Bedtime tantrums, now both of us are crying, vomit everywhere, screaming child, help me please....?

[BlueBumedFly]

I really hope that someone can help me, I am having a really bad time of it at the moment.

Life is in a nutshell pretty darn rubbish although I know I have a shed load to be grateful for. So, top line, FIL is sadly passing away very slowly, SDD has had a year of peanut desensitisation which is marvelous but has its own set of challenges. Other SDD has had spine surgery, again, lots of challenges most of which are upsetting although the light at the end of the tunnel is that she is getting so much better and will be better within the next 9 months.

Little DD (2 this week) has struggled with all of these changes and comings and goings. DH away most weekends at his parents which means DD is with me all of the time at weekends. She goes to Nursery for 3 days in the week, which she loves and is with my Mum for one day. I work 4 days.

So, enough babbling. Bedtime has become a total and utter nightmare. She was always excellent at going to bed, has slept through the night since 16 weeks. It has been getting worse and worse over the last few weeks, one more book, one more story, one more song. Tonight was the end of the road.

We went up as normal but she started crying straight away. Did not want to sleep in her bag so I got her duvet out. Nice. Did milk, did stories, then the crying started. Screaming, shouting. I went back in and comforted as best I could, tried not to get angry but must sadly admit I did in the end.

Picked her up again, did one more rendition of Twinkle Twinkle Little Star, put her down, she would not lie down so I left her standing. She cried, I left her for 5 minutes, then she vomited. Went back in almost in tears myself, changed her, did another cup of milk, no stories this time. Put her down, more tears, tried to comfort, left her for 2 mins and she went to sleep finally.

PLEASE someone give me some advice, where am I going wrong. Is there too much choice in her room (toys and books) - should I take these out and just offer 1 or 2 books then be firm it is bedtime.

Please help, I don't want a child that you see on Super Nanny!!!

Starlight - as she is only 2 I don't know what she really understands and what she doesn't but her speech is really good. I will try to keep all the books downstairs each day, she can choose 2 books to take up with her then bed.

What do they say about bad habits? 4 days to make and 4 days to break? I could be on the funny farm by the weekend. When I read the post back it does not sound so bad but it is. And I am fed up. And tired. And it is just one more thing to add to the load.

If only DH could do just one bedtime it might help my sanity but he works until 8 or 9 and as he is gone most weekends it is just all me. When he is here she cries so hard for me I feel totally guilty and give up and go in. I am off on a girls weekend away in September and am dreading it already as I am imagining her so upset (

Did not mean to add
meant to add

Hi there; sorry things are so tough for you on so many fronts at the moment. I do think these things communicate themselves to our little ones. We had a bad summer last year, when my grandmother was dying. I did quite a bit of travelling(a 3 hour trip) with dd (then just 2) backwards and forwards to support my mum; in the middle of it all dd had chicken pox, and insisted on moving to the toddler bed she saw arrive (a hand-me-down my friends were deseprate to get rid of).

All this spelled the end of our peaceful bedtimes and sleeping through the night. I'm afraid that 10 months on and sleeping through the night is still very hit and miss, but bedtime has been back under control for quite a while. To begin with I had to stay beside her while she went to sleep, then I was able to move to the other side of the room, and then I plucked up the courage to say 'I'm going to say night night now, but I'll be back in 2 minutes to see you, and you need to stay in bed until I come back.' I would watch the clock and make sure it was exactly 2 minutes. To begin with she would get up straight away, so we went through it again, and again... eventually it stuck, the key, I think, was to stick to my promise to go back, even when I thought she was almost asleep and going back was going to wake her up again.

I also started warning her that bedtime was coming, from about an hour before bed, i.e. 'we're going to have supper now, then you can watch your programme, then it'll be time for your bath, then you'll have your milk and stories, then I'll sing you a song, then it will be time to go to sleep', then after supper do the whole thing again starting from 'you can watch your programme now, then it's bath time...' etc.

It was really important for us to stick to the routine really quite rigidly for a while, until things had settled, but now we can vary things, have later bedtimes if events cause them etc.

I also set a strict limit of 3 stories followed by 3 songs with the lights out, and didn't waiver from that until things had settled - again, we can change things a bit now.

I'm afraid it took quite a while, and it wasn't desperately easy, but it did get better.

Oh, and things improved dramatically when she dropped her daytime sleep, which I think was a bit before Christmas, so she'd have been about 2.5.

Sorry, have rambled on a bit, maybe something in my ramble will be useful!
Good luck, and don't beat yourself up about having got angry.

If she's unsettled at the moment, I would treat her with kindness rather than firmness. After the usual milk and stories, could you just sit in her room (no interaction - maybe read a book if it's not too dark) until she goes to sleep? It may make her feel a bit more secure if you're there.

Have just read Biccy's post, and agree about gradually moving away, leaving the room etc.

My DS has always reponded well to reward charts. So we've done what Biccy said about warning him what was coming up and what was going to happen and what he should do. If he did it (one chart was staying in bed after lights out) then he's get a star on his chart. 5 stars got him a present. He always knew what the present was and he was keen to get it so it worked well.

Good advice from Biccy.

I have a nightmare sleeper so you have my sympathy along with everything else your going through.

Good luck

Biccy, please don't apologise for rambling, thank you so much for posting, I really do appreciate it. I am in a bit of a mess I think.

So, when you started the explanation how old was she? DD seems to drop one day sleep a week, usually at the weekend when she is so over excited that her half-sisters have arrived. She is only just 2 so I was hoping to keep the day sleep a little longer. She sleeps at nursery each day for an hour to an hour and a half. They have none of these issues!

I like the promise of coming back to check on her. I am just so used to a good sleeper it hs taken me by storm to be honest. I will also try to make the warnings more obvious as opposed to 'right, time for milk!' which is obviously not helping anyone!!

I thought l was reading about my 2.5 year old DD then. Excaltly the same. Tomorrow l am going to tell her l know she has been on childrens net making plans to drive mums mad. I have just tried been clear and leaving her if she gets really upset l sit with her and read my own book on her chair. Sometimes works sometimes does nt. Also she is getting up 2 or 3 times during the night. We have a 15 wk old babe so l thought it was that but maybe its just a little thing about bed lots of children go through.

Stinky - ok, will try a slower withdrawal. I think at the moment the red mist is coming down so I try to leave before I shout.
not good parenting I know.

Iwish - how old was your DS when you started the reward chart?

Thanks confuzzeled. It is draining eh?

Anyone for a glass of wine? Monday wine? Bad BBF, Bad BBF.

We have similar problems. DD1 was a good sleeper and good at going to bed until the arrival of DD2. Since then we have had to sit with her until she falls asleep and this has fallen to me for the most part as she has also become very clingy to me.

I b/f DD2 to9 begin with which made it all even tougher but FF feeding now and DD2 settles into her bed easily with DP. She then sleeps all night.

DD1 is (usually) okay as long as I sit with her. We have used a sticker chart (she is 2.7 yo) and now she is fine with the routine of 2 stories in the 'cosy corner' and then she'll get into bed happily. Recently she then wants to chat and I find it hard not to respond so sometimes do.

At the moment I am focussed on the fact that we are going on holiday at the end of the week. We are then going to try to crack potty training and then sort out bed time - hoping that 'as a big girl' she will play along with our plans.

And, to top it all, she 'let' DP put her to bed tonight - and I have just heard on the monitor that he has let her come downinto our room! (And I am not going to battle that as she'll sleep all night there and we will all get a "good" night's sleep - and we have co-slept in the past so can;t insist on her being in her own bed!)

Do children ever simply 'grow out' of sleep problems?

Not read the whole thread just wanted to say from a personal pov I have always found the more I give in the more they go on so if one night I give in to 2 more stories the next night it would be 3 more then 4 more then 5 more and if I said no they wouldn't believe me because I gave in before and would go on and on and on until I gave in again whereas if I had said no and stuck to it then it would never have spiraled. So personally I would have a chat in the morning about how she needs her sleep etc then gently remind her a couple of times in the day that is it one story and then sleep then at bedtime do bath milk bed one story light off and that's it every night eventually she will forget that you ever gave in and won't ask or get upset.

You know your child you are her mum and you know best so if you think you need to do it differently then that is what you should do

bath, pjs, small glass of water before bed. then toilet and bed. one story , turn light off and leave

and dont go back

if she comes out - do not engage with her. pick her up and put her back and just come out

one week later - i promise. and if you say it doesn't work - you are not doing it properly.

I can identify with the red mist. I find when I'm expecting a tantrum to start, the red mist comes down at the very first sign, rather than relaxing and trying to divert it!

Anyway, I would start bedtime with the expectation that it's going to take an hour or two - once you accept it, it's much easier, I promise.

And mine's a glass of Monday red!

Hi again, I think we started the explaining thing quite soon after the trouble started, so she'd have been not much more than two.

It was on advice from friends who have two girls. The first was, and always has been, a dream sleeper - easy to get to bed, always sleeps through. They thought they had 'done everything right' and anyone with a bad sleeper just should have done whatever it was they did... until their second daughter came along, who won't go to bed, and didn't sleep well at all. They are now the first to say that it's not about what you have 'done right' or 'done wrong', children are all different.

I started a thread some time back that still makes me cry when I read through it.

I know how awful it can get / how you can feel at the bedtime battle.

this was my thread

My DD is now 3.5 and its not a massive battle anymore. I wont say its perfectly easy, as there are the odd nights where it will take us til late to get her to sleep, but on the whole, its good.

At what age are your DCs dropping daytime naps?

My DD1 still sleeps for 90 minutes most days - and if she doesn't then she falls asleep at around half past 5 and then the evening is really messed up. So I make sure she has a nap earlier in the afternoon.

I keep thinking she is getting to an age (2.7 yo) that she should maybe drop the nap.

I have tried waking her up after an hour which sometimes works as long as we are prompt with dinner at 6pm (which is when DP gets home).

I have tried moving bedtime later - but she still wakes at half 6.

Should I drop the nap and see what happens after a few days when she is used to it? (but I don't want her sleeping later as I need to have her up and ready by half 7 for the CM when I go back to work in September!)

My ds used to always want someone with him to fall asleep with - if we did, he was fine!

I gradually started to finish the bedtime story, cuddle etc then say I was just going to the loo or to put some clothes away or something similar and as long as he could hear me moving around he was fine.

Don't know if it would work for you but it helped us

He was 2.3 - just as he moved into his new bedroom and into a bed so I remember it well!

He's now 3.5 and we still remind him what's coming up from tea time onwards. He knows that after 1 book and a made up story that's it - lights out and goodnight.

Mine's a nice glass of white tonight - go on, you deserve it

Custardo - have not seen you posting for a while but that made me laugh!! I MUST stop talking when I go back in, must must must stop. You are right, and bloody funny.

Stinky - glass of red coming over hun! Yellow Label, ok with you?

Thank you everyone, I am going to try to be calmer and stronger... and less rubbish!!

Good advice from Starlight.

One of the things that we have done is got them ready for bed, settled down on settee, story, then put baby tv on or something quiet and I'd hold their hand and relax for half an hour. Sometimes they were asleep in ten minutes. Sometimes it took a bit longer. I found that if they were tired they nodded off quite quickly. I did warn them that they could only do this if they lay nice and quiet.

Much better than the fighting to get to sleep that I had with my eldest. Putting back to bed, raising my voice, tears and upset. Me exhausted by the time he finally gave up.

Dysgu "Do children ever simply 'grow out' of sleep problems? "

I found that mine did if you mean do they go to bed and go to sleep. If you mean problems such as teens not getting up when they should and sleeping to lunchtime if you leave them then I'm not sure yet

Agree with Custardo.I think in her 2 yr old way she is "testing the boundaries" and you have to stay firm.

I went through this a little while ago with my 2.6 yr old.

It is awful,but she is learning that she plays a part in the way things happen,and she is learning that she doesn't have to do everything without question.

I think you have to reinforce the guidelines/boundaries.

Give plenty of notice,do your bedtime routine,but when its finished its finished.You need to walk away,talking as you go that its time to sleep now.

It takes a few days for her to realise that Mummy does mean it,and bedtime is for sleeping,but it does get better.

dd went through a stage of this, screaming 'i hate my room' etc, and freaking out about monsters... i'm sure it was all linked in to her wee sister's early appearance.

tbh i was not in the least hard-core as i felt so sorry for her. i bought her some luminous stars to stick to her bed as it's a well-known fact that they repel monsters , and a bunting canopy thing for a few quid from ikea to turn her bed into a 'princess bed' and i climb into bed with her and we read a few stories and have a chat, sing a song and then i leave, telling her i'll be back in ten minutes to check she's okay. of course, she's always asleep.

oh, another thing that soupy said when i asked what to do on here was to get one of those kids wall lights from ikea, they just give a soft light so you can leave it on all night.

this will all depend on whether or not she's still in a cot, i understand. but i just wanted to say that i went the softly softly route and still do, and we have minimal mucking around as i just don't tolerate it.