I thought things would be easier by now but they just seem to be getting worse, and I'm starting to feel desperate

[bean612]

My DD is 11 weeks old and such an unhappy baby. We had a really rocky start (29-hour labour ending in an emergency C-section, horrible problems with breastfeeding, hospital admission (her) at 10 days with a (luckily non-serious) skin infection) and I can't help feeling that's affected her. She cries so much, day and evening, often screaming until she's hysterical. The first few weeks were hideous but between about weeks 6 and 9 life started to regain some sort of shape and I felt like I was coping. But now she seems to be even unhappier, and my feelings of desperation from the early weeks are coming back.

I feel like I spend all my time either dealing with her crying, or anticipating it and trying to think of ways to soothe her. I used to dread the evenings (colicky type crying fits) but felt reasonably positive in the mornings, but now I wake up dreading the day ahead. DH has been fantastic, taking turns to get up with her in the night, so that we both get a good night's sleep every other night, but now I find that even when it's my night off I can't sleep properly - I'm horribly anxious and wake up with my heart pounding. It's getting to DH, too - he has ended up in tears twice in the last 10 days or so, trying to deal with an inconsolable, hysterical baby.

Everyone says it gets better at 12 weeks/3 months but I just can't bring myself to believe it and I think fear of getting there in 6 days' time and it not happening is making me feel even worse. We have tried colic drops, infant gaviscon, a (very expensive) swing, cranial osteopathy, all in a bid to find out what's 'wrong' with her and 'fix' it, but nothing helps. I'm at my wit's end. I know no one can offer a magic solution, but please tell me it's not always going to be this awful...

(The 5 hours of nap time a day being what babycentre recommends/says is usual for a 3-month-old, which she nearly is)

Bean and pookamoo I've just come out of the exact situation you're describing (ds now 3 and a half months and everything transformed in the last 2 weeks) - and i really really think the most important thing is to remember that at this age babies are not able to think for themselves - and they don't really have likes and dislikes, it just seems like they do. You have to 'tell' them what to do, and as just saying it obviously doesn't work you have to do it by showing them instead. They may cry at first but they really really do respond to doing the same things at the same time again and again - and they do learn quickly.

Crucially pook I'd say get the feeding under control (i was in exact same boat) - if necessary express for a while so you can monitor amounts - but if you know for a fact that they had enough food half an hour ago, then you know that they are not crying because they are hungry. Admittedly they are still crying but it at least eliminates one possible cause - and saves you and your nipples huge stress.

Also I'd second everyone who says sleep in the daytime is good. I used to have to take ds out for a three hour walk everytime he got tired (lost the pregnancy weight quickly but became completely exhausted!) - now I do the same bedtime routine as at night at lunchtime but without a bath and he goes down for 1 or 2 hours (we are still on marathon walks morning and afternoon however...)

And bean I would recommend seeing another cranial osteopath - we went to one in the first few weeks who charged a fortune and appeared to have no effect - so next week we are booked in at the children's centre for osteopathy in Clerkenwell (bean they have a branch in Battersea too I think - also there is a school of osteopathy in London Bridge - the centre doesn't charge but takes donations - i think this is true for the school too)

Finally I just have to say that i KNOW everyone tells you it gets better and you don't care because that's in the future and it is now that is terrible and no-one seems to be able to do anything about that - but (sorry!) it DOES get better and as long as you can tell yourself that you are doing everything you can for your baby (and from the sounds of it you are both doing that and more) then you are being fantastic mothers even if you don't feel like it at all.

I never thought I would be in a position to offer any advice to anyone - for 2 months at least I wanted to give the baby back but I do now adore him - even when he's crying!

huge hugs to you both

How about trying to do 2 walks a day, with her in the sling, whether she sleeps or not. More to give her a proper feeling of routine than getting her to sleep.

I was not strict with routines but I did kind of have a habit of going out around 10am and then again late afternoon/early evening. We often went out for a walk when DH came home from work.

bean - I wouldnt expect a baby of that age to sleep for 10 hours interupted - at that age mine were sleeping from say 7/8 until a feed when we went to bed and then asleep again until about a feed at any point between 2 and 4 and then back again til about 6 - which is when the day started.

The key is to teach her how to settle herslef as she cycles through sleep and for that you will probably need a 2 hour sleep at lunchtime - so that she learns to come into a light sleep and then back into deep sleep again.

I dont think many babies can put themselves to sleep for naps - they have to be taught how to settle - am sure there are loads of methods for doing this in the sleep section.

What sort of buggy have you got? Mine always sleeps really well in the bog standard maclaren XT - do they have a smoother ride and therefore sleep less in more expensive ones? She probably only likes the sling to sleep in now during the day because thats where she expects to sleep iyswim?

We started by getting them to nap at the times we wanted each day by any means necessary - dummy/out in the buggy/in the swing/in the sling whatever and then when that was established tried to move it inside to the cot.

me again just read your last post

ds always started his 'long' sleep about 6 or 7 pm - at first he would then wake at 11 or 12 for a feed - then it extended to 1 or 2am - but just in the last few weeks it has often gone through to 5am. if you can bear it I would put dd to bed at 7(ish - or whenever suits you) then try to bear the early am feeds for a while as babies do end up sleeping through the night of their own accord when they get a bit bigger - and you get to have an evening to yourself - then you can either go to bed at half 7 yourself - or have a bit of guaranteed peacetime with dh (at least that's what i've been doing)

as for daytime naps my ds would never sleep for 5 hours - he does 30/45 mins in the morning - 1-2hours at lunch(this is a new thing though) then 45/1hour in arvo - some babies just have more energy than others (and he has a hell of a lot!!) - distraction is key to getting them through the awake time....and long walks of course....

good stuff from hodgepodge there - I would second those nap times - we are/were about the same.

Bean - so sorry you are going through this. I don't have anything really helpful to say but did want to give you the details of a Cranio we used for my DD, who worked wonders. His name is Richard Davison and he is based at his home in Balcombe, W.Sussex (near Gatwick). His tel. is 01444 811017. I have passed his details on to a few other people, and all have been delighted with the results.

Bean - maybe try this, it works for me!

After the long sleep, wake baby, change nappy, feed, wind, sing/read/entertain baby for 15-20 mins then put down for a nap.

All the above activity will take approx 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 hours and your LO will be ready for a nap of about the same length of time, believe it or not!!!

I thought "how can the baby want a nap following 6 hours sleep or so" but they DO!

Initially I thought that babies would sleep in one big go then be awake for one big go etc but mine definitely does not, if he IS awake for hours on end he is fractious and overtired.

I liken it to say, us as adults being delayed at an airport for hours - after so long awake when you finally get the chance to sleep you can take aaaages to get to sleep and find yourself doing activities like reading and cleaning up etc as your mind is racing, even though you know you're exhausted! = Overtired

Naps are the way forward even if they are not already nodding off. If they've been awake for more than a few hours when they are tiny then they WILL be tired even if they are awake.

It works for me....

If you put them to bed at 7 you get an evening and a sense of normality/ time for self or for you and DH, which is crucial for sanity and your relationship. Somehow even the 1/2/3am wakings seem easier after that. Do a couple of hours in the small hours then swap with DH. We used to agree a time and set an alarm. Person with baby would go down to living room, so the other person could sleep. It meant you could cope as you knew you'd get a couple more hours sleep when your turn came.

• keep repeating, 'this will pass, this will pass, this will pass..' because it will

I just dug out my Baby Whisperer book (Tracey Hogg) which helped me enormously. Here's a bit about sleep:

"Pave the way to sleep - Because babies thrive on predictability and learn from repetition, we must always do and say the same things before naps or bedtime, so that in their baby minds they think "Oh this means I'm going to sleep". Do the same rituals in the same order. As you take her to her room, be quiet and low key. Use the same phrases and sayings as you close the curtains, cover her etc"

Look for the signs - Like us, babies yawn when they start to get tired. I tell parents to try to act on their baby's first yawn - or at least by the third. If you miss the signs, certain types of infants such as Touchy babies (she has a chart of types of babies) quickly go into a meltdown"

She advocates using a dummy for a tired baby for the nap time and sleep times only, so they become used to the idea that they are going to relax and wind down with it.

I'd send you my copy of the book but am hoping to have another baby and can't give it up! One other great bit of advice she says somewhere is that bad habits take around 3 days of consistent behaviour to undo, so just persevere. We got rid of DS's dummy in 3 days of being strong together.

Another tip we were given was to forget trying to spend time with each other (DP/me) for a bit, because that will come. The most important bit at the moment is to get everyone to have some decent sleep. One evening, go to bed as early as you can face it, and let DP deal with the evening feed and bedtime, then you get to sleep from 7pm til 3am or so, whenever DD wakes up (8 hours sleep!). Then you take over and the next night DP goes to bed early and he does the 3am (Obviously only possible if you're expressing/ff). It's weird but you've just got to do whatever it takes to get through these next few weeks til things start to get better. Whatever happens decide on what you're going to try then both of you promise not to break the resolution and weaken, otherwise that'll just undo all the hard work.

x

Wow this thread is huge now! Everyone is being so nice!

I agree with Bean that the problem is "put your LO down"... not quite that simple, which is what we need to work on. Baby Whisperer was interesting, we have tried a few of her techniques, the EASY thing was a bit confusing because at night time, dd wanted to play after feeding which was not really the idea!

We went to the doctors today, I wanted to make sure that there was nothing physically wrong with dd, just to be certain. She said she's a healthy baby, which is great, but that she's probably hungry. Her weight has levelled off a bit (9lb 12oz last Tuesday and she was 8lb 3oz at birth) so the doctor has recommended we give her a formula feed at bed time for two weeks to see if it helps her settle. I am going to do it but I am a bit torn as I am really passionate about the BFing. Not of course that I intend to stop or reduce the BFing and fully intend to give her a little BF after the bottle of formula each night too. It just feels that it could be the start of a slippery slope. I am looking at it as a 2 week thing, after which the doctor said to go back and see her to see how we are getting on.

On the plus side, we both got a sleep this afternoon from about 4.30 til 7, and now dd is happy and smiley which is gorgeous and makes everything worthwhile!

Bean, how was your day today?
x

Could she be getting over tired, and therefore crying and not able to fall asleep - I know it sounds ridiculous but I know from experience it can happen.

Does she have any sort of routine?

If she has always cried - do you think bottles will really help?

Pookamoo - I was totally 100% pro BFing but I had to admit that it wasn't enough for my DS. I know it's natural, it's been done since time began, but we have to face facts that in the past children died through malnourishment. The reason this doesn't happen now is that we monitor babies and if they need extra help then clever people have made a product that is the next best thing to breast milk. I think it's time to stop beating ourselves up - hundreds of different factors, from diet to stress to shock can make our milk less effective. Being tired must have an effect too surely? If you are feeling under the weather maybe your body is diverting energy into looking after you not into your milk? Therefore I just can't see a problem with getting a bit of help, especially if you continue to BF and then ween her off the bottle when you feel more ready. That's what I think but I'll probably get told off!

pookamoo - I think the doctor is talking rubbish really - of course it will help her settle because all of her effort will be going into digesting - its not actually giving her any more calories.

What we did when a growth spurt was occuring was to collect the milk in shells from the other side to which I was feeding on throughout the day and then fed that after the last feed before bedtime - so 6.30/7pm - it was about an extra 1-2ozs.

And no - thats not true about the body diverting effort into your body and away from the milk - it does completely the opposite and prioritises the milk over you.

And bf babies do tail off at this stage - its absolutely classic - I would post in the brestfeeding topic for tiktok etc and see what she says.

Hi Lynette,
She does have a bit of a routine as in that at bedtime DH usually gets her into her pyjamas and night time nappy (we use washables in the day and a disposable at night) in her room, and then he brings her in to me in our room (where she sleeps) and I give her her bedtime feed in the dark, well with a very dim nightlight just so I can see what I'm doing! Then I swaddle her up and pop her in the cot by the bed. We have her big cot in our room with the drop side removed so she is right next to me.
I know for a fact she is overtired! I will have to take a picture of the bags under her eyes and post it on my profile! The problem seems to be that she gets nice and relaxed, but as soon as she is put down to sleep she gets wound up. Similarly if she drops off to sleep while feeding, she seems to panic when she wakes up. I guess I would panic too if I woke up somewhere different to where I fell asleep.

I really don't know if the bottles will help. The doctor said try it for two weeks and see. I feel a bit sad about it, as I said. The box of formula says "breastmilk substitute" on it, and I feel that it might as well say "mummy substitute" . I really don't have anything against formula feeding, but I am paranoid about my supply dropping - supply and demand etc. Surely I will need to increase my supply a lot if I am going to take over from the bottle in two weeks time.

DH is trying her with the bottle now but from the sounds of it she is getting pretty frustrated by it. This is breaking my heart

The charts are designed for ff babies - if a baby is having wet nappies and has a good colour it is not malnourished, even if it cries a lot.

I would second posting in Breastfeeding - you will get reliable, knowledgeable advice.

And try and phone a helpline. Health professionals notoriously give mis-guided advice to struggling bf mothers.

Will put a link to this thread in the bfing topic. I did ask there before, and everyone said it was a growth spurt, but then when she was weighed she had gone down to what she was at 6 weeks despite the extra long feeding.
Thanks.

pookamoo - please post on the breastfeeding section - if you dont want to do it you shouldnt really be doing it and it may well have an effect on your supply if you're not expressing at the same time.

It has the cumulative effect as well of baby falling to sleep and then you doing just one more ff feed in the day and before you know it you'll be in a place you might not have wanted to be.

i've only scanned the thread, sorry, but i just wanted to say that sometimes when babies get overstimulated and into that hysterical crying zone, it can be helpful to make the house silent and point them directly at a white wall for a while. don't even rock them, just hold them gently and let their brains de-fry a little.

Kate that's exactly what I'm afraid of. I never really planned to mix feed, and I wouldn't know what to do with all the sterilising and extra things you have to carry around with you and make sure you have - what if one night for example we are in a place where I am not able to give her the ff? What then? It doesn't seem fair.

To be honest, she's not taking to the bottle very well [secretly pleased emoticon].
Maybe I could express and DH could give her an extra bottle of ebm at bedtime for the two weeks. Will see what advice comes of the feeding topic thread.

Bean, how have you got on today?

I think it might help it she is swaddled during the day too(maybe with one arm out?) - I don't think it would confuse her.

I think your baby has what I call "baby boy syndrome" becuase it seems to me it's usually boys who behave like this and need constsant comfort from their mums.

I also have only scanned the thread sorry as it's getting big now.

I am going to suggest something that some people will love others hate and if anyone esle has recomended it sorry for repeating.

For me i found Gina Fords Contented Baby book to be fantastic and would definatley recomend it.

Following the routine in there gave me confidence in knowing what was wrong when Dd 1 and 2 cried. I used baby whisperer too but not as much - this had a good section on crying. It also meant that i knew that they had enough sleep and food, and both were sleeping through the night by 8 weeks old.

One thing i would say is that if you get to hung up on her timings then you can beat yourself up if you are running late or if baby isn't doing judt as she say's at that time. Just remember that sometimes the routine does have to be flexible.

Whatever you do i wish you all the best and hope things get easier really soon. X

Hello, sorry, I've only now got the chance to post (DH is doing the night shift tonight, which is great). Wow! Thank you, thank you, thank you for all this good advice and support. There are so many ideas to try here, once I've had a chance to read through and digest properly. My head is swimming slightly

Sunflower and pook - thank you for asking, I'm feeling more positive today - probably as DD slept well and because of all these lovely messages. I don't think it can be because of DD's day - despite sleeping 7 hours straight and then a bit more she was grumpy and crying all morning, so we decided to take her out this afternoon for a change of scenery (for us and for her), far enough away for her to get a good nap in the car (which she did, 1.5 hours). When we got there we put her in the buggy for a nice stroll and some fresh air (katestacks my buggy is a 3rdhand Graco something for which I'm very grateful (it was free) but is far too big and clunky to be in danger of giving too smooth a ride!), but within 15 minutes she was screaming hysterically so we ended up putting her in the sling. Naturally she fell promptly asleep for another hour and a half and woke up for a feed, then she howled/dozed all the way home. Once home, she screamed hysterically within half an hour of waking up and was inconsolable for 45 mins. Then she fell asleep for a while, having tired herself out screaming, woke up, threw up, and then was happy as Larry for an hour before it was time for bed. Argh, I don't understand!!

(that's 7 hours straight sleep last night, not this morning )