligula]

I think that's why they should be offered as part of the standard ante natal care package, like the blood tests we have for syphilis etc. and the ante-natal courses on first aid, chiropody, dentistry, etc. If it were the norm to do them, even very problematic people would get some benefit from them. If just a little bit of awareness was raised, it would give people the idea that asking for help with parenting is not something shameful, as it generally seems to be considered at the moment.

[RachD]

I agree with Lizita.
Every parent should be forced to go.

Then, maybe, all the stories on this thread, swearing, smacking round the head etc, etc, would become less & less.

We have to try something.

[paolosgirl]

I think it goes back to what is right for you as a prent, and what is the odd smack v. abuse. There is a HUGE difference between the 2. You can (IMO) abuse a child emotionally by ignoring them, or neglecting their mental health, or allowing them to witness things a child shouldn't, just as you can abuse a child physically.

I have smacked DS on the bottom in the past - I have also attended parenting courses (so not all parents who smack can't be bothered!) - and I also feel confident in my ability to raise polite, well mannered, respectful children - which they both are. The trouble with parenting courses (as anyone who's been on one will know) is that they are very much 'one size fits all'. I'm not sure that a compulsory parenting course is the answer, to be honest...

[Lizita]

I can well imagine that's the case paolosgirl, but my point was, isn't that better than no awareness at all?

[paolosgirl]

I'm still not convinced. I think it still smacks (pardon the pun!) of the 'nanny' state - and it assumes that parents have both the time and inclination to go, and the willingness to learn from something.

I really don't think that if you're the kind of parent who thinks nothing of belting a 4 year old round the head that you'll stop because a parenting class suggests it might not be a great idea...

And if you don't attend your compulsory parenting course - then what?

[paolosgirl]

I've got to leave this, sorry. I'm at work, and have to go to a meeting - sheesh!

[Lizita]

Yes, maybe we're being naive again in the same way I meant earlier about members of the public reacting making a difference.

[lovecloud]

i was at session for toddlers under two and this moody looking woman came in with about three at least. straight away i didnt like her as I could see her being rough with him as she took his coat off and aggressively told him to sit with the others. she sat next to me, the next 10 minutes or so the little boy was was clearly too old for the session was not interested and did not want to joing in. he start crying and wanting to run around. she reacted badly to this and start swearing call him names. i tried to ignore it but it got me so angry and plus i did not want my dd to witness this kind of behaviour coming from anyone so i guess did have a right to tell her to shut up! well i did not use those words, i said to the woman, "look its not his fault he is not enjoying this, it is not for his age thats why he is not joining in"! she looked so angry and probably would have slapped me if outside but all the room was looking at her by now, she just muttered something under her breath and said "... well i'm going to go" and i just said "yes. i think you should" and that was that
i have to say i was worried she might of waited outside for me...
i have experienced scenes similar to yours KemalsStilletto and I am ashamed to say i dont nothing. i would love anyone on here to advise me on what i could do as I would like to do or say something next time.
i have to say whenever i did see his happening it was always with rough common looking mothers who looked like they might bite you if you said anything - what is the way to deal with this? I think all adults are responsible for the safety of childrens around them and we should tale action when she see a child abused.
any before anyone attacks me about my "common" comment, i was from a lower working class background and lived in hostals, emergency housing and council estates my whole life and i am quite aware that your backgound does not make you a bad person but i am aware that more children are mistreated as i witnessed it on a daily basis and this is due to lack of educcation about the simple things in life - eating, sleep, health, discipline etc...

[lovecloud]

sorry first sentence should say "a moody woman came in with a boy who was about three years old at least"

[CHOCOLATEPEANUT]

Been reading all your notes.Its an interesting debate isnt it?

Theres a v fine line for us all to consider.A lot of the problems with teenagers today is that they think they have too many rights.I shuddered when I read further down a comment about children having same rights as adults (although I know what context the writer meant )They think they can do what they like,to whoever they like and NOBODY can touch them.

There are good parents and there are bad parents.These are not distinguished by the fact they are lone parents,believe in smacking or are uneducated or poor.The differance is some parents care some don't. The "don't give a toss" and "not my problem" attitude is rife and it passed down to the children and so on....

If I see any kind of anti social behaviour I challenge it.Yes even us caring parents might loose it and raise our voices at toddlers who would test the patience of a saint or even smack them on the bottom.I am talking about people who scream at the children,use vile language,put down thier children and go beyond a smack and actually set about a child.

I am working class,grew up on a council estate and live close to one now. I was a Credit Manager for most of my working life until I had enough and jumped ship.Now I am an Anti Social Behaviour Manager working with all sorts of interesting people. Parenting courses?? Great idea, if they engage.They dont.All they are interested in is themselves.I have even had some parents when challenged about thier childs behaviour ask me to put them into care!!

You can see why I think that remote island is so appealing..........

[likklemum]

As a teacher, i have witnessed parents physically disciplining their children and its school policy to condemn this behaviour. A couple of parents have even told me to 'just give her a good slap on the leg if she's naughty' etc. These parents are in the minority (thank goodness)

It makes for an interesting question though. Would the light smackers allow a teacher (in loco-parentis) to apply the same discipline? I think not.

another very interesting point about children having the same rights as adults. Of course in the school environment, this has already happened. Adults are not allowed to physically discipline children, but are allowed to use reasonable force against a child who is in endangering themselves or others. These are pretty clear guidelines. Some children will, sadly, seek to exploit this, but for others it is a nessessity ( teacher who can't spell!!). I myself have had false accusations thrown at me, but have also seen the system used as it should be.

I believe that society would do well to employ the same rule for parents and children.

Also want to make the point that even if social services investigated the mum on the bus, the child would probably have to go through a hell of a lot more abuse to be put on to any kind of register.

For the record, i was smacked as a child and it did me neither good nor bad. (I hasten to add it was the light smacking kind - not the hitting round the head or squashing me on a seat kind) In those days it was how children were disciplined.My mum then chose to discipline my younger siblings without smacking (10 years later and smacking was being frowned upon) and reports that she found the alternative methods to be more effective.

[steffee]

I was smacked as a child (occasionally and on the legs with a slipper I remember, never on the face, head or anywhere other than legs or backside) and don't know whether it did me good or bad. I do, however remember my mum cutting off all my hair because I stole a chocolate bar from the cupboard at age 12!! To this day I have not forgiven my mum for that as I feel it was totally inappropriate (and my sister agrees). My sister recently reminded me that my mum also ripped up my swimming certificate at approx. age 8 for something silly and cut up my favourite sweatshirt!!

I consider my parents to be non-abusive but even so, could not imagine doing these things to my child and am so worried about it happening I would like to do one of these parenting courses everyone talks about...

Can anyone recommend a good parenting course for an occasional smacker?!

[Lizita]

at having your hair cut off! That sounds worse than a light smack!

My mum only ever slapped me & my sister once, quite hard on the legs, for getting out of bed & continuing playing. We were very but it didn't make any difference to our behaviour. But I'm not sure what would have! We were out of bed playing without failure every single night of my childhood I think!

[steffee]

Oh yeah, me and my sis did that too. I don't remember getting smacked for it. I got smacked maybe 10 times total, once was when my mum lost one of her contact lenses and it turns out my sister washed it down the plughole, and once was when the dog ran upstairs and knocked a bone down the stairs and straight through a glass china cabinet at the bottom. I don't remember what the others were for so maybe it didn't do any good, esp. as once I bit another girl on the shoulder when we were both age 5 and my mum wouldn't let me get any books out of the library that day which was probably more appropriate as I don't think I did it again.

[Lizita]

It's my big worry that dd will behave the same way as I did re getting up after going to bed, but I have heard that as long as they're just in their rooms it's ok, they will go to bed & sleep when they really need to.

Sorry, have gone off track here... Can't believe there are parents who give permission for their kids to be hit like that! I agree, light smackers prob wouldn't want anyone else to do it to their children!

[nightowl]

im not stringing my words together very well tonight so hope we can excuse that...i (as a single parent) have had a really shitty day with my stroppy daughter again.

re the point about people interfering. i see children mistreated (or what i percieve as mistreated) nearly every day. i never say a word. why? because 1. it wont change a thing. 2. around here, if i said one word i would most likely end up with a smack around the mouth from the parent/s and im sorry, but if i have my children with me why should i risk that?

re the point about single mothers...that, in my opinion is a load of cobblers. when i was young i would rather have had a "single mother" as my guardian than two parents to happily beat the shit out of me. just because two parents are there, it doesnt mean bad things dont happen. ive not been a single mother out of choice but i realy resent the view that we always get it wrong. however hard life is with my children, the one thing i can guarantee is that they will NEVER spend their childhood being terrified of where the next punch is coming from.

[CHOCOLATEPEANUT]

likklemum i was interested to hear that as a teacher you agree with corporal punishiment being abolished.

It amazes me how teachers are able to control kids today,some of them are a nightmare.

At my school we had the lot,Smacking,the slipper,the ruler,the cane and worse of all,the nuns