what to do with a free spirit who WILL NOT even try on school uniform

[jamsandwich]

Help, help, HELP!
PFB dd, turns 4 on 31st August, then starts school a few days later. Quite reasonably thinks school uniform is awful (bottle green and grey, why oh why?!) I bought it all nice and early as she has always had strong views on clothing and needs a looooong time to come round to new things. But we have made absolutely zilcho progress. To the extent of not even trying things on, so who knows if they even fit.

She has anxieties anyway about school, so I can just see that we will have the most almighty row on the first day about what she will wear, which will make everything even more difficult.

So, questions for the school old-timers:

1. how pragmatic are schools about dresss code for first few weeks (surely some stripey pink socks wouldn't make her fail her GCSE's later on down the line?)

2. and what top tips do you have for trying to overcome this little hitch?

My ideas so far are: sewing on some pretty buttons or beads - not found any that make the grade yet, apparently, but still feeling hopeful/ Dragging her round to see some poor friend wearing her uniform before term starts - not holding out much hope as she won't ever wear trousers, short sleeves or skirts despite having seen endless friends wearing them/ running away and leaving dh to deal with it...

thanks for any helpful thoughts/ similar expereinces (I can't be the only one?!)

Hey there,

I aggree with teamcullen's advise to use of a reward chart, and I have some great new ones which I hand make at my website, the parent guru dot com.

I can also help you with support, as I'm experienced in advising parents on anxiety issues.

Good luck!

what muffle said.

In fact double what muffle said and with nobs on.

Uniform is something that makes me want to put my head in my hands and weep. It's so utterly utterly pointless

I see you are well on the way to sorting out the problem with the button anyway - otherwise I would have suggested something similar to ashfordgirl - about letting her choose what she wears under the uniform, as that might help any sensory issues if what's next to her skin is something of her choosing. you might find it helpful to post about this sort of issue on the special needs board here as well, as people on there have experience of social and language issues.

I went to a school without uniform and a school with.
I hated being at the non school uniform one. I was endlessly teased and sneered at because we were poor and I had little confidence. It was just another way in which poor children are made more glaringly obvious.

Non uniform being about expression and individuality but it isn't. It is aboutthe children who have designer clothes and who don't. Whos parent let them wear all the latest gear and whose won't. It totally distracts from the school day and it stigmatises certain children.

Uniforms give as level a platform as possible. And most of the children who are 'victimised' because of 'free expression' are gaining exactly the sort of attention they want. Having blue hair allows them to be alternative and exciting in a way that it wouldn't if anything is accepted. I expect that most of them thoroughly enjoy a brief suspension and a line or two in the local press.

It may seem pointelss to some. But when I recall the three years of absoloute misery I am very grateful for uniform. It allowed me to be normal.

I agree with Pagwatch.

When I went to school, they had a non-compulsory uniform. Which was fine. Sometimes I wore it, sometimes I didn't. BUt increasingly as I got older (i.e. key stage 2) more and more parents chose to send their children in uniform. I think because that was when the competition regarding clothing started to kick in.

Well that was then. These days things seem to happen at a much earlier age. DD goes to a school with compulsory uniform (in as much as it can be, legally). She is 6. Own clothes days are painful because there is a worrying and inevitable comparison, particularly among the girls, of who is wearing what. It adds a stress and anxiety to the morning before leaving for school. Can't wear this or that (i.e. no jeans, because girls "don't wear jeans", or the jeans aren't sparkly enough, or the colour is "boyish", or wants to wear monsoon party frock). Whereas on normal uniform days, there are none of those arguments and no pressure to "fit in" because everyone already does, because they are wearing their uniform. It's almost, to me, as if the uniform actually allows freedom of genuine expression rather than the more shallow freedom of expression through clothing.

I know that as adults we do the same - we wear what suits us and what we like. But then we are grown ups and capable of presumably rising above the crap relating to branding/colour stereotyping and so on. Much more capable of doing so than a 4, 5 or 6 year old IMO.

That's OK if you want to be normal pagwatch, but if you don't it basically sends you a message that you're not acceptable. I think that's a horrendous message to give children.

I went to a school with uniform and it was still totally obvious who had money and who was poor. From where the uniform had been bought, who wore hand-me-downs or too-small uniform, and everything else about people that gives that away. I think most children can tell these things anyway.

At the very least, it would be nice if some schools had uniform and some didn't. It depresses me that I will have little choice but to see DS dressing like a small city businessperson from 4. If we have to have uniform, couldn't it at least be something nice, normal and colourful?

Yes muffle, that is a bit my idea as well. I know they will be more strict at the sec schools here, so they will have to wear uniforms every day. But at least they are a bit older by then and I will find it easier to explain it (the silliness of it). By that age I also consider education more important so would be more strict (well, that's my idea..).
At the moment they don't "flout the rules" but just don't see it as a big deal, as a proper rule.

"small city businessperson" ha-ha. Yes, I have bought the poloshirts and fleeces , skirts, dresses, but I just can't get myself to buy those grey/black school trousers, it just makes me shrudder. But instead I got some corderoy trousers and black jeans(policy only specifies colour...)

As for girls getting het up about who's wearing what, I agree that's worrying and part of the weirdly retrograde anti-feminist route we've been going down for 30 years, with so many girls learning to prioritise appearance above all else. I also think as adults many people can't handle these issues at all either - loads end up in debt because they have to have designer handbags for example. But I think that's a general problem that we should be trying to address, and uniform at school doesn't actually get rid of it at all. Uniform is on the rise and so is this looks obsession.

I see what you mean thirdname, and agree that uniform often isn't a big deal - I have just seen that attitude result in problems later on as parents who never enforced rules about uniform etc then find it harder to be strict with other things later.

In secondary school correct uniform can actually be a safety issue as well, for example in Technology or Home Economics.

Also, the idea of individual families deciding which school rules are important and which aren't becomes majorly problematic at GCSE/ A level. I have spent hours marking coursework late at night because a couple of children, with the full knowledge/support of their parents ignored deadlines.

But, when it comes down to it, what you wear doesn't affect your academic ability, whereas doing your coursework on time is inherently connected to your performance and results. A bright child can work that out and is being perfectly reasonable if they can't see the point of uniform. When teachers pretend all school rules are just as important as each other, it's nonsensical.

well Percypig, but isn't it also dependend on the school? Because obviously some schools find some rules more important than other rules. Our little prim school is not very strict on uniforms, but reading responses here on mumsnet other prim schools are.
I think (wrongly or rightly) that in some sec schools children/parents don't consider academics/doing course work that important. I do, so I would try to choose a school where I think they will be strict in these kind of rules.(And I have warned my eldest dc (year4) already that he will have to wear uniforms every day at sec school)

I think a lot of "my opinion" is dependend on the fact that I grew up in a country where there were no uniforms at all and that I come from a very academic background/family.

I think it's quite important to teach DC from an early age the way to distinguish between 'rules' which are about safety, fairness, practicality etc and those which are about a mindless petty exercise of power by inadequates. So rub along with the rules as much as possible, but if you want to break one, think about why the rule is there and what the consequences of breaking it will be for you and other people. And if the rule still seems moronic or even unethical (as many 'rules' are) go right ahead and break it and with a bit of luck it will be done away with.

I agree thirdname - I'm trying to explain why schools sometimes seem to go overboard on 'unimportant' rules. Unfortuntely not every parent values coursework, or the importance of meeting deadlines, and many (parents and children) have skewed ideas about priorities so we try to promote a positive attitude to rules. In general pupils who conform to the 'rules' will do better because they are in the habit of doing things the required way.

This does not mean they have to be clones - so in our school, while most of us try to uphold uniform standards (which promote a committed attitude to schoolwork and for health/safety reasons) we aren't fussy about hairstyles etc.

In fact one of my favourite pupils is a boy with quite long hair who has already told me he wants to do a different topic for his A2 coursework than the one I'm planning for the whole class. I'm going to make him study the same as everyone else as a back up but also help him develop his own area of study. He is quirky and bright - has that 'flair' which many of his more conforming classmates don't have - and he's not great at managing his own work, so he needs some structure imposed until he grows up enough!

Yep solidgoldbrass- surely we want to foster some facility for independent thought in our kids, rather than to just force them to follow rubbish rules mindlessly?

-rofl at "mindless petty exercise of power by inadequates"

I broadly support a basic uniform for the reasons pagwatch and others have stated. but am uncomfortable with a very strict clone like uniform. I was one of the poor kids at school - and the cost of the uniform jumpers was as much if not more than a plain blue or black jumper from a fashionable shop anyway.

Our school uniform asks for a polo shirt /top /jumper/sweatshirt in the school colours which I don't think is asking too much from parents/children.
We do have parents sending children in totally unsuitable clothes - 10 year old girls who look like streetwalkers rather than children.

that's the sort of uniform arrangement I think is a good idea mrz - as opposed to the sort where its twenty quid for a jumper with the school badge on that you can buy at one specific shop

Whilst clearly uniform doesn't really matter, not being singled out by 20+ other 4yos saying "why's she wearing pink socks, Miss X?" probably does.

How is the bribery incentive-based approach going, jamsandwich? Are you any closer to being in uniform?

I didn't have this as DS was desperate to wear his uniform (and it was actually quite nice) but DD has stronger opinions about clothes so we will see how it goes - and a friend had to find ways to adapt uniform for her DD who hated anything around her waist/neck/wrists

Other ideas (and I have no idea if they will work) - any chance there is an older child that she looks up to who could be used as an example? Or a doll/bear who you could make uniform for?

Jamsandwhich I have started a thread in Education for SM and anxiety come and say Hi

'As a secondary school teacher it's all too easy to predict which pupils will be a nightmare to get GCSE coursework off; those who flout more minor rules with the agreement of their parents right from the start.

I agree, you see it all the time. Parents should be working as a partnership and the school is not the enemy. If you don't like the uniform then choose a school without (they do exist), if they aren't in your area then go through the right channels and change it. I suspect that you wouldn't get very far- I for one- would fight it all the way. Uniform gives equality. Pagwatch had an excellent post. I would have had a miserable time at school without a uniform-there is no way that my mother and I would have seen eye to eye on suitable school clothes and uniform solved the problem.
I also agree with mrz-some of the clothes on non uniform days, worn by girls, even younger than 10yrs- have to be seen to be believed! Totally unsuitable!

just in case anyone is interested in an update.
school starts on Monday and we have seen some gradual improvements...

she talks happily and proudly about her uniform since the pretty heart shaped buttons appeared on each dress

she has finally worn the shoes today, following a long and gradual propaganda campaign (culminating in the "losing" of her sandals I'm ashamed to admit), without any major meltdown - very grumpy at first but ended up chasing pigeons at great speed and totally forgetting what was on her feet.

she tried on her polo shirt and dress very excitedly at gparents house before panicking at the obvious discomfort almost straight away.

we've got the pretty pants, she gets to wear them when she tries on the uniform.

So, the big challenge will be getting the clothes on on Monday. I think I'd settle for either the top with non-uniform dress or maybe the dress with non-uniform top (as that would save the scratchy polo shirt layer) and build up from there each day. We'll see.

and a note for anyone who hasn't read from the top - the free spirit comment was tongue in cheek, she actually has selective mutism and other genuine anxiety and senosry issues, so I'm not just indulging her by all this obsessing!

interested to hear from anyone else encountering uniform angst currently.

Was going to suggest,but too late now I guess,to invite some playgroup mums and kids round,and have a dress up in the new uniform,maybe she'll want to put it on to be like her friends.Take pictures etc.make a game of it.

When new dc's have joined my dd1's class last term,they took a few weeks to get the uniform complete,no-one worried,so I'm sure if you are laid back about it,gradually she'll want to look like the rest of her class.

Take her to school in whatever she has on (pyjamas if necessary) and hand a bag over to her teacher with her school uniform in. Sometimes you have to admit defeat. On the other hand ... I would be inclined to say - tough, you have to wear your uniform. (Are you sure she's not just worried about school?)