6 year old - is this normal? i really need your help pls.

[1SadMummy]

Please please help as I have totally reached rock bottom with my 6 yo ds.

From the age of 2 he has refused to take me seriously if I tell him off - it started with him kicking me in the stomach every time I changed him (while I was pg with dd) and he just laughs if I get angry.

Now, at 6, he is much better but still awful. If I need to stand and talk to someone, pay in a shop, whatever, he is incapable of just standing quietly next to me. he gets totally giddy and silly and behaves like a much younger child. This goes on every single week. Today a friend popped round and because i was talking to her he ran round and round the garden, in the snow, with no shoes on. I lost my temper when I got him inside and he was packed off to bed early and told not to get out of bed (every single night he is out of bed about 15 times). He has so far been out of bed 5 times tonight already, smacked every time and still gets out of bed. we have tried everything - reasoning, taking away toys/treats/days out, shouting, smacking, crying (me) and nothing helps. I really do think there is something wrong with him but he is fine at school so is it just me?

What do you do if you ground them, laptop? We take away treats/trips out etc but is there anything else?

I just don't see why it has to be so confrontational. He is getting out of bed because you are making it a good game for him. Children aren't able to verbalise the subtleties that may actually be the basis of their behaviour so it's up to us as parents to look just slightly deeper than simply reacting punitively.

He is up out of bed partly because it's a guaranteed 'game', but originally what made him? Does he find it hard to settle alone? does he need another story/someone to sit quietly with him/a chat/a cuddle/a different bedtime routine/a CD playing/a special nightlight to look at.....the possibilities are endless.

If a child finds that they want to get out of bed, there are many more ways of dealing with it than either punishing or endlessly returning to bed.

I think you need to make it far less "us against them", personally.

My philosophy is ' dont sweat the small stuff'
Like a few other posters have said focus on the really imporrtant aspects of his behaviour that need changing.
Boys are silly, fidgety, giddy.
I very rarley take mine shopping because it is more hassle than it is worth.
If he runs around the garden with no shoes on , like poster above, does it really matter?
It doesnt snow very often.

When he kicked you in the stomach at 2, when changing him, what did you do, just out of interest? How did you deal with it and what happened?

What would you do Leo9?

He has bedtime stories and cuddles,

He has a nightlight.

Grounding for us means that they are not allowed to go out and play with their friends.
We are lucky to live in a quiet cul de sac full of other boys, so it is a real hardship for them if they have to stay in when all the other boys are out playing.

When he kicked me I tried ignoring him.

When that didn't work (i.e. a couple of weeks later) I said 'No!' He laughed.

When that still didn't work I would put him in his playpen and walk away.

we live in the country laptop.

IME, 6-y-o boys can be v challenging. My 6.8-y-o DS certainly is!

I can't face going into a list of his sins at the moment, but he goes in for pretty much anything that's foul/annoying/disobedient/offensive. I do all the positive praise stuff and am generally a model of calm behaviour (I rarely shout), and it seems to make no difference.

The only thing I've found that makes a difference is finding something that he really, really likes/wants to do, and letting him do it only if he behaves himself. We recently discovered computer games in our local library; I've deliberately never introduced the DCs to things like this, but I decided to let DS have a short go. He was instantly hooked, so I came home and let him have a go at the same games on my computer. I then told him he could have 20 minutes a day playing them if - and only if - he fulfilled various 'good behaviour' challenges on a daily basis (with particular emphasis on speaking to other members of the family with courtesy and respect, and keeping his hands and feet to himself). Not surprisingly, it has had the desired effect thus far.

I did make sure he was hooked before using it as a carrot, and it's taken a while to find something he's bothered about, but it is working at the moment. Phew.

(BTW, I wouldn't ever send a child to their bedroom for bad behaviour. I do think that bedrooms are special places, and bed shouldn't be associated with punishment. Maybe I am more of a woolly liberal than I thought...)

Well, I confiscated his train set tonight (his most prized possession). No effect.

Sadly reassuring to hear you have similar problems though, dottoressa

Ah yes, 'tis always reassuring to hear that you are not the only one. There's nothing I like better than other people recounting the sins of their 6-y-o DSs!

And Dogma - I like the idea of revenge when he brings a girlfriend home. Would never have thought it possible for someone to make me laugh on this thread but you did - thank you!

Just a further thought ... did confiscation of his train set have anything to do with him having abused his train set in any way? (i.e. did he throw it/hit someone with it/etc, etc)? I find it helps to keep punishments in line with offences - so only if he abuses his toys or uses them as weapons do they get confiscated. Otherwise my DS would definitely become angry at the injustice of it all and would see me as the big meanie (even if he didn't actually care about losing his toys), and we'd be even worse off than before.

I think the computer thing works because it was specifically set up as a reward for good behaviour. There's also a novelty value to it at the moment, so I may have to find something else that he really, really wants to do at some point! I rather dread that, though, because it's taken me ages to find one thing he wants to do enough to behave for it...

I know you've said you give out stickers etc, but how about focussing on one thing first ie staying in bed and trying hard to ignor the rest. Really, really use your best acting skills to look like you haven't even noticed when he behaves badly, if he's in danger or about to hurt someone just remove him or them and don't make eye contact.

Then, sit him down without dd, but with dh and tell him that you know he'd really like a whatever (with my 6 year old it'd be a ds game) and you know a way he can get one. He has to stay in bed at night and you will operate a three strikes an dyour out policy. If he gets out of bed he gets a strike, get three and that's it, but if he doesn't get three then he gets a big tick on his chart and after x ticks he gets the 'whatever'.

We've recently done it with 6 yr old ds who was driving us mad during mealtimes. I honestly didn't think he'd be bothered, but he's taken huge pride in ticking and it's worked a treat.

The other thing is to pick your arguments, I am the worst for this one. Sometimes, when you think about it later you realise that the behaviour wasn't inappropriate for a child of that age, but you were getting stressed. I have to take my own advice here and remember to bite my lip sometimes and let them be children.

I see your point re confiscating, dottoressa.

Catmandu - we have done reward charts just for staying in bed, and dd has happily ticked off all her boxes and got the promised reward, while ds has lasted maybe one or two nights at most

I also understand about ignoring unless it's dangerous etc., but what would you do if you took your 6yo ds into a shoe shop and he refused to walk in anything but a really silly walk when the assistant was trying to judge the fit of his shoes. What do I do then?

No, you're not the only one! ds2 is 7, and pretty challenging at times (though showing signs he may just be growing out of some of it - there is light at the end of the tunnel ).

I think Leo9 has given some really good advice. Ds2's behaviour has coincided with dh working away so it's been a struggle a lot of the time on my own. Someone suggested I started giving ds2 some jobs/responsibilities to make him feel more grown up, and it's had a big effect on him.

I also decided to cut back on the drama at bedtime as we were getting into a horrible downward spiral. If ds2 is not ready for sleep at his lights out time (8.30), which happens a couple of times a week, I tell him he can read, and that if he wants me to settle him he has to let me know by 9, as that's my bedtime and once I'm in bed I won't get out again. He invariably comes in at 8.55, as he doesn't like to go to sleep on his own, ready to settle immediately. Letting him think he has the control has made a big difference.

That sounds good, tangarine. The main problem I have at bedtime is not getting him to sleep, but just to stay in bed. He runs around upstairs and dd calls out to tell me she is trying to sleep but he is annoying her.

Ah, all horribly familiar. The shoe-shop thing is where I'd resort to what's essentially bribery ("if you don't walk properly, we won't have time to go and get some Smarties on the way home - but if you do it within the next two minutes, we will..."). Probably not recommended, but can work in desperate situations!

I did manage to take DS and DD (4) to town recently - not something I'd normally do, for obvious reasons - and rewarded them with a dolly mixture for each shop they were good in. They got extra ones for doing kind/helpful things, so DS spent a lot of time holding doors open, greeting assistants, and picking up things that other people had dropped .

As I say, I don't think this is generally recommended - but we did get round town without the usual foulness!

Dolly mixtures it is then, Dottoressa!

I only take them to the shops when I really really have to (like school shoes) - it's just too awful otherwise. On their own they are both fine, positively good company, but take them out together and you are setting yourself up for an afternoon from hell, so I can see it's attention seeking with possibly rather a lot of egging each other on thrown in.

have you tried your local children's centre to see if they are running any parenting programmes? sorry - don't take it the wrong way - it's just they are really useful for exploring this kind of thing. I did one a while back and it challenged a lot of things I thought of as 'positive praise' but weren't really, and the group was v supportive as well.

is he strong willed? I'm guessing he's got used to dramatic gestures from you and has learnt not to show his feelings, so when you confiscate something he is able to pretend he's not bothered etc. ds 1 is like that now - makes it harder to discipline him. Not sure about this idea but could you get your dd a lock for her room them let him roam around and ignore it for the next week or so and see if he got bored? like I say, not sure about that really. I let mine wander round - the rule here is - don't come down and disturb mummy or she'll go ballistic.

I did do a parenting course run by my local health centre when I was pg with dd and I try to use those principles.

Can't really put a lock on dd's door though.

I know evenings are supposed to be grown up time, but could you try writing a few off and sitting upstairs with ds (presuming he won't run around if you are there)? I know that sounds like "giving in" to him, and if you are like me it would go against the grain (when ds2 and I lock horns neither of us wants to give way). But if it's company and attention that he wants (which was what ds2 wanted at the peak of his naughtiness), it's far preferable to give the attention by sitting quietly in his room (with gritted teeth as I'd rather be somewhere else ) than by having a screaming match, tears, useless punishments etc (I am talking about my situation here, not yours btw) and losing an evening that way instead.

Wouldn't that confuse him? He does get so much of our time already - we have never used childminders and I am a SAHM and dh doesn't work long hours so when he is not at school he is either with me, dh or both.

As another example, when I stopped in my car and jumped out to talk to someone the other day, he ended up running round and round the car - in traffic. I had left him in the back seat (with child locks on) but he climbed over and out the front - to get attention presumably. I see other mothers leave younger children in their cars while they pop into shops