I thought things would be easier by now but they just seem to be getting worse, and I'm starting to feel desperate

[bean612]

My DD is 11 weeks old and such an unhappy baby. We had a really rocky start (29-hour labour ending in an emergency C-section, horrible problems with breastfeeding, hospital admission (her) at 10 days with a (luckily non-serious) skin infection) and I can't help feeling that's affected her. She cries so much, day and evening, often screaming until she's hysterical. The first few weeks were hideous but between about weeks 6 and 9 life started to regain some sort of shape and I felt like I was coping. But now she seems to be even unhappier, and my feelings of desperation from the early weeks are coming back.

I feel like I spend all my time either dealing with her crying, or anticipating it and trying to think of ways to soothe her. I used to dread the evenings (colicky type crying fits) but felt reasonably positive in the mornings, but now I wake up dreading the day ahead. DH has been fantastic, taking turns to get up with her in the night, so that we both get a good night's sleep every other night, but now I find that even when it's my night off I can't sleep properly - I'm horribly anxious and wake up with my heart pounding. It's getting to DH, too - he has ended up in tears twice in the last 10 days or so, trying to deal with an inconsolable, hysterical baby.

Everyone says it gets better at 12 weeks/3 months but I just can't bring myself to believe it and I think fear of getting there in 6 days' time and it not happening is making me feel even worse. We have tried colic drops, infant gaviscon, a (very expensive) swing, cranial osteopathy, all in a bid to find out what's 'wrong' with her and 'fix' it, but nothing helps. I'm at my wit's end. I know no one can offer a magic solution, but please tell me it's not always going to be this awful...

Maybe you're right and she's just very tired in the daytime. I spent hours walking, as DS felt calm in the buggy. If I stopped or stayed at home he screamed, but somehow the movement soothed him. Does that work for you? Makes you fit if nothing else..!

I had one who never had more than a 1/2 hour nap and one who would sleep 4 hours, wake up for a feed and go back down for another 4 hours.

I'd say a baby's need for sleep is as long as a piece of string - but I know I was never saintly enough to worry that No2 might be having too much - and she slept through the night at 6 weeks.

And she was swaddled day and night.

No3 was in between the two extremes.

Feel for you massively. My first child was like this. I think these random target ages ('everything changes at 8 wks/12 wks' etc) are really unhelpful. Babies are so different and there is no magic age that suddenly morph into angels. I did find that from about 4 mths onwards my son wasn't waking/crying quite so much...but he was still a very demanding baby (and is a very demanding 4 yr old!). Anyhow...you sound totally hacked off and I know that feeling. That desperation for some normality and calm to resume. I have no advice (sorry!) - I just rode it out, feeling very depressed, and eventually it did get better. Just wanted to offer my support and to say that you are not alone xx

Oh my God this has brought my son's early life back to me (and now TTC number 2 - eek!). Don't worry bean612 - honestly, we've ALL been there. my DS was a nightmare for the first 3 months at least - everyone kept saying it'll get better after 6 weeks, then 8 weeks, and kept moving the goalposts. Just believe that it will all settle down, but try a few tweaks first. Maybe this is all obvious but here's my thoughts...

Is she getting enough food? Of the right sort? Are you still bfing because I had to stop after 8 weeks as DS was just hungry all the time. Don't listen to HV about this because mine kept telling me to carry on BFing but as soon as I made the decision to stop she told me that she couldn't do it at all, and formula is fine, but they can't tell you that as they are meant to promote Bfing. A neighbour of mine has had her daughter on 12oz every 3 hours since she was about 2 weeks old because she's got an enormous appetite but she's not fat at all!

Can you get a break at all? Can anyone have her for an hour so that you can get a massage or haircut, nails done etc or just a soak in the bath? They have to take her away for a walk though otherwise you'll just hear her and won't relax.

Get used to the fact that people look at you when your child is crying! We all do it, but it's 99% of the time with sympathy as everyone's been there. If anyone has a problem with a crying baby they are horrible people so just stick your tongue out to them as they pass you, it helps.

When you have the odd few minutes of peace, talk to your partner/husband about how you both react when you're tired. It's easy to shout at each other and bang doors etc but it's cranking up the stress levels which isn't great for anyone (including your DD)

My son was terrible in the evenings. it was always his 'witching hour' and usually coincided with DH coming home from work which wasn't great. We brought his bedtime forward to 6pm in the end then made it later and later by 5 mins at a time to get it to a better time. Turned out he just needed about 14 hours sleep at night!

Anyway sorry to go on and on, but take a deep breath, give her a kiss and try and start again, concentrating on relaxing and enjoying the spells where she's happy and playing with you and/or a little toy. Try reading The Baby Whisperer as well if you can stomach one more help book. The author advocates the EASY approach... every 3 hours or so the cycle is Eat, Activity, Sleep, YOU. get into a nice cycle like that and it helps you plan your day a bit.

Sorry again for going on and on! Once I got started I couldn't stop xxxxxxx

My DD slept all day, it seemed, 2 or three long naps in between feeds. And all night. We were proper spoiled with her.

DS slept a lot less than DD.

You haven't said whether you're bf-ing or not, but if you are, please don't start down the 'not enough milk' route.

Bean, you poor thing! They need loads of sleep!! At 8 weeks we went camping and I noticed my little routine with her quite clearly. I just did feed, change then put in pram and wander about, she had lots to see and hear and smell and then when she got tired she fell asleep. She'd wake up, have a short amount of being awake and fine before crying to be fed. I'd then start the whole thing over. At home I used to put her in the pram in the garden so she could see the trees moving and the birds etc before drifting off to sleep. Fresh air works wonders.
Check out babycentre on internet for official sleep times, but I think they go to sleep 2 hours after they last woke up. (at some age anyway?!)
Remember babies cry when overstimulated too so you can do a big favour by putting a well fed, clean and warm crying baby to bed and leaving the room. This is when a lot of people have to get well out of earshot as it's hard to listen to crying if you think they're upset. If you think they're overstimulated and tired they need 10 mins to get to sleep. Interrupt too early and it won't work, leave any longer and they might need feeding/changing/layer of clothes on/off so the whole cycle starts over.
This 10 minute rule worked well for me as I used to cry when overtired in pregnancy so assumed that's why my baby was crying so let her be. Of course this may not be your baby's problem at all, in which case ignore me!!
It will get easier!!!!!!!!!!!

Smee, she has a dummy, and will only take it when she's tired (not when she's crying) or at least, she used to. Since her 8 week jabs she won't have it. The only thing that sends her to sleep is driving in the car or bf.
I don't have a car in the daytime though, and can't transfer her from car seat to cot as part of bed time routine so bf it is.

at people whose babies drop off to sleep. She was awake for a 3 hour walk in the sling yesterday. She dropped off after one of her feeds yesterday for 20 minutes.
Then up and at'em with huge bags under her eyes for the rest of the day until 11pm.
Is it really true that some people (most people?) can put their tired or grizzly baby down in a cot or pram or on a rug and they go to sleep?

One by one the things which used to work have stopped... rocking, carrying, tiger in the tree, the dummy, wrapping her up... nothing. She screamed for an hour last night because dh put her in the cot, sang to her, then just sat with his hand on her, all the usual bedtime routine stuff . After an hour i couldn't take any more and bf her. So began at 8pm the cycle of bf to sleep (swaddled), put in cot, wake up, cry, bf again etc until after 11pm. And I mean full on paddy type of crying, real tears and all, from waking, hardly a pause . This is why I can't leave her to cry "for 10 mins" as she showed no sign of abating after an hour.

She is overtired but seems afraid of sleep iyswim. Right now she is asleep at the breast but holding on tightly . I am letting her do it because I'm hoping she will get some of the rest she needs without the panic.

bean sorry for long post on your thread - i didn't mean to hijack but really needed to get this out!

Smee - no I'm afraid I had to teach mine to nap using one of the sleep methods - once its done its done though and we used white noise etc to help us then gradually took all of the things away until they were going down without.

And it never worked when they were young if I had left it too late and they had tipped over into overtiredness. I think some of the sleep solutions say they should go down at their first yawn/eyerub etc.

Will she really not nap while you're out in the buggy? Gosh thats hard

Pookamoo, I'm sure bean will be grateful to hear that it's not just her. Have you tried baby massage? just for a little bit every night after her bath to get her to relax? Might help, did help mine x

Just remembered - sun in the eyes in the daytime worked a treat. I know I'm probably horribly cruel but as soon as he gave in and fell asleep I turned him around or put up the parasol. It's sunny here today which is what reminded me x

Sorry my last post was for pookamoo and not smee obviously...was trying to rush it out before the school run doh...

Oh, I do remember spending most of the evening feeding my baby. I called it stocking up and she'd probably feed for as long as you said you had trouble last night. She'd fall asleep at boob so I'd move my boob to wake her and she'd carry on feeding. I'd keep doing this for as long as it took for her to want to let go. With tv on and food and drink nearby I could sit for hours!
My 10 min rule only worked for me if I left her completely alone - no hand on tummy (my logic was if someone was watching ME try to sleep I'd be mightily pissed off!).
Good luck!!!!!!!!!

Well she used to sleep in the pram and occasionally still does but she certainly has more stamina than me!
We have been doing a baby massage course which she really enjoys while we are there but it seems to freak her out after a bath!she thinks its a game at first which is ok but it doesn't take long for it to descend into tears and it's like the tears are a part of the routine!
Do all babies wake up crying every time? well i'd say 8 out of 10 times?

Mine did. It's a horrible way to wake up but he always did it. He sometimes still does now, from his daytime nap, and he's 2!

lots of good advice from mumsnetters as usual, having a baby (especially a crying one) is such a shock to the system, isn't it?

But remember pookamoo and bean, your life won't be like this forever. Try to cut out everything you don't need to be doing in the day to make sure you rest as much as you can. Housework can wait, a few ready meals (or even beans on toast for a week) never hurt anyone. One of the biggest problems with crying babies in my experience is that you become so sleep deprived that you can't be rational anymore.

Also don't feel that anything you do now to create space and sanity for yourself is permanent and can't be undone in a few weeks time (like the carrying in a sling bean) if it works, do it as much as you can! When the babies are happier and you've got a bit of breath back, then you can think about how to teach them to spend time on their own/sleep in their own cot or whatever.

I really feel for you and hope you can get some rest soon xx

Pookamoo, re the dummy - try dipping it in gripe water before offering it. It seems (in lots of babies)to create a strong urge to suck and was a godsend when DS got himself all worked up. Might be worth a try for you too Bean?

Another bit of advice I remember is that sleep breeds sleep. The more sleep she gets during the day, the better she'll sleep at night...sounds odd but it's true!
Not a help to you when it appears she won't sleep, but as you say, getting better at reading the cues will help you.
The problem with driving around or walking about outside until they sleep is that you don't get any rest yourself.
My DD would not, could not sleep or stand to be in her carseat. She just hated to be on her back and I think in part this is related to it perhaps being uncomfortable. Maybe more cranial osteopathy will help.
Try her on her side? Like I said putting DD on her front was like waving a magic wand, but I did only do it during the day initially while I hopped about anxiously worrying about breaking the rules .

Do you have a sheepskin? This is very warm and comfortable and both of mine loved napping on theirs.

Hi sounds familiar I had a rough start with ds(now almost 2) three day labor,section... he was born with meconium and skin infection had antibiotic for the infection...always felt it left him unsettled and traumatised,he NEVER slept alone even the first few days wouldnt sleep in moses basket...for the first few months he would cry a lot and wake up non stop through the nite...he was breastfed and on a dummy but took me sometime to realise he wasnt always hungry - he was waking in pain and also crying during the day due to thrush in his mouth.It was just on the sides of his gums so could be mistaken for milk. Maybe u should check baby out at gp it could be something simple like that and instead of guessing if its colic, hunger etc...u could get some medicine for it. Obviously with babies it could be many other things (but thrush is quite common especially ater antibiotics) but I found that everytime I thought I was gettng ds settled and into a routine he would become miserable again and waking more for feeds...unfortunately the thrush wouldnt shift despite numerous medicines,trips to the gp and giving up breastfeeding incase we were passing it back and forth...by about 7mths it just went away as he was old enough to fight the bacteria.Hope things get easier for u...its horrible when your baby seems upset no matter what u do and u arent getting a break. Most newborns sleep a lot and are barely alert...when theyre sick or not settled it makes it so much harder...but it does get easier I promise

forgot to say my ds was very alert and i probably "over stimulated" him LOL they do need more sleep than we think as someone mentioned...unfortunately with mine he wouldnt sleep unless in my arms...but the buggy and car were good to get him asleep too. Some babies are also more hungry and need solids earlier(not suggesting u give baby food before advised) I know my ds was starving before I started giving him a little baby rice just before 4mths. Sometimes there is nothing wrong at all either...if your baby's very windy&takes a long time 2 wind plus is a hungry baby then by the time uv finished a full feed(and theyve been winded and done a dirty nappy)theyre either tired again or hungry(especially aftr breastmilk which runs thru them so quick) so it seems like theres constantly something wrong and u never get a break.Hope things improve im sure ur doing a great job !

I would agree about the sleep but think that if baby seems hungry then they should have more milk feeds and not solids - there are far more calories in milk than the solids.

Bean - Im going to say this very quietly as Im not a fan of her at all and not a fan of leaving babies to cry AND I'll be shot down in flames!!! but Gina Fords book did help me to get an idea about how a baby's day might be in terms of napping - the feeding advice in it is wierd and imo unrealistic but the 'routines' give you an idea of amounts of sleep etc that they need.
Oh and I agree with sleep begets sleep. Also when other mums appear to have calm babies and look serene you have just caught them at a good moment i bet!

hiya, not sure i ave much advice but i have loads of sympathy and little bit of ope to offer you. my ds was exactly as you describe. i was going crazy, seriously knocked my confidence and i dreaded every day with him. i was so sure there was something wrong with him, back and forth to doctors, health visitors, cranial osteopath. tried differentcolic remedies, gripe water, colief, lactose free milk, reflux medication, you name it, we tried it through desperation! nothing worked. sorry to tell you that there may not be a magic cure which i was so desperate for however it is still worth pestering your doctor for such medication and any help as you never know if there is some intolerance/ reflux problem.

all i can tell you is that my ds was just bloomin miserable!! he cried the moment his eyes opened when he woke up, never ever laid down and played with anything, wouldn't go in his pram or car seat, he just wanted to be walked around everywhere preferably with white noise to soothe him, we found the extractor fan worked well when he was little til he developed a fear of it at 6 months [hmm}! after that i still paced around with him, he wouldn't ever be still! i can't count the number of tmes i paced around our kitchen listening to Savage Garden music trying to calm him with me and him in tears. It was so difficult and i felt all the anxiousness and dread that you do right now.

all i can tell you is that it does get better. looking back i think that's all i wanted to hear... i needed someone to tell me that it would get better. IT DID. but i can't tell you how heart breaking it was when i got to 6 weeks/12 weeks/ 6 months etc all the times when people said it would magically fall into place and everything would get better. it was such a gradual process and even until 9 months i would cry everyday with him.

He's 18 months now and whilst he is very strong willed and shows huge frustration with things he is adorable. very loving and i am so proud that i didn't listen to people who told me to leave him to scream. i couldn't. i walked around with him/ sang to him/ rocked him and i feel so pleased that that time is over! He's still very highly strung and sensitive in certain situations but believe me it gets so much easierand so much better when they can do things and communicate more.

DS only really cheered up at 11 months when he could walk but he did get a lot better once crawling. Now he's talking he's getting more confidence everyday and we have such a good relationship. so different from the early days! good luck xxx

oh and yes, every 2 hours a baby of this age should usually need a nap but it does vary. my ds only napped for 30 mins at a time so he was always grouchy and tired! just to let you know he now settles himself at night for 12-13 hours and has a lovely 2 hour nap in the day so it does get so much better!

pookamoo i caould never put my ds to sleep drowsy and have his go to sleep alone!!!! he wound up instead of down when he got tired and had to be 'put' to sleep by feeding or rocking to music. he never ever just dozed off himself til 12 months. and yep he woke up crying everytime, still does sometimes though !