I thought things would be easier by now but they just seem to be getting worse, and I'm starting to feel desperate

[bean612]

My DD is 11 weeks old and such an unhappy baby. We had a really rocky start (29-hour labour ending in an emergency C-section, horrible problems with breastfeeding, hospital admission (her) at 10 days with a (luckily non-serious) skin infection) and I can't help feeling that's affected her. She cries so much, day and evening, often screaming until she's hysterical. The first few weeks were hideous but between about weeks 6 and 9 life started to regain some sort of shape and I felt like I was coping. But now she seems to be even unhappier, and my feelings of desperation from the early weeks are coming back.

I feel like I spend all my time either dealing with her crying, or anticipating it and trying to think of ways to soothe her. I used to dread the evenings (colicky type crying fits) but felt reasonably positive in the mornings, but now I wake up dreading the day ahead. DH has been fantastic, taking turns to get up with her in the night, so that we both get a good night's sleep every other night, but now I find that even when it's my night off I can't sleep properly - I'm horribly anxious and wake up with my heart pounding. It's getting to DH, too - he has ended up in tears twice in the last 10 days or so, trying to deal with an inconsolable, hysterical baby.

Everyone says it gets better at 12 weeks/3 months but I just can't bring myself to believe it and I think fear of getting there in 6 days' time and it not happening is making me feel even worse. We have tried colic drops, infant gaviscon, a (very expensive) swing, cranial osteopathy, all in a bid to find out what's 'wrong' with her and 'fix' it, but nothing helps. I'm at my wit's end. I know no one can offer a magic solution, but please tell me it's not always going to be this awful...

Pookamoo, have you thought about a sleep clinic? I have not a clue if they're any good, but have seen them mentioned on here a few times. I think they're supposed to be gentle, ie not advocates of controlled crying or anything.

• if it makes you feel any better, my DS's four now, but I still stare in wide eyed wonder at people in cafes with babies who go from a lively coo to easy sleep in their arms

Hi Bean a very infrequent poster here but the memory of those first few weeks means i had to post. It will get better, hang in there. Try not to blame yourself and what you are or are not doing.
All babies are different. DS1 was prem em csection i was poorly etc he fed little and slow to gain weight didnt sleep much and it was tough for 3-4 months. At the time i blamed myself. Roll forward to DD2 she was a completely different baby, slept through from 8 weeks and fed well and every 4 hours she was an easy text book baby. I didnt do much differently ok 2nd time round so more relaxed but it made me realise the tough time i had with DS1 wasnt my fault or something i was doing wrong. My wise old mum veteran of 4 kids says to me that "you dont take all the credit for your children so dont take all the blame" and i try and remember that when DS1 who after his unsettled first months turned into a gorgeous baby but has now hit 3 and can be a horror!
On the swaddling front my saving grace was the swaddle i had read a book by this man i had seen on Richard and Judy!
( His book and DVD literally saved my sanity! The Happiest Baby on the Block: ) His theory was you need to treat the 1st 3 to 4 months like a 4th trimester and almost wean them off the womb. Babies like swaddling as it reminds them of the womb. DS1 was only happy when swaddled so he sent the 1st 5 months swaddled! Literally he would have a feed, have 15 mins kicking about and then I would swaddle him and he would lie there happy and awake for a bit, sleep for a bit then feed again! Once i got this pattern figured out life got a bit more predictable but the relentlessness of it still was very tough.
Be easy on yourself it is tough but it does get better! And I bet you are a far better Mum than you give yourself credit for!

What made me feel better was having a friend who had a very placid first baby - one of those babies who'd fall asleep in her mother's arms without so much as a murmur. Same friend then had a second, who started life as troubled and restless as my son had been. Horrible for her as it was such a shock after her first baby, but it was almost like a blinding light for me, as it made me finally accept that it wasn't my fault.

Banthambabes' swaddling book reminded me of the book I read on 'high need' babies.

If you look at www.askdrsears.com you'll find loads of reassurance and advice on how to deal with this sort of child, as you also will if you just Google 'high need baby.'

I remember his book on infant sleep, and it was totally the other end of the spectrum from the 'let them cry' brigade.

Now he seems to have expanded online so there's no need to buy the books.

Sorry for radio silence - I was out all afternoon and haven't been able to type since getting back, and now can't post properly as DH is in the kitchen rocking DD under the extractor fan in an effort to stop her crying... But thank you so much, Mumsnetters for all this, and your support. Pookamoo please don't worry, you're not hijacking "my" thread at all - we're in this together, as you say!

really sorry but i haven't read through all the posts and i know this goes against the grain of most MNers but i swore by having both DS's in a routine. SIL DD1 had problems abit like yours and the day they put her onto a sructured routine all was fine.

I know this may not be your kind of thing but i thought i'd mention it....

Take care

Really feel for you, hang on in there. Agree with Smee and others, my first was calm and quiet and number two (DS) is a bit of a screamer, some babies are more difficult. With DS who is now 14 weeks, the crying has improved by putting him down to sleep in his cot or out in his pushchair as soon as he has been awake for one hour - he just can't seem to handle being awake any longer than this.

Noonbear, I'm not against routines at all but it's always seemed to me that DD is so "difficult" (I hate using that word about her, but for want of a better one) that I can't possibly imagine her responding to one. But maybe that means she needs one all the more...?? For ages I have wondered about putting her to bed early. At the moment she goes to bed when we do, about 10.30 or 11pm - although when she actually goes off to sleep is a different matter - largely because I don't want her to go to bed early and her night's sleep to be over by 5am. But maybe it doesn't work like that. Can anyone offer any advice on this? Thank you!

I would just like to reassure you that an 11 week old baby makes a really tiny noise even when crying flat out.

Obv it sounds terribly loud to the parents but truly if you were to walk with your baby crying in the pram it would not be deafening for passersby - so please don't be put off from taking your baby out for walks in the pram because you are worried what people might think.

Take care and good luck

Haven't read all of the posts but would like to say I have found Baby Secrets by Jo Tantum, very useful.

Even if routines aren't for you then at least to learn how often a young baby should ideally spend sleeping/feeding/awake.

I was surprised at how often they should spend napping and even more surprised when I tried putting DS down for naps as often as suggested - and he slept (and cried less when he was awake )

I prefer not to think of it as "a routine" so much as a way of ensuring DS gets all his naps and feeds in that he needs in a 24 hour period. Prior to this he slept for hours only to wake for hours, hungry, fractious and crying.

Hope things get better for you x

PS there is such a thing as overtired!

If th

My DS had a night where he went to sleep at midnight, woke at 2.30am, fed then cried til 4.40am, woke at 6am and fed and cried til 1pm (7 hours awake!!!) when he dropped into an exhausted sleep until 5pm.

Then he woke, fed and cried for hours again.. Awful.

He needed/needs regular naps, feeds and awake-time through the day, is what I found.

Maybe think of it as what have you got to lose by trying a routine, because it can't be worse than what you have now!

Beans, try and think of her as 'high need' rather than 'difficult.'

And have a look at 'six ways to get a high need baby to go to sleep and stay asleep' on the www.askdrsears.com website.

I think everyone has a routine even if they dont realise it...but some people are more lucky that they can have a reasonable more stable routine,before having ds I worked in childcare so knew what I was doing, I havent done things much differntly from my mum or sister(who has a dd 5mths older)but children are all different...my sisters baby slept through from very early on and was an angel of a newborn easy to get into a routine...whereas mine slept so little compared to what he should have...and made me break all my own rules...I found him sleeping on his side and with me helped but I guess no one has all the answers...I would suggest just stick with what u are doing...follow your instincts...make sure ur partner gives u a break sometimes or ul go insane...maybe it is just the way some babies are born,remembr birth is traumatic and theyre just getting use to this world...I couldnt do "controlled crying" even if it meant never getting a proper nights sleep ever again. It gets easier my ds is a very settled 23 mth old now..he stil isnt a great sleeper at nite but hes very happy...there were times in the first few months I thought something must be wrong but they will settle in their own time...unfortunately its not always the first 6weeks as some people say

I think 2 hours is quite long to be awake at this age. My 12 wk old dd is tired about an hour and a quarter after waking and even sooner if she has only had a 40 minute nap (which is normal). If you are able to wear your dd in a sling for a long time for a couple of days you might get a sense of her natural sleep pattern. Supposedly, the trick to getting the benefits of the sling is to put the baby in when they are happy - not to wait for them to start grizzling.

Bean
you wrote "At the moment she goes to bed when we do, about 10.30 or 11pm - although when she actually goes off to sleep is a different matter - largely because I don't want her to go to bed early and her night's sleep to be over by 5am. But maybe it doesn't work like that."

Do you try to keep her awake then?

I did not have a set routine for my DC, I let them sleep when they needed sleep and feed when they needed fed. After a while they kind of settled themselves into a routine of sorts.

DD at that age was going to bed around 8pm, wakening once in the night then sleeping till around 6am for a feed, then we dozed a while.

"2 hours is quite long to be awake"

Yesterday (and this is just an example as I can't think further than that!) dd was up at 5am (having fed for 45 mins or so every 2 hours through the night), fed until 6 and was asleep at 6.05. Then up at 6.45, and awake, feeding, crying, until about 11.30am. 10 minute sleep, then awake from 11.45 to 3.30pm, feeding, crying, also smiling a bit. FINALLY she slept from 3.30 til 6ish. Then she was up til 2am. Asleep until 4.30, and has been up since then.
She has just dropped off on me while feeding. I daren't move.
We have doctors at 10.40am as rang hv yesterday and nobody called me back. Last week hv was worried about pnd due to exhaustion.
I'm a bit scared to admit I'm not coping very well.

She's awake again.

Jesus, Pook, you must be on your knees.

I don't have any advice because I was blessed with babies who slept reasonably well, but just wanted to give you a ((hug)).

Bean - I dont think it does work like that - regarding the sleep - she is probably waking up more because she doesnt go down earlier tbh.

bean and pook - I would agree with the other people who say that a sleep routine would probably help you - not a feeding one note. Although when you start sleeping more regularly then the feeding will naturally fall into place as well apart from growth spurts and teething etc.

pook - do you think she is feeding so often because she wants to go to sleep? If she is crying when you are holding her and it has been two hours since she last slept I would put her down in her cot or the moses basket or whereever and walk away - I know this sounds terrible and I wouldnt suggest it if she was happy when awake but if she is crying anyway and you are feeling like you say you are then I dont think it will hurt - and she may well fall asleep.

You really need to be honest with your hv as well as to how you are feeling - theres no shame in it - lots of MNers have been there.

DH came home last night and I told him about this thread and he reminded me that we were given a baby swing which worked MIRACLES!!! Something like this www.kiddicare.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/productdisplayA_88_10751_-1_14055_52464_10001_14055
Could probably pick one up on ebay? I just strapped DS in and with the gentle rocking and the noise of the motor working, he was away with the fairies within minutes. Worth a try? Maybe a friend has one you could try out? x

And I just read giantkatestacks and definitely agree - the more sleep they have the more they relax so don't stress out about putting her to bed earlier, it sounds like she needs it. Just keep in mind that she is a person just like you and me and think how you feel about sleep. I know I sleep better when I have had several good sleeps in a row, not when I am overtired and crank, and when I am relaxed and wound down. x

Mme Lindt - no, no, no, I don't keep her awake! I just meant that often it takes her a long time to settle - she falls asleep and then wakes up after 10 mins, we soothe her back to sleep then she wakes up after another 10 mins, etc, and this can sometimes go on for a while. Devongirl - thank you for the swing idea. We tried a (very expensive) one, the Graco Sweetpeace Soother, which she hates! It rocks, vibrates, plays womb music, nature sounds etc, but she didn't like it on any of the settings

In fact we did put her to bed earlier last night and she slept really well - 7 hours, her longest stretch yet. But this morning she is really grumpy, and that seems to be the pattern: good night's sleep, grumpy, fractious mood; bad night's sleep: better mood (though it's all relative). Why?!

PS. pookamoo, I really, really feel for you. That sounds horrendous. I hope your HV is a good one? Luckily mine has been really supportive. Do be honest with her, as katestacks says, so she can give you as much help/support as you need xx

Hi Bean how are you feeling today? And how is dd? Just had a thought that may have already been said but i don't think there is a magic 'cure' but babies respond to you doing the same things over and over (e.g singing the same songs at nap time etc) and some do respond really well to routine, Just a word of reassurance the most 'high need' baby I know has turned into the most lovely toddler.

I agree with bean pookamoo, be honest with the HV. They won't think you're not coping, only that you need some help. Your lo's got into a cycle of being overtired. If she's waking (sounds like often) every 45 minutes- an hour, that's to do with natural sleep cycle. We're in light sleep after 45 mins, most babies just go back into another cycle of deep sleep and keep going, but yours is waking up. If you step back from all this and think rationally (like that's easy ), what you need is to stop that - ie find a way to get her over that. A HV should see that and try and find a way to think of new ideas - I really do think you should ask about a sleep clinic though - your lo sounds like she's got really stuck, so you need expert help to switch the pattern. Let us know what HV says.

• beans, I think routines are good, but also can be counterproductive. They're only good if they're the right one for your baby. Don't whatever you do try and make your lo fit into one if they don't. That way madness lies..

I think a loose routine with regards to napping etc might help, but it's not as simple as "put your lo down for a nap at X time" with DD, because in the daytime she'll only sleep in the sling (she used to sleep in the buggy, too, but lately she seems not to like it any more, I don't know why). So it's a question of slinging her up and going out for a long enough walk to get her into a deep sleep (about 20 mins) before contemplating coming home. Which I don't mind doing, but it doesn't always work. I suppose the easiest thing would be to try and make sure she gets 5 hours of nap time during the day overall, but not worry about when and for how long (so could be 5 naps of 1 hour, or 2 naps of 3 hours and 2 hours). But then I could end up spending the whole day trying to get her to nap (or nap more), and what do I do if she doesn't?

The thing about putting her to bed earlier - what I meant was if the most she can do is 7 hours (her longest so far), which would seem reasonable given her age, if she goes to sleep at 8pm, she'll have finished her stretch at 3am (or a lot earlier, given that 7 hours is extremely rare). Obviously I'd try to put her back down again after a feed, but she never sleeps as soundly or as long after her main stretch, usually 2 hours at the most (regardless of how long the main stretch has been, if you see what I mean).